Permission granted to grow GM potatoes in Ireland

kupus · 01-08-2012 07:13PM

Channel Zero wrote: »

Food speculation by hedge funds and investment banks plays a major role. The likes of Goldman Sachs are pushing prices through the roof ever since the commodities market was deregulated.

Edited to add info on this.

And to add to your link I would like to add this one:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/08/us-universities-africa-land-grab

Its about a recent land grab (started in the noughties by China) that has been happening in Africa with USA hedge funds and universities forcing small farmers off their lands.........Interesting read
Im not into CT, but if you do add these two links together something is not quite right....

I'm still not fine with Ireland producing GM Potatoes after reading all thru this thread, and as Tipp man and a few others have said Ireland actually produces too much food, and worldwide, food can be grown to feed the world many times over, but as with everything else money and politics get in the way,
Remember hedge-funds and Corporations have multi-billion dollar bonuses to pay out, and they rarely back wrong investments. So they lobby big time to get what they want.

Next time you go to your favorite restaurant look at other peoples tables and see how much is thrown out.

Colmustard · 01-08-2012 07:20PM

kupus wrote: »

And to add to your link I would like to add this one:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/08/us-universities-africa-land-grab

Its about a recent land grab (started in the noughties by China) that has been happening in Africa with USA hedge funds and universities forcing small farmers off their lands.........Interesting read
Im not into CT, but if you do add these two links together something is not quite right....

I'm still not fine with Ireland producing GM Potatoes after reading all thru this thread, and as Tipp man and a few others have said Ireland actually produces too much food, and worldwide, food can be grown to feed the world many times over, but as with everything else money and politics get in the way,
Remember hedge-funds and Corporations have multi-billion dollar bonuses to pay out, and they rarely back wrong investments. So they lobby big time to get what they want.

Next time you go to your favorite restaurant look at other peoples tables and see how much is thrown out.

No it can't, the world food supply is very very vulnerably, we are actually living through a coming crisis. The north american drought will mean food will increase by 5% some estimate 10% if the drought continues. that is alright here, we will moan about it but not go hungry. But other parts of the world will.

The whole Arab spring movement was caused by food inflation and next year food inflation will be worse.

China and hedge funds are buying up African and Ukrainian land because they know that in the future food will become a strategic commodity that is if it is not one already.

suicide_circus · 01-08-2012 08:15PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

We have one of the oldest and best agriculture traditions in the world.

We do? News to me. Care to elaborate on that?

Silene · 11-08-2012 07:21AM

Here's a recent story about Bt corn. (Someone said earlier in the thread about it being a good idea).

Syngenta Charged for Covering up Livestock Deaths from GM Corn

Biotech giant Syngenta has been criminally charged with denying knowledge that its genetically modified (GM) Bt corn kills livestock during a civil court case that ended in 2007 [1].

Syngenta’s Bt 176 corn variety expresses an insecticidal Bt toxin (Cry1Ab) derived from the bacterium, Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) and a gene conferring resistance to glufosinate herbicides. EU cultivation of Bt 176 was discontinued in 2007. Similar varieties however, including Bt 11 sweet corn are currently cultivated for human and animal consumption in the EU. . . .

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Syngenta_Charged_for_Covering_Up_Livestock_Deaths_from_GM_Corn.php

Atomicjuicer · 11-08-2012 07:36AM

The naivety is sickening.

If anyone knows of protests etc. being organised please post it on boards!

Colmustard · 11-08-2012 09:04AM

With the North American drought food prices across the board will rise by up to 5% next year, some say as much as 10%, if this North American drought continues into next year then we will get another round of food inflation. This is a potential world crisis. So as to those in this thread who say the world produces enough food. This proves it doesn't and the whole system is very volatile, what if this drought goes on for 10 years with annual price increases.

If you put the whole of Ireland under grain, Idaho is still 20 times bigger and virtually under grain and that is just one of the states in the American and Canadian world grain bread basket. That puts it into perspective, the world's dependence on North America.

So Monsanto please develop new faster growing drought resistant and cheaper grains to produce, we really need them now.

kupus · 11-08-2012 10:28AM

Colmustard wrote: »

With the North American drought food prices across the board will rise by up to 5% next year, some say as much as 10%, if this North American drought continues into next year then we will get another round of food inflation. This is a potential world crisis. So as to those in this thread who say the world produces enough food. This proves it doesn't and the whole system is very volatile, what if this drought goes on for 10 years with annual price increases.

If you put the whole of Ireland under grain, Idaho is still 20 times bigger and virtually under grain and that is just one of the states in the American and Canadian world grain bread basket. That puts it into perspective, the world's dependence on North America.

So Monsanto please develop new faster growing drought resistant and cheaper grains to produce, we really need them now.

Yes its volatile as the game is RIGGED, what part of rigged do you not understand?
In 2000 the food commodity market was deregulated, the eu has a cap on the overproduction of food in every country, Hedge Funds have taken the market and changed it into something like the banking situation.
Less food = more profit............
as with everything in life follow the money and you find the answers you are looking for.
Food production is turning into a monopoly business and coming from Ireland we all know what happens when you have a monopoly business.

Colmustard · 11-08-2012 10:37AM

kupus wrote: »

Yes its volatile as the game is RIGGED, what part of rigged do you not understand?
In 2000 the food commodity market was deregulated, the eu has a cap on the overproduction of food in every country, Hedge Funds have taken the market and changed it into something like the banking situation.
Less food = more profit............
as with everything in life follow the money and you find the answers you are looking for.
Food production is turning into a monopoly business and coming from Ireland we all know what happens when you have a monopoly business.

What part of drought do you not understand, there will be less food for sale next year because of the North American drought. Speculators will effect the price of food, but not by much. They don't have to do a thing, there is less around the price will increase.

Atomicjuicer · 11-08-2012 11:56AM

Hey Colm - the yanks will be fine - they've got GM right?

Or could the reason for the drought be BECAUSE of their abuse of the environment?

No, course not. Let's just trust capitalism - its clearly the way of the future for everything.

EVERYTHING.

steddyeddy · 11-08-2012 12:14PM

kupus wrote: »

Yes its volatile as the game is RIGGED, what part of rigged do you not understand?
In 2000 the food commodity market was deregulated, the eu has a cap on the overproduction of food in every country, Hedge Funds have taken the market and changed it into something like the banking situation.
Less food = more profit............
as with everything in life follow the money and you find the answers you are looking for.
Food production is turning into a monopoly business and coming from Ireland we all know what happens when you have a monopoly business.

Do you not understand gm isnt about food production. Its also about the decreased need for pesticides and anything you can imagine. GM foods are also breed with extra vitimans which are scarce in some third world countries. Golden rice for example has saved the sight of a million at least.

Colmustard · 11-08-2012 12:25PM

Atomicjuicer wrote: »

Hey Colm - the yanks will be fine - they've got GM right?

Or could the reason for the drought be BECAUSE of their abuse of the environment?

No, course not. Let's just trust capitalism - its clearly the way of the future for everything.

EVERYTHING.

Off course not, perhaps the drought is been caused by global warming but that is not the only reason for droughts. It has happened in America before man even arrived there It will happen again. North America was once under ice that to will happen again.

But it is possible to make a grain that will grow under any conditions, the only limits in this tech is our imaginations. Remember it is still in its infancy.

steddyeddy · 11-08-2012 12:41PM

Ill also add that the people saying Ireland has some really green reputation that gm will ruin. Ask ecologists outside Ireland and youll see that we have a terrible reputation for being green. Were notorious for our use of poisons to eliminate "pests". When the sea eagles arrived in Ireland around a hundred farmers protested at Kerry airport. We are not a green eco sensitive country by any strecth of the imagination.

steddyeddy · 11-08-2012 12:43PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

We do? News to me. Care to elaborate on that?

Well we are famous for our beef worldwide. When I was in america grass feed beef seemed to be big deal over there. Over here its the standard. As regards the age of our agriculture-we are one of the best lactose digestors in the world. This indicates that we have beem drinking milk for a long long time.

Atomicjuicer · 11-08-2012 01:17PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Ill also add that the people saying Ireland has some really green reputation that gm will ruin. Ask ecologists outside Ireland and youll see that we have a terrible reputation for being green. Were notorious for our use of poisons to eliminate "pests". When the sea eagles arrived in Ireland around a hundred farmers protested at Kerry airport. We are not a green eco sensitive country by any strecth of the imagination.

Couldn't disagree more but I love your logic regardless! "eh apparently our rep is bad so eh, cant hurt to make it worse"

Along with the nuke proponents I argued into the ground a few months before Fukushima I'll say it to you.

You have blood on your hands for carelessly advocating that which will cost countless lives and add to long term human suffering.

andrew · 11-08-2012 01:25PM

Woah, conspiracy theories, conspiracy theories everywhere. Saying GM is bad because monsanto is like saying computers are bad because of Microsoft. Monsanto do not have a monopoly over the genetic modification of stuff in general.

People who say we have enough foods are missing the point. Firstly, we might not always have enough food, and secondly the idea behind GM isn't just to produce more, it's about producing the same amount with less pesticide/fungicide/water etc as has already been mentioned.

The existence of speculative markets in food isn't what causes the price of foods to rise. A lack of food causes the price of food to rise. If GM means more food it'll also mean cheaper food.

marshbaboon · 11-08-2012 01:28PM

We've been genetically modifying crops since we first started cultivating & breeding plants. This is a 10,000 year old idea.

Colmustard · 11-08-2012 01:34PM

andrew wrote: »

Woah, conspiracy theories, conspiracy theories everywhere. Saying GM is bad because monsanto is like saying computers are bad because of Microsoft. Monsanto do not have a monopoly over the genetic modification of stuff in general.

People who say we have enough foods are missing the point. Firstly, we might not always have enough food, and secondly the idea behind GM isn't just to produce more, it's about producing the same amount with less pesticide/fungicide/water etc as has already been mentioned.

The existence of speculative markets in food isn't what causes the price of foods to rise. A lack of food causes the price of food to rise. If GM means more food it'll also mean cheaper food.

Speculators can have an effect, so can subsidies and market interventions , but over all the biggest effect on the price of food is supply, then the cost of fuel.

We have no control or excess in fuel production, but we can increase food production, next year we will have food inflation and fuel inflation. People will actually starve, but not in the western world were all these stupid organic back to the Earth pressure groups have an opinion and opposition to GM and industrial farming.

paddy147 · 11-08-2012 02:42PM

Say good bye to the bees and butterflys then,when GM Crop fields spring up everywhere.

Cardinal Richelieu · 11-08-2012 02:43PM

Colmustard wrote: »

Speculators can have an effect, so can subsidies and market interventions , but over all the biggest effect on the price of food is supply, then the cost of fuel.

We have no control or excess in fuel production, but we can increase food production, next year we will have food inflation and fuel inflation. People will actually starve, but not in the western world were all these stupid organic back to the Earth pressure groups have an opinion and opposition to GM and industrial farming.

That's the nub, how many people can actually afford to do a full organic shop in the supermarket each week?

Cardinal Richelieu · 11-08-2012 02:48PM

paddy147 wrote: »

Say good bye to the bees and butterflys then,when GM Crop fields spring up everywhere.

Did you find that report yet?:rolleyes: If you have less weeds in your crop of course your going to have less bees and butterflies who incidentally lay eggs that give us caterpillars that munch there way through the crop unless you spray insecticides. But your yield will increase with less competition from weeds.

CAP subsidies encourage farmers to provide wildlife boundaries of wildflowers around fields that will encourage bees.

paddy147 · 11-08-2012 02:50PM

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Did you find that report yet?:rolleyes: If you have less weeds in your crop of course your going to have less bees and butterflies who incidentally lay eggs that give us caterpillars that munch there way through the crop unless you spray insecticides. But your yield will increase with less competition from weeds.

CAP subsidies encourage farmers to provide wildlife boundaries of wildflowers around fields that will encourage bees.

So is GM a good thing or a bad thing then??

Honest question here.

Cardinal Richelieu · 11-08-2012 03:14PM

paddy147 wrote: »

So is GM a good thing or a bad thing then??

Honest question here.

Its good, the potential of GM development of plants is endless, just some

improved drought resistance,
ability of plants to produce there own nitrogen reduces run off of artificial fertilizers into rivers and farmer costs.
improved disease resistance
medical treatments- NUI Maynooth were looking at tobacco plants that would contain chemicals that would help to treat HIV in the 3rd World.

How much have you read about GM apart from newspapers?

Einhard · 11-08-2012 03:33PM

I'd be cautiously wlecome of specific GM foods, but feel that there needs to be more informed debate on the matter. Much of the public knowledge of GM foods is based on hysteria about Frankenfoods and the like. Challenges to GM foods are emotive, vague, and quite often nonsensical. Take Darina Allen's letter to the Irish Times recently- there was not a shred of evidence to back up her claims. If she were to make such unsupported claims about anything else she'd be laughed out of it.

Like others, I don't want to see farming becoming industrialised, or a select few companies taking control of the sector to the detriment of individual farmers. However, whether one cheers Monsanto or thinks it is corrupt and ruthless is really irrelevant to the safety or otherwise of GM foods.

I'm not all tha knowledgable on Monsanto, but some of the claims made against the company here and elsewhere are a little unbalanced. For example, much has been made about Monsato sueing farmers for breach of copyright. As if taking legal recourse is something for which one should be condemned. Why shouldn't Monsanto seek to defend its legal rights? The company is instead being condemned for doing so, and protrayed as some vicious Goliath unfairly attacking innocuous, innocent Davids. Yet, a cursory read of the Mnsanto Canada Vs Schmeiser would indicate that it the small farmer was the one very much in the wrong. Schmeiser claimed that a large area of his crops had been accidentally pollinated by GM canola, and that he was within his rights to reap this and use it as seed stock for further seasons. He would, therefore, get all the benefits of the GM crop without having made any contribution to the cost. I think most reasonable people would find that a tad unfair, and Monsanto well within their rights to challenge this, but yet Schmeiser is the hero and Monsanto villified. And furthermore, the Canadian courts threw out Schmeiser's claims about accidental pollenation- the implication was that he actively purloined the crop for his own advtantage. And so, here we have a man who stole patened crops, and planted them for his own benefit, and somehow he's the hero? It's a strange one.

Furthermore, Schmeiser had massive support from around the world, so this isn't the case of the plucky, underfunded underdog that sme would like to make out.

My name is URL wrote: »

Shane Morris is a well known industry shill and lobbyist, and has been condemned by the UK parliament for his attempts to mislead the public and silence those who oppose him.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/business-papers/commons/early-day-motions/edm-detail1/?session=2007-08&edmnumber=425[/QUOTE]

Not sure how things work in the UK, but that motion was backed by 28 MPs. That's less than 10% of the total, so it hardly counts as a parliamentary condemnation.

Atomicjuicer · 11-08-2012 05:15PM

paddy147 wrote: »

Say good bye to the bees and butterflys then,when GM Crop fields spring up everywhere.

And then they use American drought as an excuse - and people still want to copy their food production methods?

Colmustard · 11-08-2012 05:27PM

paddy147 wrote: »

Say good bye to the bees and butterflys then,when GM Crop fields spring up everywhere.

The bee are dying from a HIV type disease that is caused by the mixing of different bee populations that never met before or a fungus.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CFAQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgrist.org%2Farticle%2Ffood-2010-10-14-the-new-york-times-gets-it-wrong-on-bees%2F&ei=_YUmUL9glIWFB8SpgYgB&usg=AFQjCNEUvOMi5NtuAGMzBn4qn46LgQyuHg&sig2=rscgUkbr-q-yq4n3cUpRig

Colony collapse disorder has nothing to do with GM.

As for the butterflies, it would be hard to pin down what is causing their decline, but they are under the same environmental pressures as everything else as we further infringe on their habitat.

Frogs are also dying in very large numbers, worldwide, they are not sure why, pesticides environmental pollutants no-one is sure. You would worry about frogs because they have been on this earth a very long time. They survived everything the Earth could throw at them except perhaps us.

I haven't seen a frog in years, you use to see them all the time.

paddy147 · 11-08-2012 05:38PM

Im just a normal average person who is trying to understand the pros and cons to it all.

Its hard to know who to belive in the "good v bad" debate.

Atomicjuicer · 11-08-2012 05:54PM

paddy147 wrote: »

Im just a normal average person who is trying to understand the pros and cons to it all.

Its hard to know who to belive in the "good v bad" debate.

If it has the potential to be bad then they can test it in someone else's soil.

Colmustard · 11-08-2012 06:08PM

Atomicjuicer wrote: »

If it has the potential to be bad then they can test it in someone else's soil.

But Ireland is perfect, we still have a big potato blight problem in this country and no bad will come of it. The GM potato blight resistant plants will not cause a day of the triffids.

Cardinal Richelieu · 11-08-2012 06:31PM

paddy147 wrote: »

Im just a normal average person who is trying to understand the pros and cons to it all.

Its hard to know who to belive in the "good v bad" debate.

I like to consider myself the same as I say most posters here do. It's your personal responsibility to educate yourself on the topic. From what I can see you have referenced the decline in bees and butterflies on the posts you have made on GM so you obviously decided your Anti-GM but when asked for further info you have provided a quote from the Green Party not the actual study. Basically that's as good as telling us what you heard the bloke down the pub say. We all know how politicians particularly like to pick and choose which parts of reports to quote so its advisable to read the report they quote.

Surely the normal average person would be aware the Green Party has a vested interest in opposing GM in Ireland. The organic industry in Ireland they represent makes a tidy profit at the expense of the normal average person who can't afford to buy a weekly shop of organic goods.

Silene · 11-08-2012 07:41PM

Colmustard wrote:

But it is possible to make a grain that will grow under any conditions, the only limits in this tech is our imaginations. Remember it is still in its infancy.

If people want to experiment in a lab, or grow stuff for testing in a closed environment, that's one thing. Planting seeds out in nature, with the intention of selling to the general public is another thing entirely. If you yourself want to consume this stuff, produced from a technology "still in its infancy", you can find a way to do so. Why not move to the US where you can already get all the GM/GE food you want?

Whatever about other countries, Ireland has no need whatsoever for genetically engineered crops. We have no vitamin deficiencies here, no weather problems. What is actually happening is that the likes of Monsanto want to spread this seed around the world as fast as they can. Because if they wait a few more years, results of studies currently underway will show beyond any shadow of doubt that GM/GE foods are detrimental to human and animal health. The link I posted earlier today already shows this. Worth reading for anyone who is unaware of the dangers.

Permission granted to grow GM potatoes in Ireland

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