Australian racism?

poppyvally · 27-07-2012 10:49PM

daveyeh wrote: »

Is the commonly used australian term 'Abbo' racist?

I'm going there next week and don't want to be chased down the street by, eh, the native aboriginies.

Your more likely to be chased by a drunken Paddy

Yamanoto · 27-07-2012 11:07PM

Kooli wrote: »

The racism in Australia towards aboriginals is something I found pretty shocking. It's casual, it's not taboo, it's considered a 'normal' attitude to hold and express in regular conversation with people you don't know that well (i.e. you haven't established their viewpoint).

Kinda analogous to Travellers in Ireland so.

old_aussie · 28-07-2012 02:46PM

Never heard of the term abbo ????, or did you mean abo?

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/abo-is-not-just-an-abbreviation-of-aboriginal/

Mickeroo · 28-07-2012 03:20PM

Plenty of people from outside of ireland find the casual racism towards travellers just as shocking as this.

Nodin · 28-07-2012 03:22PM

old_aussie wrote: »

Never heard ........

Speak of the Devil.......

Mountainlad · 28-07-2012 03:30PM

What's the deal with the surge in racism threads recently? Is it anti-racism week/month?

daveyeh · 30-07-2012 01:23PM

bennyineire wrote: »

Yes the racism towards the "Abbo's" in Oz is shocking and I was quite shocked to hear all walks of Australian society speaking so casually racist towards the aboriginal people. Strangly they do not have this view towards other nationals, but to be honest and before Irish people get on there high horse ask yourself this question "what are your true feelings towards travelers".
I find the Irish attitude to travelers to be practically the same as the Aussies attitude to Aboriginal people

Really? I've heard some not too complimentary names for people of chinese & vietnamese origin from aussies. Just not as casual as their comments towards aboriginals.

Duggys Housemate · 30-07-2012 01:28PM

Yamanoto wrote: »

Kinda analogous to Travellers in Ireland so.

Not that travellers are a race but I have never heard the term knacker in polite company.

EDIT: nor ever used it.

Duggys Housemate · 30-07-2012 01:30PM

Mickeroo wrote: »

Plenty of people from outside of ireland find the casual racism towards travellers just as shocking as this.

Nonsense. Most people outside Ireland see Irish Travellers as Irish, sometimes they associate us with travellers. The term pikey is used in normal conversation in England. Just look the Gypsy Wedding series, wouldn't be commissioned here.

Private or anonymous conversations are different.

Bad Panda · 30-07-2012 01:36PM

From urban dictionary:

1. abbo
abbo, black aussi fella who wants a dolla m8

So just assume they want some spare change if they approach you for anything and you'll be grand.

slippy wicket · 30-07-2012 01:41PM

Ghandee wrote: »

Aboriginal people were some of the nicest folk I encountered in my life. FACT.

Calling them 'Abbos' certainly wouldnt sit well with them.

But wht I find hardest of all to believe, it was only very, very recently that it was deemed illegal to shoot (and kill) an aboriginal person.

Cant find a link, but I believe it to be sometime around 1965 or so?

Which, is quite shocking tbh.

Afaik they were not thought of as human before that,or perhaps fully human.

partyguinness · 30-07-2012 01:46PM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Nonsense. Most people outside Ireland see Irish Travellers as Irish, sometimes they associate us with travellers. The term pikey is used in normal conversation in England. Just look the Gypsy Wedding series, wouldn't be commissioned here.

Private or anonymous conversations are different.

Being Irish and living in England, I like to distance myself from Pikies at every opportunity.

I joke that we just sent them England to pave driveways and to upset mddle England by squatting on their greenfield sites as punishment.

I am also very quick to emphasis that we (the native Irish) hold them in even lower regard than the English...:D...so cracking jokes about them does no t offend me. In fact I have 10 more jokes to go with it.

Sad to admit but there is an element of "They are not Irish". Strange in that "Gypsy" wedding programme, they were either Irish Travellers or Romany. What about English Travellers!! The vast majority were born in England.

Duggys Housemate · 30-07-2012 01:51PM

partyguinness wrote: »

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Nonsense. Most people outside Ireland see Irish Travellers as Irish, sometimes they associate us with travellers. The term pikey is used in normal conversation in England. Just look the Gypsy Wedding series, wouldn't be commissioned here.

Private or anonymous conversations are different.

Being Irish and living in England, I like to distance myself from Pikies at every opportunity.

I joke that we just sent them England to pave driveways and to upset mddle England by squatting on their greenfield sites as punishment.

I am also very quick to emphasis that we (the native Irish) hold them in even lower regard than the English...:D...so cracking jokes about them does no t offend me. In fact I have 10 more jokes to go with it.

Sad to admit but there is an element of "They are not Irish". Strange in that "Gypsy" wedding programme, they were either Irish Travellers or Romany. What about English Travellers!! The vast majority were born in England.

Yeah, but the point is that foreigners are hardly shocked by our "casual racism" if they use the term pikey in common conversation more commonly than we use knacker. the rest of the world see Irish travellers as ethnically Irish.

Micky Dolenz · 30-07-2012 01:54PM

Kooli wrote: »

The racism in Australia towards aboriginals is something I found pretty shocking. It's casual, it's not taboo, it's considered a 'normal' attitude to hold and express in regular conversation with people you don't know that well (i.e. you haven't established their viewpoint).

So although Aussies tend to shorten almost every word to a cute diminutive like that, I'd hazard a guess that it's racist.

I too was often left wide mouthed by some converststions I was in. The taxi drivers were the worst for it I found.

IrishAm · 30-07-2012 02:02PM

partyguinness wrote: »

I am also very quick to emphasis that we (the native Irish) hold them in even lower regard than the English...:D...so cracking jokes about them does no t offend me. In fact I have 10 more jokes to go with it.

Travelers are native Irish too.

Mickeroo · 30-07-2012 02:04PM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Yeah, but the point is that foreigners are hardly shocked by our "casual racism" if they use the term pikey in common conversation more commonly than we use knacker. the rest of the world see Irish travellers as ethnically Irish.

The fact that you can't see the similarities in the attitudes towards aborigines in australia and the attitudes toawards travellers here kind of proves my point.

It's the whole "well knachers are different of course" attitude that's ingrained in a lot of us.

The english are more familiar with it than most, and I wouldn't consider them foreigners anyway. You're right that the rest of the wworld probably don't see them as a minority (though I would say cultural more than ethnic) at all. I tried to explain travellers to a swiss girl once after an american guy asked me if pikies actually exist (after he saw Snatch of course

). She just couldn't get her head around it but still found the whole attitude pretty derogatory.

And it is casual racism, no two ways about it. I'll willingly admit I'm guilty of it myself on occasion.

Yamanoto · 30-07-2012 02:10PM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Not that travellers are a race but I have never heard the term knacker in polite company.

Nor have I. (though in my experience, the term 'knacker' was always reserved for trackie-wearing ne'er do wells, rather than travellers).

I'd imagine many have witnessed conversations in which travellers were casually decried and disparaged and it was viewed as socially acceptable - often among 'polite company', folks who'd otherwise balk at the first hint of a racist or xenophobic utterance.

Duggys Housemate · 30-07-2012 02:11PM

Mickeroo wrote: »

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Yeah, but the point is that foreigners are hardly shocked by our "casual racism" if they use the term pikey in common conversation more commonly than we use knacker. the rest of the world see Irish travellers as ethnically Irish.

The fact that you can't see the similarities in the attitudes towards aborigines in australia and the attitudes toawards travellers here kind of proves my point.

It's the whole "well knachers are different of course" attitude that's ingrained in a lot of us.

The english are more familiar with it than most, and I wouldn't consider them foreigners anyway. You're right that the rest of the wworld probably don't see them as a minority (though I would say cultural more than ethnic) at all. I tried to explain travellers to a swiss girl once after an american guy asked me if pikies actually exist (after he saw Snatch of course ). She just couldn't get her head around it but still found the whole attitude pretty derogatory.

And it is casual racism, no two ways about it. I'll willingly admit I'm guilty of it myself on occasion.

If the rest of the world don't see them as a minority then where does that leave the claim that they would be shocked by our "racism". As I said knacker is less commonly used in Ireland than Pikey in England. Someone using the term Pikey is hardly in a position to complain about the Irish use of derogatory terms.

Most people who come to Ireland see travellers as Irish ethnically, and far from blaming us as racists tiwards them they either end up blaming Irish people for the anti- social behaviour of travellers as Irish people, or they blame the State not dealing with that anti-social behaviour.

Duggys Housemate · 30-07-2012 02:15PM

Yamanoto wrote: »

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Not that travellers are a race but I have never heard the term knacker in polite company.

Nor have I. (though in my experience, the term 'knacker' was always reserved for trackie-wearing ne'er do wells, rather than travellers).

I'd imagine many have witnessed conversations in which travellers were casually decried and disparaged and it was viewed as socially acceptable - often among 'polite company', folks who'd otherwise balk at the first hint of a racist or xenophobic utterance.

Decrying anti-social behaviour is not racism, and it's certainly not casual racism, the casual use of the word Knacker would annoy me, a specific complaint about anti-social behaviour wouldn't.

In general I don't talk politics much in real life, so I may be missing something.

dttq · 30-07-2012 02:19PM

The best thing about Australia for me is how far it is away from me.

Mickeroo · 30-07-2012 02:25PM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

If the rest of the world don't see them as a minority then where does that leave the claim that they would be shocked by our "racism". As I said knacker is less commonly used in Ireland than Pikey in England. Someone using the term Pikey is hardly in a position to complain about the Irish use of derogatory terms.

Most people who come to Ireland see travellers as Irish ethnically, and far from blaming us as racists tiwards them they either end up blaming Irish people for the anti- social behaviour of travellers as Irish people, or they blame the State not dealing with that anti-social behaviour.

I can't quantify wither way which word is used more where, and I never said anything about the english in the first place anyway....

At the end of he day all either of us is talking about is purely anecdotal so we'll never get anywhere in that regard. The main point I'm trying to make is the general attitude towards travellers here is just as racist as the attitude towards aborigines in australia. Imho at least.

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Decrying anti-social behaviour is not racism, and it's certainly not casual racism, the casual use of the word Knacker would annoy me, a specific complaint about anti-social behaviour wouldn't.

I agree with you there regards decrying anti-social behaviour not being racism. The use of the terms knacker or pikey and the broad generalisations (which are commonplace in my experience) that all travellers are anti-social/can't be trusted etc. is what I would consider to be casual racism.

partyguinness · 30-07-2012 02:44PM

What does my head in is the agenda put forward by Traveller Rights groups and the like.

You will notice that they insist on calling themselves "an ethnic minority" and a distinct race.

This is very deliberate agenda.

A gob****e High Court judge in the UK classed them as a separate ethnic minority a few years back and hence they are entitled to all sorts of entitlements under Human Rights.

As things stand they are better protected in the UK than in Ireland. Hence this constant "blah blah ethinic minority race crap".

Be aware!

Yamanoto · 30-07-2012 02:47PM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Decrying anti-social behaviour is not racism, and it's certainly not casual racism

I made no reference to folks passing critical comment on instances of anti-social behaviour DH, that's an element you introduced yourself and an altogether different matter. What I'm referring to is blanket assertions concerning travellers, made in the course of normal conversation - dialogue oft-peppered with pejoratives and adhering to pre-conceived notions of who and what the traveller is. The result of which, to use the vernacular, is to tar all with the same brush.

IrishAm · 30-07-2012 03:02PM

partyguinness wrote: »

What does my head in is the agenda put forward by Traveller Rights groups and the like.

You will notice that they insist on calling themselves "an ethnic minority" and a distinct race.

This is very deliberate agenda.

A gob****e High Court judge in the UK classed them as a separate ethnic minority a few years back and hence they are entitled to all sorts of entitlements under Human Rights.

As things stand they are better protected in the UK than in Ireland. Hence this constant "blah blah ethinic minority race crap".

Be aware!

The Irish government should troll the **** out of Pavee Point. They should propose affirmative action like policies to help travellers gain employment.

If they get ethnic status we will never integrate time. The government should link child benefit in with the childs attendance at school. Unexplained absence from school for three days, fine. No child benefit for that month. You want to take your child out of school at 14? No problem. No more child benefit, but.

Dr Turk Turkelton · 30-07-2012 03:16PM

Think we need a new name for Travellers because the only time they seem to travel is when they are in trouble with the law.

Pikeys is a good name for them but the English beat us to that one.

Have heard smokies before but to be honest I would rather they smell of smoke than what they actually smell like(a mixed bag of crap).

Anyone here got a good name for them?

Mod note: user banned

Yamanoto · 30-07-2012 03:21PM

Cuchulainn1. wrote: »

Think we need a new name for Travellers because the only time they seem to travel is when they are in trouble with the law.

Pikeys is a good name for them but the English beat us to that one.

Have heard smokies before but to be honest I would rather they smell of smoke than what they actually smell like(a mixed bag of crap).

Anyone here got a good name for them?

If you want the thread closed, keep up the good work.

Kooli · 30-07-2012 03:42PM

Mickeroo wrote: »

I can't quantify wither way which word is used more where, and I never said anything about the english in the first place anyway....

At the end of he day all either of us is talking about is purely anecdotal so we'll never get anywhere in that regard. The main point I'm trying to make is the general attitude towards travellers here is just as racist as the attitude towards aborigines in australia. Imho at least.

I agree with you there regards decrying anti-social behaviour not being racism. The use of the terms knacker or pikey and the broad generalisations (which are commonplace in my experience) that all travellers are anti-social/can't be trusted etc. is what I would consider to be casual racism.

Yeah I agree. The nature of the racism against both groups is really similar. But I still think the frequency of it is greater in Australia. And actually boards.ie seems to be a hot-bed of anti-traveller sentiment. Very few people in my 'real life' would talk that way so casually.

le la rat · 30-07-2012 03:47PM

RikkFlair wrote: »

Just make sure you're referring to the band

woooooooooooooooooooooooo wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo woooooooooooooooooooooooooooo nature boy

Australian racism?

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