daveyeh wrote: » Is the commonly used australian term 'Abbo' racist? I'm going there next week and don't want to be chased down the street by, eh, the native aboriginies.
Kooli wrote: » The racism in Australia towards aboriginals is something I found pretty shocking. It's casual, it's not taboo, it's considered a 'normal' attitude to hold and express in regular conversation with people you don't know that well (i.e. you haven't established their viewpoint).
old_aussie wrote: » Never heard ........
bennyineire wrote: » Yes the racism towards the "Abbo's" in Oz is shocking and I was quite shocked to hear all walks of Australian society speaking so casually racist towards the aboriginal people. Strangly they do not have this view towards other nationals, but to be honest and before Irish people get on there high horse ask yourself this question "what are your true feelings towards travelers". I find the Irish attitude to travelers to be practically the same as the Aussies attitude to Aboriginal people
Yamanoto wrote: » Kinda analogous to Travellers in Ireland so.
Mickeroo wrote: » Plenty of people from outside of ireland find the casual racism towards travellers just as shocking as this.
Ghandee wrote: » Aboriginal people were some of the nicest folk I encountered in my life. FACT. Calling them 'Abbos' certainly wouldnt sit well with them. But wht I find hardest of all to believe, it was only very, very recently that it was deemed illegal to shoot (and kill) an aboriginal person. Cant find a link, but I believe it to be sometime around 1965 or so? Which, is quite shocking tbh.
Duggys Housemate wrote: » Nonsense. Most people outside Ireland see Irish Travellers as Irish, sometimes they associate us with travellers. The term pikey is used in normal conversation in England. Just look the Gypsy Wedding series, wouldn't be commissioned here. Private or anonymous conversations are different.
partyguinness wrote: » Duggys Housemate wrote: » Nonsense. Most people outside Ireland see Irish Travellers as Irish, sometimes they associate us with travellers. The term pikey is used in normal conversation in England. Just look the Gypsy Wedding series, wouldn't be commissioned here. Private or anonymous conversations are different. Being Irish and living in England, I like to distance myself from Pikies at every opportunity. I joke that we just sent them England to pave driveways and to upset mddle England by squatting on their greenfield sites as punishment. I am also very quick to emphasis that we (the native Irish) hold them in even lower regard than the English...:D...so cracking jokes about them does no t offend me. In fact I have 10 more jokes to go with it. Sad to admit but there is an element of "They are not Irish". Strange in that "Gypsy" wedding programme, they were either Irish Travellers or Romany. What about English Travellers!! The vast majority were born in England.
Kooli wrote: » The racism in Australia towards aboriginals is something I found pretty shocking. It's casual, it's not taboo, it's considered a 'normal' attitude to hold and express in regular conversation with people you don't know that well (i.e. you haven't established their viewpoint). So although Aussies tend to shorten almost every word to a cute diminutive like that, I'd hazard a guess that it's racist.
partyguinness wrote: » I am also very quick to emphasis that we (the native Irish) hold them in even lower regard than the English...:D...so cracking jokes about them does no t offend me. In fact I have 10 more jokes to go with it.
Duggys Housemate wrote: » Yeah, but the point is that foreigners are hardly shocked by our "casual racism" if they use the term pikey in common conversation more commonly than we use knacker. the rest of the world see Irish travellers as ethnically Irish.
Duggys Housemate wrote: » Not that travellers are a race but I have never heard the term knacker in polite company.
Mickeroo wrote: » Duggys Housemate wrote: » Yeah, but the point is that foreigners are hardly shocked by our "casual racism" if they use the term pikey in common conversation more commonly than we use knacker. the rest of the world see Irish travellers as ethnically Irish. The fact that you can't see the similarities in the attitudes towards aborigines in australia and the attitudes toawards travellers here kind of proves my point. It's the whole "well knachers are different of course" attitude that's ingrained in a lot of us. The english are more familiar with it than most, and I wouldn't consider them foreigners anyway. You're right that the rest of the wworld probably don't see them as a minority (though I would say cultural more than ethnic) at all. I tried to explain travellers to a swiss girl once after an american guy asked me if pikies actually exist (after he saw Snatch of course ). She just couldn't get her head around it but still found the whole attitude pretty derogatory. And it is casual racism, no two ways about it. I'll willingly admit I'm guilty of it myself on occasion.
Yamanoto wrote: » Duggys Housemate wrote: » Not that travellers are a race but I have never heard the term knacker in polite company. Nor have I. (though in my experience, the term 'knacker' was always reserved for trackie-wearing ne'er do wells, rather than travellers). I'd imagine many have witnessed conversations in which travellers were casually decried and disparaged and it was viewed as socially acceptable - often among 'polite company', folks who'd otherwise balk at the first hint of a racist or xenophobic utterance.
Duggys Housemate wrote: » If the rest of the world don't see them as a minority then where does that leave the claim that they would be shocked by our "racism". As I said knacker is less commonly used in Ireland than Pikey in England. Someone using the term Pikey is hardly in a position to complain about the Irish use of derogatory terms. Most people who come to Ireland see travellers as Irish ethnically, and far from blaming us as racists tiwards them they either end up blaming Irish people for the anti- social behaviour of travellers as Irish people, or they blame the State not dealing with that anti-social behaviour.
Duggys Housemate wrote: » Decrying anti-social behaviour is not racism, and it's certainly not casual racism, the casual use of the word Knacker would annoy me, a specific complaint about anti-social behaviour wouldn't.
Duggys Housemate wrote: » Decrying anti-social behaviour is not racism, and it's certainly not casual racism
partyguinness wrote: » What does my head in is the agenda put forward by Traveller Rights groups and the like. You will notice that they insist on calling themselves "an ethnic minority" and a distinct race. This is very deliberate agenda. A gob****e High Court judge in the UK classed them as a separate ethnic minority a few years back and hence they are entitled to all sorts of entitlements under Human Rights. As things stand they are better protected in the UK than in Ireland. Hence this constant "blah blah ethinic minority race crap". Be aware!
Cuchulainn1. wrote: » Think we need a new name for Travellers because the only time they seem to travel is when they are in trouble with the law. Pikeys is a good name for them but the English beat us to that one. Have heard smokies before but to be honest I would rather they smell of smoke than what they actually smell like(a mixed bag of crap). Anyone here got a good name for them?
Mickeroo wrote: » I can't quantify wither way which word is used more where, and I never said anything about the english in the first place anyway.... At the end of he day all either of us is talking about is purely anecdotal so we'll never get anywhere in that regard. The main point I'm trying to make is the general attitude towards travellers here is just as racist as the attitude towards aborigines in australia. Imho at least. I agree with you there regards decrying anti-social behaviour not being racism. The use of the terms knacker or pikey and the broad generalisations (which are commonplace in my experience) that all travellers are anti-social/can't be trusted etc. is what I would consider to be casual racism.
RikkFlair wrote: » Just make sure you're referring to the band
