Permission granted to grow GM potatoes in Ireland

Rango555 · 26-07-2012 08:49PM

Conflats wrote: »

Also the thing about the indian suicides think with you head about it now at the start of that article it says seeds cannot be saved, Yes that is correct and why do you think the seeds are sterile?
I will answer it for you to make sure you get the picture im about to paint
The reason the seeds are sterile and cannot grow is because the anti-GM lobby wanted the plants in such a way they cud not produce crosses in the natural environment to stop their fears. So the argument your putting forward is flawed and in fact created by the very ones who now complain about this

That is simply not true... the reason the seeds are sterile is so the corporations can sell the seeds again year after year. Are you seriously trying to say that Monsanto et al are going to patent their seeds (and actually have bought up a lot of seed companies to take their seeds off the market) and then let people have a free supply forever once they have bought them? Your argument is naive....

Ellis Dee · 26-07-2012 08:53PM

i heard an Israeli scientist is trying to splice some bee genes into a cow.
They're trying to make a land flowing with milk and honey.:):)

Conflats · 26-07-2012 08:55PM

Rango555 wrote: »

What people? That rice is not currently available for human consumption. Read the article posted in reply to steddyeddy. Yet another straw man.

I am against GM crops in it's current form (I have not stated otherwise) as it has NOT helped humanity in any way. All the claims about increased food yield are incorrect... all the claims about less need for chemicals are incorrect... all the claims about reducing costs to farmers are incorrect.

I grow crops organically on 3 acres... I change varieties regularly to avoid diseases etc... the very same way that we have done for centuries.

GM crops will never be acceptable to me in their current form because of companies like Monsanto. They are solely driven by profit and are doing their best to ensure the entire world has to come to them to grow food rather than any of the strawman benefits that you have argued thusfar.

If there was ethical regulating and controlled developement of GM crops I would support it... instead we have huge corporations destroying the food supply of millions of people and the land that it is grown on while we "wait" for them to get it right... I'm not buying it.

Have you ever thought of using the opinion to actually try change the way gm is regulated?

The changing varieties thing sure its all great on small scale but when the consumer in the supermarket wants a certain type of potato and you give them one they dont want what happens then? farmer is gone belly up,

You haven't listened to the actual scientific arguments put forward by me in relation to the increasing use of pesticides but to state the so called straw man as you call it- resistance this is a naturally occurring fact of life GM will not stop natures ability to overcome the challenges man puts in its way, it happened in this country in 2002 with a disease called septoria on wheat which failed overnight, if you understood scientific principles which i have mentioned to you, you will see why these problems are there instead of insisting they are wrong.
Google enhanced metabolism and see, also try pest and disease resistance, selection pressure you will find millions of peer reviewed journals on these topics to prove these issues are what would happen with conventional varieties too.

My name is URL · 26-07-2012 08:55PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Probrably has a latin description but in fairness If people are injecting gm insulin I dont see how they would mind eating gm food.

Well I can't speak for the other guy but personally, I have no problem eating GM food. I'd just prefer that it wasn't produced here in non-controlled enviroments. Eating the stuff would be the least of my concerns about the practice as a whole.

Duggys Housemate · 26-07-2012 08:59PM

Rango555 wrote: »

Conflats wrote: »

Also the thing about the indian suicides think with you head about it now at the start of that article it says seeds cannot be saved, Yes that is correct and why do you think the seeds are sterile?
I will answer it for you to make sure you get the picture im about to paint
The reason the seeds are sterile and cannot grow is because the anti-GM lobby wanted the plants in such a way they cud not produce crosses in the natural environment to stop their fears. So the argument your putting forward is flawed and in fact created by the very ones who now complain about this

That is simply not true... the reason the seeds are sterile is so the corporations can sell the seeds again year after year. Are you seriously trying to say that Monsanto et al are going to patent their seeds (and actually have bought up a lot of seed companies to take their seeds off the market) and then let people have a free supply forever once they have bought them? Your argument is naive....

However the anti-GM people are opposed to cross pollination. This would help stop it spreading.

Rango555 · 26-07-2012 09:09PM

Conflats wrote: »

Have you ever thought of using the opinion to actually try change the way gm is regulated?

As a matter of fact yes I have (but I'm not going to list how here as I value my privacy)

Conflats wrote: »

The changing varieties thing sure its all great on small scale but when the consumer in the supermarket wants a certain type of potato and you give them one they dont want what happens then? farmer is gone belly up,

How many people do you know that go into a supermarket specifically looking for GM potatoes? I have a small customer base and rely on regular feedback from my customers to help me grow what they want... I realise that under our current industrial way of food production that is not possible but there is no reason that with a change in the current status quo and with farmers actively engaging with those who eat their crops that in a small country like ours it should be very possible. We are not trying to feed 300 million here...

Conflats wrote: »

You haven't listened to the actual scientific arguments put forward by me in relation to the increasing use of pesticides but to state the so called straw man as you call it- resistance this is a naturally occurring fact of life GM will not stop natures ability to overcome the challenges man puts in its way, it happened in this country in 2002 with a disease called septoria on wheat which failed overnight, if you understood scientific principles which i have mentioned to you, you will see why these problems are there instead of insisting they are wrong.
Google enhanced metabolism and see, also try pest and disease resistance, selection pressure you will find millions of peer reviewed journals on these topics to prove these issues are what would happen with conventional varieties too.

You haven't listened to what I am saying...

GM crops DO NOT increas food yield.

That is where you are wrong.

I'm offline for a while but will look at this thread again on my return

Duggys Housemate · 26-07-2012 09:12PM

Can we categorically state that GM has never, and will never increase food yields? That the scientists can never get that right? Organic farming reduces yields.

Conflats · 26-07-2012 09:19PM

Rango555 wrote: »

That is simply not true... the reason the seeds are sterile is so the corporations can sell the seeds again year after year. Are you seriously trying to say that Monsanto et al are going to patent their seeds (and actually have bought up a lot of seed companies to take their seeds off the market) and then let people have a free supply forever once they have bought them? Your argument is naive....

Yes this is a point they do sell seed each year but your not listening to the major reason behind it, its to stop gene transfer but also patent. In ireland when you use over a certain amount of seed you pay breeders royalties monsanto are ensuring that they are not defrauded from their technology. Nobody forces you to use GM seed every year you can grow it this year and change back to conventional varieties if you want to please stop with the conspiracy theories.

As regards buying the competition i suppose you would have a problem with ryanair buying aer lingus? its all about being number 1, plenty of other companies do GM bayer are involved, BASF, Sygenta( Pioneer brand)

woodoo · 26-07-2012 09:28PM

Don't let these monsters in or anywhere near ireland = Monsanto

I would prefer if we stayed away from GM crops. I don't like the idea of a company owning a patent on the food we eat. Or on things like corn as monsanto has in the US. You could have a farmer bring it into his farm and if his farm contaminates the farm next door the farm next door gets sued by the GM crop company. Its crazy and its already happening in the land of the free (laugh up my sleeve... free my arse).

Conflats · 26-07-2012 10:13PM

Rango555 wrote: »

You haven't listened to what I am saying...

GM crops DO NOT increas food yield.

That is where you are wrong.

I'm offline for a while but will look at this thread again on my return

Yes i have told you the reason they have not and it took years for the genetic lag in wheat to catch up as it will take the GM crops.

But the fact of the BT corn with the naturally occurring insecticide in it has increased yield's (somewhat maybe not in millions of tonnes) due to less losses

Yes no company should hold the gene rights this is why a bodies like Teagasc should be funded to provide GM for the Irish farmer to benefit them and not just for profit, however it will never happen as the investment to bring varieties out would be too great for the exchequer who would be a large contributor to this if it happened, this is why Ireland needs to have put in place a proper regulated system(and please don't say regulatio doesnt work it does in agriculture look at the pesticide control people do a power of regulation)

zenno · 26-07-2012 10:37PM

Once the packaging states clearly that they are genetically modified which is law to label them as such then I don't care as I just stick to non GM and purchase my organic potatoes from france. Monsanto are a hugely corrupt business and they won't stop till every country on earth uses monsanto's sh1te Frankenstein GMO's. I won't be putting that frankensh1te inside me.

I can also see the farmers that will use this crud and won't be able to sell it here because no-one will eat it so they will be forced to sell it to other countries or third world countries and lose profit, no-one will put that untested crap into them, not in Ireland anyway. So when farmers do try to sell their genetically modified potatoes in Ireland and can't sell them don't cry to the government over it.

Grab some nice German potatoes from lidl and you will be grand and when everyone purchases from outside Ireland farmers will have no choice but to stop the GM growing as they will be out of business. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/03/20/germany-rejects-gmo-food.aspx

http://www.ideaireland.org/gmfoodhealth.htm

Cookie_Monster · 26-07-2012 11:29PM

Shenshen wrote: »

GM usually means less artificial stuff required to make them grow, so the post is a contradiction in itself.

no it means genetically modified...
in the case of rices it's to increase resistance to disease and add higher levels of VitA to crops.
how exactly does the post contradict itself?

Colmustard · 27-07-2012 12:11AM

Its about time, hopilly Ireland can be a future developer in this growing industry, it is the future, traditional techniques will not feed the grow world population.

squod · 27-07-2012 12:21AM

Growing GM crops in Carlow. It's not the fuhken sahara. Spuds will grow without the need for GM. Shit loads of arable land is still not being used like.

The reality is

we don't need to grow them
Yeilds won't increase
Spuds won't become cheaper because of it
It's possible we could lose some exports and export potential because of it

Bigger picture vs the wants of some money mad loon.

uch · 27-07-2012 12:28AM

I have OCD when it come's to Potato's, the bigger the better, so if GM can give me the biggest Spud I can get, jesus i'm gonna Germinate tonight

zenno · 27-07-2012 12:33AM

Colmustard wrote: »

Its about time, hopilly Ireland can be a future developer in this growing industry, it is the future, traditional techniques will not feed the grow world population.

What are you talking about ? Ireland doesn't need to feed the worlds population ? only our own so i don't get what you mean by that.

Also, it will cost farmers more to go the GM way and not only that, Irish citizens always wanted and love the organic way so you can be assured that most Irish people here will not purchase this genetically modified food and thus the farmers will not be able to sell it here as they will have to export it to other countries that want it. It's foolish to bring in this GM stuff to Ireland as it will affect our good clean organic exports. If it goes GM sure who will want second grade food-stuffs ?.

jurahnimoh · 27-07-2012 12:37AM

Will these spuds taste nice does anybody know?

Nodin · 27-07-2012 12:45AM

uch wrote: »

I have OCD when it come's to Potato's, the bigger the better, so if GM can give me the biggest Spud I can get, jesus i'm gonna Germinate tonight

Fair enough, but you have to catch them before you eat them

padma · 27-07-2012 12:46AM

tbh I feel it will harm our reputation in a massive way, whatever way you think of it gm food has a bad reputation and to start an industry of gm potato coming from ireland will surely mess with that reputation in a big way.

If you were in a shop and you saw 2 bags of spuds one was marked gm, the other non gm which would you buy? Now if Irish spuds in international shops became synonomous with gm, they'd be ignored. In truth its a no brainer really.

This whole permission stuff here smacks of big corporations with a few bucks slipped in the right hands and an opening of the doors of a country to start genetically growing foodstuffs. There is a reason why gm foods are frowned upon in Europe and it is simply that people prefer something which sounds and seems natural so hitting the Irish reputation with being synonomous with gm potatoes is defeatist with the current suspicion of consumers towards gm foods.

Colmustard · 27-07-2012 12:50AM

zenno wrote: »

What are you talking about ? Ireland doesn't need to feed the worlds population ? only our own so i don't get what you mean by that.

Also, it will cost farmers more to go the GM way and not only that, Irish citizens always wanted and love the organic way so you can be assured that most Irish people here will not purchase this genetically modified food and thus the farmers will not be able to sell it here as they will have to export it to other countries that want it. It's foolish to bring in this GM stuff to Ireland as it will affect our good clean organic exports. If it goes GM sure who will want second grade food-stuffs ?.

But the demand of the world sets the market price. If you think the Irish farmer grows food for the Irish market alone you shouldn't post in this debate.
Currently we are in a food inflationary period that we will get worse next year because of an American drought and as the far eastern economies grow. Geddit.

Our only hope in the future for cheap food is industrial farming and more efficient GM crops, forget about traditional techniques they worked when the world pop was under 2 billion we are now 7 billion.

Colmustard · 27-07-2012 12:53AM

squod wrote: »

Growing GM crops in Carlow. It's not the fuhken sahara. Spuds will grow without the need for GM. Shit loads of arable land is still not being used like.

The reality is
we don't need to grow them

Yeilds won't increase

Spuds won't become cheaper because of it

It's possible we could lose some exports and export potential because of it

Bigger picture vs the wants of some money mad loon.

If they are Blight resistant spuds, yields will increase and as a bonus we will not have our food tainted with anti blight chemicals.

zenno · 27-07-2012 01:10AM

Colmustard wrote: »

But the demand of the world sets the market price. If you think the Irish farmer grows food for the Irish market alone you shouldn't post in this debate.
Currently we are in a food inflationary period that we will get worse next year because of an American drought and as the far eastern economies grow. Geddit.

Our only hope in the future for cheap food is industrial farming and more efficient GM crops, forget about traditional techniques they worked when the world pop was under 2 billion we are now 7 billion.

You are missing my point. I am talking about sales only in Ireland but even if this GM potato is exported to other countries it is quite obvious that a consumer will not purchase this GM product as it will be labeled as was already said so sales will be down and sales will seriously be down in Ireland because an organic country producer like Ireland will not tolerate it and of which will not purchase this to eat. It will be the death to the farmers here if they mass produce this GM junk. A good way to putting yourself out of business.

Colmustard · 27-07-2012 01:16AM

zenno wrote: »

You are missing my point. I am talking about sales only in Ireland but even if this GM potato is exported to other countries it is quite obvious that a consumer will not purchase this GM product as it will be labeled as was already said so sales will be down and sales will seriously be down in Ireland because an organic country producer like Ireland will not tolerate it and of which will not purchase this to eat. It will be the death to the farmers here if they mass produce this GM junk.

There will also be organic food inflation and food is a growing market for reasons I stated above, there WILL be a demand for this spud and at a good price.

It is in our countries interest to become even a greater food exporter, so industrial GM farming is the way to go. Organic is a luxury item it is wasteful farming and no better for us. Some say it tastes better, but I don't think so, it depends on how it is cooked.

zenno · 27-07-2012 01:21AM

Colmustard wrote: »

There will also be organic food inflation and food is a growing market for reasons I stated above, there WILL be a demand for this spud and at a good price.

It is in our countries interest to become even a greater food exporter, so industrial GM farming is the way to go. Organic is a luxury item it is wasteful farming and no better for us. Some say it tastes better, but I don't think so, it depends on how it is cooked.

I don't agree as i would rather pay the little more for organic food than put GM produce inside me. There is a much larger problem with this as well regarding contamination of organic farmers fields and this will be a huge problem if this GM work is expanded. It won't work anyway as no-one will purchase it, maybe a handful will but the majority imo won't.

Colmustard · 27-07-2012 01:28AM

zenno wrote: »

I don't agree as i would rather pay the little more for organic food than put GM produce inside me. There is a much larger problem with this as well regarding contamination of organic farmers fields and this will be a huge problem if this GM work is expanded. It won't work anyway as no-one will purchase it, maybe a handful will but the majority imo won't.

You are already purchasing it, do you think the grain in you bread does not come from the American plains, it does. Also all the corn syrup and soya which is in most things we eat is all GM.

I am glad you are in that position to be able to pay a higher price for your food, I am not and I believe in the majority.

How much do you pay for your lets say your organic chicken 20 30 euro. I could not afford that.

steddyeddy · 27-07-2012 01:41AM

To be honest I would out this mad anti gm stuff up with creationisim. It just seems to be hating it for the sake of hating it.

N64 · 27-07-2012 01:43AM

how many monsanto shills do we have on this thread?

steddyeddy · 27-07-2012 01:45AM

N64 wrote: »

how many monsanto shills do we have on this thread?

Or people who know what gm actually is?

zenno · 27-07-2012 02:17AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Or people who know what gm actually is?

Do you ?...

Look, it's common sense that a consumer is going to go for organic over genetically modified if purchasing food so unless you can brainwash them to think GM is safe then it won't work, and so far there has been feck all long-term studies proving it is safe. If you think for 1 second that Monsanto have the populations health as priority then think again, they won't release the so-called studies on this even in america. It's up to yourself what you want to eat and most people will go organic.

To be honest I would out this mad anti gm stuff up with creationisim. It just seems to be hating it for the sake of hating it.

If this is all you have to add in relation to GM then you haven't done well. Debate it instead of foolish remarks ?.

steddyeddy · 27-07-2012 02:25AM

zenno wrote: »

Do you ?...

Look, it's common sense that a consumer is going to go for organic over genetically modified if purchasing food so unless you can brainwash them to think GM is safe then it won't work, and so far there has been feck all long-term studies proving it is safe. If you think for 1 second that Monsanto have the populations health as priority then think again, they won't release the so-called studies on this even in america. It's up to yourself what you want to eat and most people will go organic.

If this is all you have to add in relation to GM then you haven't done well. Debate it instead of foolish remarks ?.

No offence meant. Look at my previous posts I made clear my feelings on the subject. I think gm is safe but I wouldnt like the idea of monsanto owning the patent on something.

Permission granted to grow GM potatoes in Ireland

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