Cash Aid for the stranded "Pilots"

Nodin · 22-07-2012 09:44PM

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Not sure if I follow your strange logic Dude ?

They were goons because they paid a huge wedge in advance to a dodgy company...which even a cursory financial check would have shown up.

The company had the cloak of respectability for some years, so why would they check it? Huge fees are common in some fields.

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Why ?

Can't understand the sense of entitlement there ....like if I paid a solicitor €100k up front as a deposit on a house and he went belly up/absconded ....would the taxpayer cover my loss...I think not !.

You think wrong. You get compensation from the Solictors Compensation Fund.

Delancey · 22-07-2012 09:52PM

These students are like many thousands of others affected by businesses collapsing - they are unsecured creditors which means they get nothing. A lousy situation to be in but no way is this the fault or responsibility of any Government department or agency.

Flight schools fail with monotonous regularity , paying up front was utterly stupid particularly to a school that had a poor reputation in the aviation world.

Judging from their Facebook page many of the students seem to have literacy issues.

squod · 22-07-2012 10:00PM

Delancey wrote: »

Judging from their Facebook page many of the students seem to have literacy issues.

lol Srsly? ne screen caps?

Fulton Crown · 22-07-2012 10:36PM

SocSocPol wrote: »

Your loss dude would be like covered like dude by the like dude Law Society dude like

I know that pilgrim...but if you read my post my question was would the loss be covered by the taxpayer...I even underlined the word taxpayer to make it clear.

So pal .....would my loss be covered by the TAXPAYER ?.

Anythin about that you don't understand ?

Fulton Crown · 22-07-2012 10:42PM

The company had the cloak of respectability for some years, so why would they check it? Huge fees are common in some fields.

Heh heh you are obviously a socialist pal...sorry to be so blunt but only goons would pay €100k upfront and not do a due diligence check on the guys they were payin it to .

You think wrong. You get compensation from the Solictors Compensation Fund.

Read my post horse .....here Ill ask you again...would I get compensation from the (speaks very slowly and distinctly) TAXPAYER.?

Hmmmmm ?

Fulton Crown · 22-07-2012 10:45PM

Delancey wrote: »

These students are like many thousands of others affected by businesses collapsing - they are unsecured creditors which means they get nothing. A lousy situation to be in but no way is this the fault or responsibility of any Government department or agency.

Flight schools fail with monotonous regularity , paying up front was utterly stupid particularly to a school that had a poor reputation in the aviation world.

Judging from their Facebook page many of the students seem to have literacy issues.

Spot on poster.....spot on.....

ejmaztec · 23-07-2012 12:00AM

Nodin wrote: »

The company had the cloak of respectability for some years, so why would they check it? Huge fees are common in some fields.

I'd be interested to know they managed to do this, as professional persons/organisations etc outside of the company obviously knew about the company's state of affairs.

eth0 · 23-07-2012 01:05AM

ejmaztec wrote: »

I'd be interested to know they managed to do this, as professional persons/organisations etc outside of the company obviously knew about the company's state of affairs.

This happens with a lot of companies. Enron, Anglo irish. Both mighty companies till the day it was anounced that they made a balls of it

CatFromHue · 23-07-2012 01:08AM

I think the students might be barking up the wrong tree but I'm half thinking they know this themselves. In any negotiation process you originally look for more than you want to give you a position to negotiate down from and still win.

Even if they don't they're still out there making people pay attention to their plight, they're not accepting the raw deal they've gotten. So while I think they're misguided I applaud them for not giving in and not accepting the so called "that's the way it is", begrudgers go fcuk yourselves!

3ndahalfof6 · 23-07-2012 01:17AM

I did a similar course, now the thing is I spent eight weeks studying and doing simulator, the problem is after they got my money I found out I was afraid of heights and there was no way I was going up,

pure waste.

ejmaztec · 23-07-2012 01:33AM

eth0 wrote: »

This happens with a lot of companies. Enron, Anglo irish. Both mighty companies till the day it was anounced that they made a balls of it

They fudged the figures so they looked good, whereas this particular company somehow managed to keep trading even though the published figures were dire. I'm probably not the only one wondering what the reason was.

paddyandy · 23-07-2012 07:56AM

We take chances with large sums of money ; when it goes wrong we expect the taxpayer to bail us out ,However in this instance did the Government have any hand act or part in all of this ?????? Let's be fair .

Fulton Crown · 23-07-2012 08:15AM

That is the Governments point ...they had no hand or part in any of this.

Sloppy regulation is probably the root cause behind all this...but reimbursing people for the consequences should not be the problem of the taxpayer.

I accept that the people who foolishly paid over these large sums without a due diligence check did so with the best of intentions.....but there was a risk !

Now suck it up Dudes....take the freekin pain ....and stop expecting the taxpayer to pick up the tab for your foolishness.

Kirby · 23-07-2012 09:30AM

Sure thing Mr Lebowski!

Skuxx · 23-07-2012 09:49AM

Royal Legend wrote: »

...got off their backsides my ar5e, more like their parents tried to buy them a job.

It almost sounds like your saying their parents did something wrong!! If, in the future, my kid decided they wanted to become an airline pilot, then I would do anything I could to make that happen for them!! And as for buying them a job, if you know the airline industry, these kids are a long way out from getting a job once they finish that course, especially at the moment! Airlines are only looking for guys with x number of hours on type, a newbie just out of flight school with a frozen ATPL will find it very difficult to get work! I know qualified pilots who work as cabin crew, I know a lad working in a bank, its certainly not a free pass into a 6 figure wage and a job for life that maybe the industry once was!!

Augmerson · 23-07-2012 10:06AM

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Now suck it up Dudes....take the freekin pain ....and stop expecting the taxpayer to pick up the tab for your foolishness.

Yeah! The taxpayer doesn't pay for this kind of crap! Just multi-billion euro bailouts to banks! Like, what are they even smoking!?!

Just so it's clear, I'm being sarcastic. I think you're an awful goon as well kid.

Show Time · 23-07-2012 12:00PM

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Is I missin sommat here ?

These goons signed up for a private course which they hoped would gain them entry to the lucrative world of commercial aviation.

Fair enough! I have no issue with that .

Then this private course goes belly up and you have assorted mothers whinging to Govt Ministers and expecting John Q Taxpayer to pick up the tab !

Hello ?

Why in the freek would they expect that.....some "entitlement" culture there .

Thank freek the Vrad sent them packing ...good to see someone in authority with some balls refusing to let John Q be bullied.

Private course Dudes.....risk involved in these things....appreciate you were unlucky.....but hey ! thats life ...suck it up and stop expecting the taxpayer to bail you out.

1984 Irish Shipping went tits up and nothing was done for months to look after the Irishmen and women who were stranded all over the world and these bunch of jokers are looking for money?????

end of the road · 23-07-2012 02:43PM

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Now suck it up Dudes.

suck what, oh you like to suck? really? oh wait no you actually suck? ah right i see, each to their own i suppose.

looksee · 23-07-2012 05:27PM

Royal Legend wrote: »

It should not be the taxpayer, there are lotsof people who have lost employment and got f all in return, the waterford glass workers lost millions in their pensions, should the government re-pay them what they lost, got off their backsides my ar5e, more like their parents tried to buy them a job.

I don't follow this arguement at all. I said - and RL bolded - that I did not know who should be responsible. Then RL started ranting about the taxpayers and that has been the theme since.

It is not about the government handing out refunds. It is about the government governing. Surely given our recent history there should be some sort of regulation of firms that take huge fees and don't deliver? I would think that forcing whoever is sitting on the money to repay it should be the first consideration. Is no-one demanding that they be accountable? Was the money - the government grants or the fees or both - put into the company, or syphoned off? Establishing that is the government's responsibility, not simply refunding the fees.

What really annoyed me about the first post though, was the dismissive and begrudging attitude. These people have lost significant money through, at the very least, others' incompetence, but 'that's ok, obviously they could afford it and who are they to try and improve themselves anyway'.

bluecode · 23-07-2012 05:45PM

I sympathised with them at first but their attitude changed my mind. Expecting the taxpayer to refund their money is a bit much.

Their big mistake was to pay upfront. But their first mistake was to try and become a pilot in the first place. Even if they had qualified some of them will have blown their money anyway. There are damm all jobs for low time pilots out there. Even if they were selected by Ryanair they would have to find another €30k to pay for their training and only earn pocket money for months until they were fully qualified. But in fact they would never have got into Ryanair anyway because Ryanair no longer recruit Irish pilots. Yes that's right they discrimate against Irish people. Not only that Ryanair hated PTC and rarely took their graduates anyway.

Ireland and Europe is flooded with newly minted low time pilots desperately looking for work. With precious few jobs. Those that do get jobs have to fund even more training for themselves so they can get low paid jobs with no job security.

It's nuts!

steddyeddy · 23-07-2012 07:46PM

Im not sure of all the details but there would have to be a good case made for the tax payer funding this. I do feel sorry for them all the same becoming a pilot is one fo the hardest things to do. I would feel even more sorry if any of them dont come from rich stock because becoming a pilot is a very costly process.

I will say that the sterotype of the posh pilot isnt always the case as some poeple seem to think. One of my greatest role models Is actually a guy the same age as me. We both came from a council estate but this gey knew he wanted to be a pilot from a young age. He did a ton of crap jobs and worked very extremely hard to get his private license and then his commercial license. If there was a person like him being compensated then I wouldnt have a problem doing that. I wouldnt be happy compensating someone with rich parents who wanted a new hobby (not that theres many people like that).

Fulton Crown · 23-07-2012 11:13PM

end of the road wrote: »

suck what, oh you like to suck? really? oh wait no you actually suck? ah right i see, each to their own i suppose.

Whu ?

What you smokin pilgrim ?

Fulton Crown · 23-07-2012 11:31PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Im not sure of all the details but there would have to be a good case made for the tax payer funding this. I do feel sorry for them all the same becoming a pilot is one fo the hardest things to do. I would feel even more sorry if any of them dont come from rich stock because becoming a pilot is a very costly process.

I will say that the sterotype of the posh pilot isnt always the case as some poeple seem to think. One of my greatest role models Is actually a guy the same age as me. We both came from a council estate but this gey knew he wanted to be a pilot from a young age. He did a ton of crap jobs and worked very extremely hard to get his private license and then his commercial license. If there was a person like him being compensated then I wouldnt have a problem doing that. I wouldnt be happy compensating someone with rich parents who wanted a new hobby (not that theres many people like that).

Sorry Dude...but it dosn't matter a jot whether parents is poor or rich..if they took out a private contract and it goes belly up....they end up loosing.

Tough ! Sorry for them an all that but my gripe is why do they expect the taxpayer to bail them out.

Just can't figure that.

steddyeddy · 24-07-2012 12:06AM

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Sorry Dude...but it dosn't matter a jot whether parents is poor or rich..if they took out a private contract and it goes belly up....they end up loosing.

Tough ! Sorry for them an all that but my gripe is why do they expect the taxpayer to bail them out.

Just can't figure that.

Ah I suppose your right. I was just trying to point out that not every pilot is has 100k to blow.

Arpa · 24-07-2012 12:57AM

I looked into the PTC a couple of years back and decided against it. Even in my early correspondence there seemed to be an over zealous eagerness on their part to lure me in. After an initial email enquiry I received over 15 personalised emails attempting to have me pay an assessment fee of approx €290. This was just the cost of an initial aptitude test. Something tells me now that I may well have passed that test had I been eligible or not. I am glad I steered clear. For those of you who are interested here is a facsimile of one of the correspondences I received from PTC Ireland.

Thank you for your enquiry to The Pilot Training College. I understand from your enquiry that you are interested in getting further information on pursuing a career as an airline pilot.
The Integrated Airline Pilot Training Programme we offer is highly focused and structured; this allows you to obtain the necessary training and experience to be able to transition to an international airline in as little as 12-14 months. This course will bring you all the way from beginner level to having all the licences required to interview with an airline for a position as a first officer.
The course is designed for complete beginners and is open to anybody who can obtain the following entry requirements:
1. Complete the Pilot Skills and Aptitude Assessment
2. Complete a Professional Class 1 medical exam
3. Complete a finance plan
I have further information on all of the entry requirements and the Integrated Airline Pilot Training Programme itself in the brochure below. Simply click on the link and it will give you all of the information required.
Integrated Airline Pilot Programme Brochure

Professional Pilot Assessment Day

As a training advisor, I understand that if this is your first time enquiring you may need some assistance in navigating through the information. I am happy to help you in any way I can; as this is a global industry and starting out can be difficult to contemplate.
Please do not hesitate to contact me by phone or email, I would be very happy to discuss this further with you.

Kind regards,

I really do feel for the lads who forked out that cash, and it's silly to suggest there were all funded by their rich parents. In other emails I was told that PTC would aid me in securing a bank loan as I was a student at the time. Imagine if I had secured a loan for ninety odd grand and this had happened.

It is however, not something which should be met with any compensation by the state. This was a private agreement and investment. Much like investing in any venture...do your homework.

I ceased correspondence with PTC after being bombarded with requests to attend this and that by phone and email. I received at least one call a month for one year. Although they were friendly and open with their information they seemed to keen and this didn't look like proper conduct for a flight school.

People should go easy on the lads who got done. I can understand how they must feel after getting so far, but the mammies screaming for compensation should really keep quiet. They are making themselves look ridiculous. Research it before remortgaging the house.

end of the road · 24-07-2012 02:23AM

Fulton Crown wrote: »

What you smokin pilgrim ?

you address me by my proper username you little thick, its end of the road not pilgrim. judging by your posts your obviously to stupid to comprehend that.

Augmerson · 24-07-2012 02:44AM

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Sorry Dude...but it dosn't matter a jot whether parents is poor or rich..if they took out a private contract and it goes belly up....they end up loosing.

Tough ! Sorry for them an all that but my gripe is why do they expect the taxpayer to bail them out.

Just can't figure that.

Let me ask you this. The Banks in Ireland were private institutions. They messed up, but the taxpayer (public) stepped in and bailed them out to the tune of billions. Now, the taxpayer is being forced to undergo austerity because of the blackhole the Banks turned out to be. This cost us billions, maybe trillions. I am just trying to follow your logic, I know it wasn't a point you were making in earlier posts. I am sure though you must feel aggrieved by the situation following your reason. The banks cost us billions and they have totally depressed our economy. These guys in Florida were trying to make something productive of themselves, regardless of their background that is a noble effort from a country that at times, will settle for low standards because "sure **** it" atd atitudes.

It wouldn't bankrupt us to bail out people instead of those banks and they would benefit the economy by taking a burden off social welfare.

Pkiernan · 24-07-2012 05:11AM

I am setting up my own flight training school for muppets.

You must pay me €100,000 up front, and make your own way to the airport in Lagos, Nigeria.

I will meet you there.

If for some reason my training school goes bankrupt, please complain to your Transport Minister for compensation.

MORONS.

Pkiernan · 24-07-2012 05:13AM

Augmerson wrote: »

It wouldn't bankrupt us to bail out people instead of those banks and they would benefit the economy by taking a burden off social welfare.

Utter madness.

And fro a mathematical point of view, how would giving these idiots €100 k each be cheaper than paying the Social Welfare?

Tell you what, give me a hundred grand, and I promise never to go on the dole.

Augmerson · 24-07-2012 01:48PM

Pkiernan wrote: »

Augmerson wrote: »

It wouldn't bankrupt us to bail out people instead of those banks and they would benefit the economy by taking a burden off social welfare.

Utter madness.

And fro a mathematical point of view, how would giving these idiots €100 k each be cheaper than paying the Social Welfare?

Tell you what, give me a hundred grand, and I promise never to go on the dole.

How about a government loan? Not to the tune of 100k, but 10 or 15 grand would be very useful at this time. In Sweden, uni students get large loans from the Gov't. Then they are able to graduate and pay back those loans. Investing in people works.

Cash Aid for the stranded "Pilots"

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