At least £21tn in being hidden in global tax havens

token101 · 22-07-2012 01:21PM #1

Apparently £21 trillion is a conservative figure too! Not exactly a shock that the rich are hiding wealth, but potentially £32tn? :eek:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18944097

Biggins · 22-07-2012 01:23PM

I wonder how much of that is Mitt Romneys!

Pushtrak · 22-07-2012 01:29PM

"From another angle, this study is really good news. The world has just located a huge pile of financial wealth that might be called upon to contribute to the solution of our most pressing global problems," he said.

That, or a select few will be paid off to overlook the issue. Wonder which is more likely.

token101 · 22-07-2012 01:33PM

Pushtrak wrote: »

That, or a select few will be paid off to overlook the issue. Wonder which is more likely.

Seeing as how Ireland is a financial centre, if say 1% of that wealth was located in Ireland and it was taxed appropriately, how many times over would our debt be paid? Would we even have a debt? How much of the money that was loaned to us was taken from tax money that was due to states anyway?

Biggins · 22-07-2012 01:37PM

token101 wrote: »

...How much of the money that was loaned to us was taken from tax money that was due to states anyway?

Don't know if this is the figure your looking for but US firms supposedly give 3 Billion in corporate tax according to the header at: http://www.amcham.ie/news/submissions.aspx

Cool_CM · 22-07-2012 01:48PM

Good old Switzerland, one of the reasons touted amongst their press for them arresting Roman Polanski (who owns property there and had been coming and going freely for years) when they did was to use him as a way of appeasing the US who were putting a lot of pressure on Swiss banks to abandon their banking secrecy.

Shryke · 22-07-2012 02:21PM

It's insane but not surprising. Trickle down economics does not work. Neo capitalism is a disaster. The gap in class all over the world has widened.
An open, well regulated socialist approach with good health care and education is the only thing that guarantees a more stable economy with less class divide, but that's not sexy or exciting and it requires people to pay plenty of tax and act responsibly.
I know that's a bit of a sweeping statement but this is AH.

1ZRed · 22-07-2012 02:51PM

It makes you wonder what use is all this money to these people?
Surely they'll never get to spend it all.

I hope they find comfort in knowing it's just sitting pretty there giving them reasurance while the majority of the world is absolutely ass fucked by them.

Richard Hillman · 22-07-2012 03:04PM

Shryke wrote: »

It's insane but not surprising. Trickle down economics does not work. Neo capitalism is a disaster. The gap in class all over the world has widened.
An open, well regulated socialist approach with good health care and education is the only thing that guarantees a more stable economy with less class divide, but that's not sexy or exciting and it requires people to pay plenty of tax and act responsibly.
I know that's a bit of a sweeping statement but this is AH.

Socialism :pac:

Chucky the tree · 22-07-2012 03:11PM

Shryke wrote: »

It's insane but not surprising. Trickle down economics does not work. Neo capitalism is a disaster. The gap in class all over the world has widened.
An open, well regulated socialist approach with good health care and education is the only thing that guarantees a more stable economy with less class divide, but that's not sexy or exciting and it requires people to pay plenty of tax and act responsibly.
I know that's a bit of a sweeping statement but this is AH.

That's the single biggest problem. It would never work in Ireland.

woodoo · 22-07-2012 03:18PM

We have been talking about billions for a long time now and i wondered when we would see trillions mentioned. And surprise surprise trillions is mentioned in relation to rich people hiding their wealth.

The solution to the world financial meltdown could be solved by the tax due on that money going to the relevant governments. Our media should be doing their bit to shine a light on it. But i won't hold my breath.

mikemac1 · 22-07-2012 03:28PM

Sure we had our own version though of course it was a far smaller version

Ansbacher became a household word not long ago

Meanwhile I remember paying 48% PAYE on my overtime

Tax is for the little people

Shryke · 22-07-2012 03:57PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

That's the single biggest problem. It would never work in Ireland.

That has been said about so many things and here we are with a smoking ban, offlicenses that close on publicans orders, essential services being cut, gigantic debt that isn't ours and the people responsible for it still laughing about it and juggling assets to try and hide them from slow inept hands, the household charge, sewage tanks, the list goes on and barely a stirring.
Tbh all it would take is for the people in power to act and we would swallow it, but that will never happen, not without everyone else doing something first so we can then make a poor attempt to copy. Would like to see our labour party stripped of the name. Such a disgrace.

Diego Maradona · 22-07-2012 03:59PM

Whats a trillion? Thousand million? Million million? Million billion? Thousand billion? Billion billion?

Shryke · 22-07-2012 04:02PM

Diego Maradona wrote: »

Whats a trillion? Thousand million? Million million? Million billion? Thousand billion? Billion billion?

Yes.

badbeatcentral · 22-07-2012 04:13PM

'hiding'? like it's under a rock on some beach in the caymans? The super rich protecting their wealth in a prudent legal manner seems pretty standard and to be expected, of course in a global recession money is going to flood to the tax havens.

Capt'n Midnight · 22-07-2012 04:17PM

$21,000 Bn / 7 Bn people = €3,000 each

3 billion of the world's people (one-half) live in 'poverty' (living on less than $2 per day). 1.3 billion people live in 'absolute' or 'extreme poverty' (living on less than $1 per day).

The wealth of the world's 7.1 million millionaires - ie. 1/1000th of the population - ($27 trillion) equals the total combined annual income of the entire planet.

Shryke · 22-07-2012 04:19PM

badbeatcentral wrote: »

'hiding'? like it's under a rock on some beach in the caymans? The super rich protecting their wealth in a prudent legal manner seems pretty standard and to be expected, of course in a global recession money is going to flood to the tax havens.

1) They're not protecting their wealth, they're dodging paying tax, enough revenue to completely tip the current global economic balance.
2) This hadn't been happening in recession. It's been happening for decades. You haven't even read an article on this.

Diego Maradona · 22-07-2012 04:20PM

Shryke wrote: »

1) They're not protecting their wealth, they're dodging paying tax, enough revenue to completely tip the current global economic balance.
2) This hadn't been happening in recession. It's been happening for decades. You haven't even read an article on this.

Yes

Shryke · 22-07-2012 04:22PM

Diego Maradona wrote: »

Shryke wrote: »

1) They're not protecting their wealth, they're dodging paying tax, enough revenue to completely tip the current global economic balance.
2) This hadn't been happening in recession. It's been happening for decades. You haven't even read an article on this.

Yes

Exactly.

DB21 · 22-07-2012 04:58PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

$21,000 Bn / 7 Bn people = €3,000 each

3 billion of the world's people (one-half) live in 'poverty' (living on less than $2 per day). 1.3 billion people live in 'absolute' or 'extreme poverty' (living on less than $1 per day).

The wealth of the world's 7.1 million millionaires - ie. 1/1000th of the population - ($27 trillion) equals the total combined annual income of the entire planet.

And? Are people not supposed to have money? Would you have us live in a communist world? It works fine in theory, but in practice (USSR, China) it leads to dictatorships.

token101 · 22-07-2012 05:00PM

DB21 wrote: »

And? Are people not supposed to have money? Would you have us live in a communist world? It works fine in theory, but in practice (USSR, China) it leads to dictatorships.

There's a difference between taxing capitalistic gains fairly and equitably and communism.

22-07-2012 05:04PM

Anyone here have a pension fund? Or any investments in a managed fund? Or do you give money to charity? Cause if you do, you're almost definitely part of that 21tr figure and apparently, you should be ashamed of yourselves.

Tabloid trash written for idiots. You really think there's 21tr sitting in personal savings accounts? It's nearly all funds.

Archeron · 22-07-2012 05:09PM

Somewhere on Earth, there is a REALLY big mattress.

Chucky the tree · 22-07-2012 05:18PM

Shryke wrote: »

That has been said about so many things and here we are with a smoking ban, offlicenses that close on publicans orders, essential services being cut, gigantic debt that isn't ours and the people responsible for it still laughing about it and juggling assets to try and hide them from slow inept hands, the household charge, sewage tanks, the list goes on and barely a stirring.
Tbh all it would take is for the people in power to act and we would swallow it, but that will never happen, not without everyone else doing something first so we can then make a poor attempt to copy. Would like to see our labour party stripped of the name. Such a disgrace.

Hardly call it barely a stirring. Look what happened to the Green and Fianna Fail after the Guarantee. Look what happening to Labour after the household and other cuts. None of the major political party here would increase tax levels across the board similiar to more socialist countries like Sweden etc because then they wouldn't get into power again

Shryke · 22-07-2012 05:32PM

That was more or less what I said in my post, with regard to politicians being too cowardly to enact higher taxes for a better social model. I think were more or less on the same page, but I do believe it's something that would be swallowed with a little time. That's going to stay a hypothetical anyway.

22-07-2012 05:33PM

The world has just located a huge pile of financial wealth that might be called upon to contribute to the solution of our most pressing global problems," he said.

the world has just located a load of privately earned wealth that the rest of us can plunder. hurray! now we don't need to worry about fcuking up the country and giving the politicans high salaries and expenses because anyone who earns their money themselves can just be robbed. great plan.

KindOfIrish · 22-07-2012 05:34PM

token101 wrote: »

Apparently £21 trillion is a conservative figure too! Not exactly a shock that the rich are hiding wealth, but potentially £32tn? :eek:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18944097

Anybody wants to to tell me, that I have an obligation to repay my tiny mortgage to those rich? No way! Pay it yourself. And if Irish government pawned Irish taxpayers to that rich falk it is not my problem

Chucky the tree · 22-07-2012 05:37PM

Shryke wrote: »

That was more or less what I said in my post, with regard to politicians being too cowardly to enact higher taxes for a better social model. I think were more or less on the same page, but I do believe it's something that would be swallowed with a little time. That's going to stay a hypothetical anyway.

But they are to cowardly because the vast majority of people wouldn't be happy about it. The fact you admit that Irish people would have to "swallow" it just highlights this. If in the next election a political party ran under a manifesto of increasing income tax and corporation tax they'd be hammered.

titan18 · 22-07-2012 05:38PM

Shryke wrote: »

That was more or less what I said in my post, with regard to politicians being too cowardly to enact higher taxes for a better social model. I think were more or less on the same page, but I do believe it's something that would be swallowed with a little time. That's going to stay a hypothetical anyway.

Out of interest why should the rich pay for everyone else?

golden lane · 22-07-2012 05:40PM

rich....who exactly is rich.....are pension funds and other investments included in these sums.....

is saving and investing for your, future and childrens future....a crime.

is having money invested in jobs a bad thing, the risk is taken by the investors......should not the rewards be good.....

let the government run everything.....see what the result is....
in countries where that happens, bribery is rampant......

At least £21tn in being hidden in global tax havens

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