10 shot dead at Batman showing in Denver

jumpguy wrote: »

How can gun control NOT be an issue here? The man was armed to the teeth with guns he bought legally. He bought an automatic assualt rifle legally. Seriously, who the fúck outside of the military actually needs an automatic rifle?

While I understand your point, seems to me that a lot of explosives and guns we've seen in Ireland were not legal.

Automatic rifles are strictly regulated and controlled by both the Federal government and the individual states in the US. Many states do outlaw them entirely. It requires a background check by local law enforcement and then the FBI in those states where they are legal. Since 1934, there have been 2 instances of a legally owned machinegun being used in a murder, with one of the offenders being a law enforcement officer. There are nearly 250,000 registered machineguns in the US, with fully half of those in civilian hands. 25% of those are reportedly in Texas alone. Yes, even law enforcement must register their machineguns with the federal government in the US, and this means they must apply for a permit to own them.

Explosives are tightly regulated as well, similarly to as in Europe. However, as anyone in Europe could make a bomb out of reloading equipment or commercially available chemicals, the same can be done in the states.

However, with the exception of a few states, semi automatic rifles are legal to own without a machinegun(AKA NFA) permit being necessary. However, ALL firearms purchases in the US REQUIRE a federal background check, or concealed carry or weapons permit, before you can legally purchase this firearm, regardless of the state's laws. You must also be a US citizen, and also must be a citizen/resident of the state you are purchasing the gun in, with a valid ID and valid Social #. But the weapon itself is not required to be registered with the federal or state government. Violent offenses or any felonies precludes from owning a firearm in the US.

Although, to the layman, there is no difference between an assault rifle and a semi automatic rifle, in practice there is. Military style assault rifles are capable of fully automatic fire. Semi automatics are not. The difference in the possible rate of fire can be as much as 1,000 rounds per minute. That is a huge difference in firepower, and why militaries and law enforcement use assault rifles, and why real assault rifles are heavily regulated in many countries, as well as the US.

WIth that out of the way, here is the real problem:

In America, guns have always been legal to own. In 1928, you could have gone to the local hardware store and bought a fully automatic thompson submachinegun and a 100 round drum magazine and walked right out, assuming you could have paid the $200 price tag, which was the equivalent of half the costs of a car back then. BTW, one of the first purchasers of the tommy was the West Cork Brigade - a total of nearly 700 units. Next time you see photos of from 1919-21, you may find a tommy in them here and there.

Add in the 2nd amendment, and the gun ownership is not only legal - but protected. Before any real stifling of gun ownership can happen in the US, these guns must be made outright illegal, and purchases and fabrication must be halted, as well as importation. The 2nd amendment would need to be repealed, which takes 3/4 house votes(that's 327 representtives that need to vote for removing it), and then 66 of the 100 senators(2 from each state) must also vote to remove it. This is assuming such a vote can be tabled in bother houses successfully. Over 10,000 amendents have been tabled since the creation of the constitution - there are 27 amendments to the US Constitution, the last one passed in 1992. Only one amendment is a repeal of a previous amendment - the 21st - repealing prohibition(18th).

Once you accomplish that somehow, you now need to deal with the estimated 270 MILLION guns in the US. That is 9 guns for every 10 US citizens(I wouldn't invade American on a bet if I were you). The difficulty in confiscating firearms is evident - your targets are armed. And now, they may actually have a real reason to be paranoid.

Basically, what I am trying to say is gun control in the US will always be different than in Europe. Too many guns, too many owners, too many laws, too many hurdles to contend with to make any real difference any time soon in firearms ownership, or perhaps even within a lifetime or two.

This invites a few problems not unique unto the States, actually. In many places(admittedly many being 3rd worldish), guns abound. Basically, you are nearly forced to own a firearm merely so that you have even footing with a potential criminal, since the chances of that criminal being armed are high. Add in the fact the average police response time can be as much as 8 minutes, and is often more, and the only real protection you have vs an armed criminal is yourself. Will you be at their mercy, or will they be at yours?

Hunting is widespread and legal in all states in some form or another. Many gun owners merely use the firearms to hunt, some even do so to put food on the table. I've eaten many rabbits I had taken myself with a bow, handgun, and rifle.

Many argue that Americans take it upon themselves to defend themselves as a main ideology when it comes to firearm ownership. This is deeply seeded, and rooted, from winning independence from Britain - one of the main reasons for the second amendment being drawn up and ratified. Americans not only have a 'can do' attitude, but also have a 'must do' attitude; one must look after themselves and protect what they have, whether family, land, or otherwise. Owning a firearm is symbolic to these self-reliant ends, as it is both empowering and enabling to such ends. Ever since the war for independence, the gun has symbolized freedom in the US.

Massacres - by and large these have been committed by career criminals with knowledge on how to make and acquire firearms illegally(and the US does not corner this market, ask anyone in Norway or France recently), or they are committed by people whom are not sane, but may otherwise appear functional(or perhaps be in PHD programs even). How do you guard against such an occurance? Afterall, even with very strict gun laws, they still occur in Europe at nearly the same regularity as in the US, with the worst to date(Virginia Tech, 2007, by Cho, 32 dead) being half that of the massacre perpetrated in Norway by Breivik in 2011 with 77 killed. Well, really, the only way is to prevent the firearms from landing in the hands of these folks from the outset, but this again leads us back to the first few paragraphs. It is a situation that is insurmountable.

I am not really pro or anti gun. Well, not exactly. Whilst in Europe, I am mostly anti gun. I like the laws and the situation the way it is. But once I am back in the States, you better believe I have a gun in the house and when I travel(I have a concealed weapons permit valid in 26 states). Because, unfortunately, the baddies like to bring them along with them here, because well - there's freaking 270 million guns in this country. Lord help us all

I think its all about gun control.its about nothing else.this guy by all accounts up to now is totally sane.
The sad thing about it is obama and romney haven't mentioned gun control once ! Since it happened.
And the even sadder thing is if they did they would loose half their voters.
The right to bear arms my hole.