10 shot dead at Batman showing in Denver

mikom · 21-07-2012 01:04AM

MadsL wrote: »

290 odd people killed in the top US spree killings of the last 30 years compared to over 2000 dead in the sectarian campaigns. But the US is a "sick society"

Remind me again how many people died in the US Civil War.........

MadsL · 21-07-2012 01:10AM

mikom wrote: »

Remind me again how many people died in the US Civil War.........

There was nothing civil about the sectarian campaigns. The US Civil War soldiers wore uniforms.

token101 · 21-07-2012 01:12AM

MadsL wrote: »

That pretty much seals the deal that you know FA about the US. Best stick to Canada, eh?

If your reasoning for having a gun is because you fear someone coming to your house, poisoning your dog and trying to kill your wife you live in a sick, sick society. I will stick to Canada and anywhere else, you can keep 'the greatest country in the world'

mikom · 21-07-2012 01:13AM

MadsL wrote: »

There was nothing civil about the sectarian campaigns. The US Civil War soldiers wore uniforms.

So did the SS.

K-9 · 21-07-2012 01:13AM

MadsL wrote: »

290 odd people killed in the top US spree killings of the last 30 years compared to over 2000 dead in the sectarian campaigns. But the US is a "sick society"

Okay, might as well break it down and make it simple, not being condescending, just cutting to the chase!

How many since the ceasefire or the Good Friday Agreement?

Duggys Housemate · 21-07-2012 01:20AM

MadsL wrote: »

K-9 wrote: »

Don't know much about mass killings statistics but why in the name of God are people comparing the North to US stats?

290 odd people killed in the top US spree killings of the last 30 years compared to over 2000 dead in the sectarian campaigns. But the US is a "sick society"

And how many cases have there been where people have been killed by their own guns?

A very small number.

# of unjustified gun deaths, provided by the Violence Policy Center, for 2011:
Total: 54

Out of those 54 gun deaths, there were:
Gun accidents, suicides, negligent discharges, etc: 17
Murders, involved in illegal activities, drive-by-shootings, etc: 31
Actual unjustified shootings: 2 (of with all 2 cases are still pending)
One incident where the CCW-Licensees shooting was ruled justified, but the attacker shot back, killing the CCW-Licensee - which somehow is counted as unjustified shooting by the VPC

token101 wrote:

Are you being chased by the Russian Mafia? If not, there's no words for that sentiment really other than

That pretty much seals the deal that you know FA about the US. Best stick to Canada, eh?

3000 people killed in Oakland in 30 years. Oakland with its population of 400k.

And why is the whataboutery about the country to the north of the Republic of Ireland, where this site is based. Should we bring up Canada, or more usefully, Mexico?

Duggys Housemate · 21-07-2012 01:21AM

MadsL wrote: »

mikom wrote: »

Remind me again how many people died in the US Civil War.........

There was nothing civil about the sectarian campaigns. The US Civil War soldiers wore uniforms.

Yes but how many died when they wore uniforms?

MadsL · 21-07-2012 01:24AM

token101 wrote: »

If your reasoning for having a gun is because you fear someone coming to your house, poisoning your dog and trying to kill your wife you live in a sick, sick society. I will stick to Canada and anywhere else, you can keep 'the greatest country in the world'

If you think many Canadians don't own guns for similar reasons you are either delusional or have based all your reasoning on a Michael Moore movie.

In the case of the 18 year old with a baby who shot those two guys coming into her house after her dead husbands meds, should she be prosecuted or prevented from owning a gun? Home invasions whilst rare, nevertheless happen in the US, and police can be long time coming.

Should I not spend money on an alarm system because I live in a sick, sick society??

mikom · 21-07-2012 01:26AM

MadsL wrote: »

Should I not spend money on an alarm system because I live in a sick, sick society??

Question........ does this alarm system wear a uniform?

I'm not one for this casual dress malarky............ unless of course it's casual Friday.

token101 · 21-07-2012 01:31AM

MadsL wrote: »

If you think many Canadians don't own guns for similar reasons you are either delusional or have based all your reasoning on a Michael Moore movie.

In the case of the 18 year old with a baby who shot those two guys coming into her house after her dead husbands meds, should she be prosecuted or prevented from owning a gun? Home invasions whilst rare, nevertheless happen in the US, and police can be long time coming.

Should I not spend money on an alarm system because I live in a sick, sick society??

But there aren't nearly as many incidences of mass killings. Your own list from Wikipedia proves that. Are you really trying to compare alarm systems to deadly weapons?

MadsL · 21-07-2012 01:36AM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Yes but how many died when they wore uniforms?

The assertion is that the US is some sick and twisted society. To dispute this I offer the comparison of sane (supposedly) individuals organised into paramilitary sects blowing up and shooting innocent people compared to mentally deranged individuals committing suicidal (usually) random acts of insane violence.

Bringing wars of the 19th century into it is just "my dad is bigger than your dad" nonsense.

So did the SS.

And there we have it, end of thread.

mikom · 21-07-2012 01:45AM

MadsL wrote: »

And there we have it, end of thread.

Jawohl! Herr Kommandant!

K-9 · 21-07-2012 01:52AM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

3000 people killed in Oakland in 30 years. Oakland with its population of 400k.

And why is the whataboutery about the country to the north of the Republic of Ireland, where this site is based. Should we bring up Canada, or more usefully, Mexico?

Well I'd wonder why the statistic has basically flat-lined since the ceasefires and the GFA. That would make me think something else other than gun ownership was at play between 1969 and 1997.

Maybe I'm just being silly? I don't think the US had a near Civil War going on, Mexico has had a pretty violent few years though.

MadsL · 21-07-2012 01:52AM

mikom wrote: »

Jawohl! Herr Kommandant!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

mikom · 21-07-2012 01:54AM

MadsL wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Ya don't say.......

K-9 · 21-07-2012 01:57AM

MadsL wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

That's all great and stuff, so can you answer my previous question?

How many since the ceasefire or the Good Friday Agreement?

I'm at a loss as to what ongoing "terrorist" campaign is going on in the US.

Micky Dolenz · 21-07-2012 01:57AM

Whats with the baiting?

Run_to_da_hills · 21-07-2012 02:02AM

The CT's are coming in.

Colorado Batman shooting shows obvious signs of being staged

One thing for sure this incident will be ridden by the Obama admin to invoke further fascist EO's, the increased urban roll out of TSA and of course the further attempt to abolish the 2nd amendment. (One must remember similar gun banning moves were hastily drafted in by previous up and coming Communist / fascist regimes so it may be just a case of history repeating itself.

Also remember the presidential election is coming up and as with the last election the 2nd amendment was a hot coal.

K-9 · 21-07-2012 02:02AM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Whats with the baiting?

Apologies if it seems like that. I'm having difficulty in getting what I think is a very simple answer to a simple question, and I amn't somebody who'd be an IRA sympathiser when it comes to these things.

I'm trying to get at the logic of comparing a pretty civilised, peace time country with a small statelet that had basically a civil war.

MadsL · 21-07-2012 02:04AM

K-9 wrote: »

How many since the ceasefire or the Good Friday Agreement?

Would you like their names?

Name Date of Incident
Mark Daniel McNeil 17 April 1998
Adrian Francis Lamph 21 April 1998
Ciaran Heffron 25 April 1998
William Henry Paul 03 July 1998
David Jason Quinn 12 July 1998
Mark Kenneth Alan Quinn 12 July 1998
Richard Danny Stewart Quinn 12 July 1998
Andrew Kearny 19 July 1998
Brenda Mary Logue 15 August 1998
Gareth Conway 15 August 1998
Avril Monaghan 15 August 1998
Alan Radford 15 August 1998
Lorrayne Ann Wilson 15 August 1998
Elizabeth Amelda Rushe 15 August 1998
Elizabeth Olive Hawkes 15 August 1998
Mary Grimes 15 August 1998
Maria Teresa Monaghan 15 August 1998
Anne McCombe 15 August 1998
Rocio Abad Ramos 15 August 1998
Philomena Skelton 15 August 1998
Fred White 15 August 1998
Oran Michael Doherty 15 August 1998
Brian White 15 August 1998
Aiden Gallagher 15 August 1998
Jolene Briege Marlowe 15 August 1998
Ester Nora Gibson 15 August 1998
Brian McCrory 15 August 1998
Debra Anne Cartwright 15 August 1998
Julia Victoria Hughes 15 August 1998
Sean McLoughlin 15 August 1998
James Victor Barker 15 August 1998
Samantha McFarland 15 August 1998
Breda Devine 15 August 1998
Veda Elizabeth Short 15 August 1998
Geraldine Breslin 15 August 1998
Fernando Blasco Baselga 15 August 1998
John Joseph 'Sean' McGrath 15 August 1998
Frank O'Reilly 05 September 1998
Brian Gerard Service 31 October 1998
Eamon Collins 27 January 1999
Rosemary Nelson 15 March 1999
Francis Joseph Curry 17 March 1999
Brendan Joseph Fegan 09 May 1999
Mary Elizabeth O'Neill 05 June 1999
Paul Anthony Downey 13 June 1999
Charles Bennett 30 July 1999
Richard Jameson 10 January 2000
Andrew Robb 19 February 2000
David McIlwaine 19 February 2000
Martin Taylor 26 May 2000
Edmund McCoy 28 May 2000
Andrew Cairns 12 July 2000
John Coulter 21 August 2000
Robert Francis Mahood 21 August 2000
Samuel Rockett 23 August 2000
Patrick Gerard Quinn 29 September 2000
Joseph Emanuel O'Connor 13 October 2000
David Greer 28 October 2000
Herbert Rice 31 October 2000
Thomas English 31 October 2000
Mark Alan Quail 01 November 2000
Trevor Kell 05 December 2000
Gary Moore 06 December 2000
James William Rockett 18 December 2000
George Hugh Legge 06 January 2001
Adrian Porter 13 March 2001
Trevor Thomas Lowry 31 March 2001
Graham Edward Marks 11 April 2001
Christopher Michael O'Kane 21 April 2001
Paul Daly 04 May 2001
Stephen James Manners 27 May 2001
John McCormick 23 June 2001
Ciaran Michael Cummings 04 July 2001
Gavin Brett 29 July 2001
Martin O'Hagan 28 September 2001
Colm Foy 29 October 2001
Christopher Charles Folliard 29 October 2001
Francis Martin Mulholland 03 December 2001
Derek Lenehan 11 December 2001
William Stobie 12 December 2001
Danny McColgan 12 January 2002
Matthew Burns 21 February 2002
Brian Henry McDonald 17 April 2002
William Morgan 06 July 2002
Gerard Lawlor 22 July 2002
David Samuel Caldwell 01 August 2002
Stephen Warnock 13 September 2002
Geoffrey Thomas Gray 04 October 2002
Alexander McKinley 07 October 2002
Mark Apsley 30 November 2002
David Cupples 22 December 2002
Jonathan Michael Stewart 27 December 2002
Robert William Green 02 January 2003
John Maurice Gregg 01 February 2003
Robert John Carson 01 February 2003
Michael O'Hare 01 March 2003
Keith Patrick Rogers 12 March 2003
James Johnston 08 May 2003
Alan McCullough 28 May 2003
Daniel McGurk 17 August 2003
Thomas Matthew John Allen 08 November 2003
James Alexander McMahon 20 November 2003
Andrew Cully 24 March 2004
Brian Martin Stewart 18 May 2004

http://www.psni.police.uk/good_friday_agreement.pdf

Micky Dolenz · 21-07-2012 02:05AM

K-9 wrote: »

Apologies if it seems like that. I'm having difficulty in getting what I think is a very simple answer to a simple question, and I amn't somebody who'd be an IRA sympathiser when it comes to these things.

I'm trying to get at the logic of comparing a pretty civilised, peace time country with a small statelet that had basically a civil war.

I was referring to these and previous posts.

mikom wrote: »

Jawohl! Herr Kommandant!

mikom wrote: »

Ya don't say.......

FISMA · 21-07-2012 02:05AM

chin_grin wrote: »

this is regarding my view of the lackadaisical attitude gun buying/handling in the US...

Yeah, the US should have tighter gun control like Norway...

K-9 · 21-07-2012 02:15AM

MadsL wrote: »

Would you like their names?

Name Date of Incident
Mark Daniel McNeil 17 April 1998
Adrian Francis Lamph 21 April 1998
Ciaran Heffron 25 April 1998
William Henry Paul 03 July 1998
David Jason Quinn 12 July 1998
Mark Kenneth Alan Quinn 12 July 1998
Richard Danny Stewart Quinn 12 July 1998
Andrew Kearny 19 July 1998
Brenda Mary Logue 15 August 1998
Gareth Conway 15 August 1998
Avril Monaghan 15 August 1998
Alan Radford 15 August 1998
Lorrayne Ann Wilson 15 August 1998
Elizabeth Amelda Rushe 15 August 1998
Elizabeth Olive Hawkes 15 August 1998
Mary Grimes 15 August 1998
Maria Teresa Monaghan 15 August 1998
Anne McCombe 15 August 1998
Rocio Abad Ramos 15 August 1998
Philomena Skelton 15 August 1998
Fred White 15 August 1998
Oran Michael Doherty 15 August 1998
Brian White 15 August 1998
Aiden Gallagher 15 August 1998
Jolene Briege Marlowe 15 August 1998
Ester Nora Gibson 15 August 1998
Brian McCrory 15 August 1998
Debra Anne Cartwright 15 August 1998
Julia Victoria Hughes 15 August 1998
Sean McLoughlin 15 August 1998
James Victor Barker 15 August 1998
Samantha McFarland 15 August 1998
Breda Devine 15 August 1998
Veda Elizabeth Short 15 August 1998
Geraldine Breslin 15 August 1998
Fernando Blasco Baselga 15 August 1998
John Joseph 'Sean' McGrath 15 August 1998
Frank O'Reilly 05 September 1998
Brian Gerard Service 31 October 1998
Eamon Collins 27 January 1999
Rosemary Nelson 15 March 1999
Francis Joseph Curry 17 March 1999
Brendan Joseph Fegan 09 May 1999
Mary Elizabeth O'Neill 05 June 1999
Paul Anthony Downey 13 June 1999
Charles Bennett 30 July 1999
Richard Jameson 10 January 2000
Andrew Robb 19 February 2000
David McIlwaine 19 February 2000
Martin Taylor 26 May 2000
Edmund McCoy 28 May 2000
Andrew Cairns 12 July 2000
John Coulter 21 August 2000
Robert Francis Mahood 21 August 2000
Samuel Rockett 23 August 2000
Patrick Gerard Quinn 29 September 2000
Joseph Emanuel O'Connor 13 October 2000
David Greer 28 October 2000
Herbert Rice 31 October 2000
Thomas English 31 October 2000
Mark Alan Quail 01 November 2000
Trevor Kell 05 December 2000
Gary Moore 06 December 2000
James William Rockett 18 December 2000
George Hugh Legge 06 January 2001
Adrian Porter 13 March 2001
Trevor Thomas Lowry 31 March 2001
Graham Edward Marks 11 April 2001
Christopher Michael O'Kane 21 April 2001
Paul Daly 04 May 2001
Stephen James Manners 27 May 2001
John McCormick 23 June 2001
Ciaran Michael Cummings 04 July 2001
Gavin Brett 29 July 2001
Martin O'Hagan 28 September 2001
Colm Foy 29 October 2001
Christopher Charles Folliard 29 October 2001
Francis Martin Mulholland 03 December 2001
Derek Lenehan 11 December 2001
William Stobie 12 December 2001
Danny McColgan 12 January 2002
Matthew Burns 21 February 2002
Brian Henry McDonald 17 April 2002
William Morgan 06 July 2002
Gerard Lawlor 22 July 2002
David Samuel Caldwell 01 August 2002
Stephen Warnock 13 September 2002
Geoffrey Thomas Gray 04 October 2002
Alexander McKinley 07 October 2002
Mark Apsley 30 November 2002
David Cupples 22 December 2002
Jonathan Michael Stewart 27 December 2002
Robert William Green 02 January 2003
John Maurice Gregg 01 February 2003
Robert John Carson 01 February 2003
Michael O'Hare 01 March 2003
Keith Patrick Rogers 12 March 2003
James Johnston 08 May 2003
Alan McCullough 28 May 2003
Daniel McGurk 17 August 2003
Thomas Matthew John Allen 08 November 2003
James Alexander McMahon 20 November 2003
Andrew Cully 24 March 2004
Brian Martin Stewart 18 May 2004

http://www.psni.police.uk/good_friday_agreement.pdf

Great stuff.

2004 - 2

2003 - 10

2002 - 12

2001 - 16

2000 - 18

1999 - 7

1998 - 39

You notice a trend there?

As bad as Omagh was it was the single biggest event in NI history, only the Dublin and Warrenpoint attacks came close in a 30 year dirty war. Nothing similar happened outside those.

MadsL · 21-07-2012 02:31AM

K-9 wrote: »

Great stuff.

2004 - 2

2003 - 10

2002 - 12

2001 - 16

2000 - 18

1999 - 7

1998 - 39

You notice a trend there?

As bad as Omagh was it was the single biggest event in NI history, only the Dublin and Warrenpoint attacks came close in a 30 year dirty war. Nothing similar happened outside those.

Over a 100 names there.

And in your world view this is normal behaviour by sane individuals and to be expected in a "dirty war" even after a ceasefire? Really? Yet, the US has a psycho go crazy once in a while and it is condemned as a sick society. Can you really not see the irony?

And just in case you want to use the evasion of "but that's not Ireland" I'd place an easily won bet on what passport is carried by the perpetrators.

K-9 · 21-07-2012 02:40AM

MadsL wrote: »

Over a 100 names there.

And in your world view this is normal behaviour by sane individuals and to be expected in a "dirty war" even after a ceasefire? Really? Yet, the US has a psycho go crazy once in a while and it is condemned as a sick society. Can you really not see the irony?

And just in case you want to use the evasion of "but that's not Ireland" I'd place an easily won bet on what passport is carried by the perpetrators.

Yep, a 100 names up to 2004, how many since 2004, the last 10 years?

Why am I getting the feeling you are purposefully avoiding stats that don't suit you?

I haven't given my world view, if you'd looked for it rather than just introduce it just now, I'd be scathing of Omagh, Enniskillen, Warrenpoint etc.

PS. Please stop avoiding answering direct questions. It's rather annoying and doesn't further the debate at all, just muddies the waters.

MadsL · 21-07-2012 02:55AM

K-9 wrote: »

Yep, a 100 names up to 2004, how many since 2004, the last 10 years?

You asked, I answered. Now you want to change the terms of the answer.

Why am I getting the feeling you are purposefully avoiding stats that don't suit you?

Avoiding stats? I found a good source that including the names, now want me to find more?

I haven't given my world view, if you'd looked for it rather than just introduce it just now, I'd be scathing of Omagh, Enniskillen, Warrenpoint etc.

Rightly so. And that's the point I'm making, all this venom about American mass shootings and how uncivilised the US is and yet the numbers of citizens killed during the troubles far outweighs the amount of people killed by gun crazies in the US. Which would you say is more moral reprehensible, a mentally unstable nut shooting up a cinema or a zealot planning and planting a bomb in full knowledge of the consequences?

PS. Please stop avoiding answering direct questions. It's rather annoying and doesn't further the debate at all, just muddies the waters.

Perhaps you should stop changing the question then?

asherbassad · 21-07-2012 03:25AM

I could not give a flying fcuk about any of these people who were wounded or killed. Why all the crocodile tears and fake "horror"? 10 dead and 50 or 60 wounded....isn't that a standard day in yoo-ESS-ay anyway?
I'll not march into some talk about the NRA and have to listen to some mental midget vomit out the usual and predictable "guns don't kill people" cliches.
If Americans want to have this childish approach to lethal weapons then let them. 34,000 of the morons are sent packing via the wrong end of a gun each year. Kill away, I say. There are "winners" who state that this wouldn't have happenned if everyone in the cinema was packing a pistol. Such crap!

But you know something......I bet the manufacturer of metal detectors is licking his lips. They are about to be installed in every movie theatre now and the dopey Americans will gawk at them over their bucket of cheese and popcorn and drawl...." Ahhhhm so now, safe, y'all".

Can't wait to see how quick they introduce body scanners to movie theatres.

Dude111 · 21-07-2012 03:31AM

Welcome to boards.ie

Alot of things about this event seem strange

asherbassad · 21-07-2012 03:39AM

oh .....and by the way......10 Afghan villagers were killed today......it was a slow day.2 of them were under the age of FOUR.

That's just today.

Drone "pilots" are now getting bravery medals. Super! What bravery, exactly?

A massacre in America.....who gives a ****?
They like this kind of thing.

Dude111 · 21-07-2012 03:45AM

Yes the DRONE killings by US is disgusting thruout the world........ Im sick of it all to be honest with you!!

10 shot dead at Batman showing in Denver

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