Just a thought...

ShooterSF · 18-07-2012 10:57PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Just because I'm atheist doesn't mean I think peoples beliefs are silly. Its that disgusting attitude that gets me mad :mad:

You don't think any peoples' beliefs are silly? If a relative was ill and was convinced by a homeopath that they needed homeopathic treatment and nothing else you wouldn't have a problem with these beliefs, you wouldn't try and change them? Even though evidence suggests they are putting their life at risk. How odd. Really. I don't understand your mindset here.

I find beliefs silly all the time. Hell I find ones I held silly and I'm sure as I learn more in life others I hold now will be discarded as silly. To give every belief the same credibility is damaging to society, holds us as individuals and as a species back and is, erm, silly.

18-07-2012 10:58PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Just because I'm atheist doesn't mean I think peoples beliefs are silly. Its that disgusting attitude that gets me mad :mad:

But you do believe that some beliefs are silly.
Either you would admit that belief in psychics or fairies or whatever other nonsense is out there is silly, then of course you can't show how religions are different from them, making them just as silly in your eyes.
Or you don't admit those things are silly and they are just as valid as religious claims. And apparently religious don't like people making that claim for some reason.

he only difference between you and us mean atheists is we are just being honest with people and ourselves.

LambChop... · 19-07-2012 01:01AM

Nodin wrote: »

This has come up before, suprisingly enough....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

Firstly I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself and I certainly don't need someone like Bertrand Russell to do it for me .
Secondly (and More Importantly)
I did not ask anyone to prove the non existence of God I merely asked if there was any evidence of the non existence of God.

ShooterSF · 19-07-2012 01:42AM

LambChop... wrote: »

Firstly I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself and I certainly don't need someone like Bertrand Russell to do it for me .
Secondly (and More Importantly)
I did not ask anyone to prove the non existence of God I merely asked if there was any evidence of the non existence of God.

Plenty. The whole lack of evidence for one. And also the fact that any time humanity has discovered how something works that before hand they had attributed to a god it wasn't gods, should leave us very careful about doing the same now.

Kivaro · 19-07-2012 02:57AM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I never said it wasn't a fairytale, I was merely point out that your claims of plagiarism are very wrong.

Christianity is based on mythology.
Unless you think all the similarities are a coincidence.

If it was real, why isn't it unique? You know, really blow us out of the water with new concepts and customs.

Or is it all a test by god? Make it appear similar to cults and religions from past traditions, and then 'test' mankind to see if they would follow the true path?
Those who question the similarities are doomed to eternal damnation, those who don't question the oddities of the religion get to praise the almighty for eternity.

CerebralCortex · 19-07-2012 11:23AM

Kivaro wrote: »

Christianity is based on mythology.
Unless you think all the similarities are a coincidence.

If it was real, why isn't it unique? You know, really blow us out of the water with new concepts and customs.

Or is it all a test by god? Make it appear similar to cults and religions from past traditions, and then 'test' mankind to see if they would follow the true path?
Those who question the similarities are doomed to eternal damnation, those who don't question the oddities of the religion get to praise the almighty for eternity.

Who yet doesn't have the clairvoyance to know what the outcome will be regardless of our actions.

magicbastarder · 19-07-2012 11:36AM

LambChop... wrote: »

I did not ask anyone to prove the non existence of God I merely asked if there was any evidence of the non existence of God.

what form might such evidence take, apart from lack of evidence?
something which does not exist does not leave a trail of breadcrumbs leading to its non-existence.

ShooterSF · 19-07-2012 11:42AM

Kivaro wrote: »

Or is it all a test by god? Make it appear similar to cults and religions from past traditions, and then 'test' mankind to see if they would follow the true path?

Just a thought (to steal the thread title), assuming what we know of the FSM, often drunk, bit of a prankster, twisted sense of humour; Would it be worth considering that if he actually does exist he is very likely to reveal himself through someone's imagination when trying to come up with a satirical religion? The biggest hoax ever, reveal yourself in a way that no one will believe in you. In a way that people use you as an example of why the idea of theism is ludicrous when you actually happen to be the only real deity, it's almost poetic. Seems like something he'd do...

Penn · 19-07-2012 12:02PM

ShooterSF wrote: »

Just a thought (to steal the thread title), assuming what we know of the FSM, often drunk, bit of a prankster, twisted sense of humour; Would it be worth considering that if he actually does exist he is very likely to reveal himself through someone's imagination when trying to come up with a satirical religion? The biggest hoax ever, reveal yourself in a way that no one will believe in you. In a way that people use you as an example of why the idea of theism is ludicrous when you actually happen to be the only real deity, it's almost poetic. Seems like something he'd do...

Kidchameleon · 19-07-2012 04:57PM

marienbad wrote: »

I don't follow you Kidchameleon , surely you think some peoples beliefs are silly and some are even dangerous . Why is that disgusting ? Why are you giving a pass to religious beliefs ? Would you do the same for the KKK or the NSDAP or The Psychics Of Ireland ?

Why would you defend beliefs you don't believe in ? Particularly religious beliefs as they are well able to defend themselves and when in positions of power have no problem abusing it to suppress any disenting belief.

I have no problem what so ever with peoples beliefs. Beliefs are harmless. Christianity is harmless. And yes I will defend people who hold these beliefs. I would do the same for a Muslim or any other religion. I would defend an atheist who was being attacked for their lack of belief. I would not however defend a Catholic who thinks the likes of contraception is bad, or a priest who is a pedophile. I would not defend an atheist who was ripping the piss out of someone who has beliefs.

Beliefs are fine, people or organizations who use those beliefs to control and abuse are where the problem lies.

Do you people in here actually know that the church is a different entity entirely to Christianity?

a5y · 19-07-2012 05:45PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I have no problem what so ever with peoples beliefs. Beliefs are harmless.

Beliefs have consequences. When stirred to action by leaders those consequences cover everything from back street abortions to opposing the use of condoms to fight the spread of AIDs.

Beliefs are harmless? Bullsh't.

Christianity is harmless.

Child sex abuse coverups.

Also: Religious crusades. The inquisition. Christianity had total power and the illustrations from that period of time are today used as reference for depictions of hell on earth.

That you don't realise something is harmful, or ignoring evidence that it is harmful, does not actually make it harmless.

And yes I will defend people who hold these beliefs.

I eagerly await your defence of the points I have listed above, but predict you'll ignore it all.

I would do the same for a Muslim or any other religion. I would defend an atheist who was being attacked for their lack of belief. I would not however defend a Catholic who thinks the likes of contraception is bad, or a priest who is a pedophile. I would not defend an atheist who was ripping the piss out of someone who has beliefs.

So what you're saying is you're utterly arbitrary and there is no pattern to what you will or will not defend? Because I think you should start explaining why you'll defend x and not defend y; the list is just a series of unimpressive and unpersuasive disconnected statements without providing the reasoning behind it.

Beliefs are fine, people or organizations who use those beliefs to control and abuse are where the problem lies.

Catholic Church? Fine? Not fine? Which is it? And why is it fine or not fine?

Do you people in here actually know that the church is a different entity entirely to Christianity?

You do realise that when the church and Christianity share the same core beliefs and we find them to be as imaginary as unicorns, it is not necessary in discussions to take a moment to mention this distinction because it applies to both "the church" and "Christianity" equally? :pac:

19-07-2012 05:51PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I have no problem what so ever with peoples beliefs. Beliefs are harmless. Christianity is harmless.

And so are other inherently silly beliefs such as fairies or other madey uppy gods or psychics.

Yet you're simply refusing to state whether or not you find these beliefs silly.

Kidchameleon · 19-07-2012 06:25PM

a5y wrote: »

Beliefs have consequences. When stirred to action by leaders those consequences cover everything from back street abortions to opposing the use of condoms to fight the spread of AIDs.

Beliefs are harmless? Bullsh't.

Child sex abuse coverups.

Also: Religious crusades. The inquisition. Christianity had total power and the illustrations from that period of time are today used as reference for depictions of hell on earth.

That you don't realise something is harmful, or ignoring evidence that it is harmful, does not actually make it harmless.

I eagerly await your defence of the points I have listed above, but predict you'll ignore it all.

So what you're saying is you're utterly arbitrary and there is no pattern to what you will or will not defend? Because I think you should start explaining why you'll defend x and not defend y; the list is just a series of unimpressive and unpersuasive disconnected statements without providing the reasoning behind it.

Catholic Church? Fine? Not fine? Which is it? And why is it fine or not fine?

You do realise that when the church and Christianity share the same core beliefs and we find them to be as imaginary as unicorns, it is not necessary in discussions to take a moment to mention this distinction because it applies to both "the church" and "Christianity" equally? :pac:

Did you read my post at all? Ill simplify it for you:

Christianity good, Catholic church bad

Kidchameleon · 19-07-2012 06:37PM

King Mob wrote: »

And so are other inherently silly beliefs such as fairies or other madey uppy gods or psychics.

Yet you're simply refusing to state whether or not you find these beliefs silly.

Weather I find such things silly is none of your business. Nor is it my business to attack those that do believe these things. If a man beleives there are pink unicorns living on Mars, I couldnt give a toss. If he sets up a pink unicorn on Mars church, I couldn't give a toss. However, if that church was to cover up child abuse for example, I would certainly have a problem with it. Not with its followers beliefs, but with the church itself.

19-07-2012 06:47PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Weather I find such things silly is none of your business. Nor is it my business to attack those that do believe these things. If a man beleives there are pink unicorns living on Mars, I couldnt give a toss. If he sets up a pink unicorn on Mars church, I couldn't give a toss. However, if that church was to cover up child abuse for example, I would certainly have a problem with it. Not with its followers beliefs, but with the church itself.

But you clearly believe that the beliefs are silly, you just don't want to be honest about it. And further you can't distinguish between them and religions, so you do find religions silly.

Other atheists are not comfortable pretending that clearly nonsense beliefs are not nonsense or valid reasons to make any sort of decision or opinion.

Note how the rest of us aren't telling you that you shouldn't be expressing you opinion, we are just trying to get you to support it with something resembling a good reason.
And since you clearly can't, we are probably going to give it the mocking an unsupported, nonsense opinion deserves.

Kidchameleon · 19-07-2012 06:54PM

King Mob wrote: »

But you clearly believe that the beliefs are silly, you just don't want to be honest about it. And further you can't distinguish between them and religions, so you do find religions silly.

Other atheists are not comfortable pretending that clearly nonsense beliefs are not nonsense or valid reasons to make any sort of decision or opinion.

Note how the rest of us aren't telling you that you shouldn't be expressing you opinion, we are just trying to get you to support it with something resembling a good reason.
And since you clearly can't, we are probably going to give it the mocking an unsupported, nonsense opinion deserves.

Your post is a little confusing. Do I find Christian beliefs silly? Nope. Do I find Muslim beliefs silly? Nope. Do I find atheist beliefs silly? Nope.

Do I know silly Christians? Yep. Do I know silly Muslims? Yep. Do I know silly atheists? Yep.

I don't actually know anyone who believes in fairy's so I cant comment on that one, sorry!

marienbad · 19-07-2012 07:01PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I have no problem what so ever with peoples beliefs. Beliefs are harmless. Christianity is harmless. And yes I will defend people who hold these beliefs. I would do the same for a Muslim or any other religion. I would defend an atheist who was being attacked for their lack of belief. I would not however defend a Catholic who thinks the likes of contraception is bad, or a priest who is a pedophile. I would not defend an atheist who was ripping the piss out of someone who has beliefs.

Beliefs are fine, people or organizations who use those beliefs to control and abuse are where the problem lies.

Do you people in here actually know that the church is a different entity entirely to Christianity?

As I don't believe it is possible to be this naive I can only assume you hav'nt thought this through.

You can't separate beliefs and the consequences of those beliefs . Beliefs are not a stand alone object like a table or a gun or a picture - they are an intregral part of the person holding them.

and as for this atheist bashing christianity lark - where are you living ? That is a david and Goliath argument if every there was one - this country is 85% Christion and you are concerned with the big bully atheist ??

At least we don't burn them at the stake.

19-07-2012 07:16PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Your post is a little confusing. Do I find Christian beliefs silly? Nope. Do I find Muslim beliefs silly? Nope. Do I find atheist beliefs silly? Nope.

And do you find a belief in fairies or psychics etc silly? Yes or no?
It's a very simple question, but like most believers you are more willing to dodge it dishonestly than answer it honestly.

You either believe that clearly silly beliefs such as fairies or psychics are silly or you don't.
I'm not asking about people who do believe in that crap, I'm asking about the belief.

But brushing past your dodging assuming you have some scrap of common sense you know that such beliefs are silly, but you realise that you can't show how they are different for the beliefs you don't think are silly. So to maintain you original claim you are refusing to answer a simple question so you don't have to acknowledge the crap logic you've forced yourself into.

Kidchameleon · 19-07-2012 07:35PM

marienbad wrote: »

As I don't believe it is possible to be this naive I can only assume you hav'nt thought this through.

You can't separate beliefs and the consequences of those beliefs . Beliefs are not a stand alone object like a table or a gun or a picture - they are an intregral part of the person holding them.

and as for this atheist bashing christianity lark - where are you living ? That is a david and Goliath argument if every there was one - this country is 85% Christion and you are concerned with the big bully atheist ??

At least we don't burn them at the stake.

I have indeed thought it through. You can easily seperate beliefs and consequences. There are plenty of Christians (I would say the majority) who dont agree with the church on many issues such as contraception, gay marridge, women priests. Next door to my mothers house there is a convent, our family are good friends with the nuns there. I remember when Ratzinger became pope they were all very upset. They knew he would be stubborn, they wanted more liberal leader. These are nuns who are 70+ years in the church! So you can imagine how the average Mary and Betty feel about the church. The whole 85% Christian is waffle. Are you going by the census? People just tick the Christian box, people who were baptized, confirmed, who haven't been to mass since they were kids. Technically, yes, they are Christian (and so are you probably) but essentially they are not (more and more "Christians" are being married in civil ceremonies).

Burning at the stake, crusades, child abuse, sexism, homophobia... All Catholic church bile. The church was set up based on Christianity but even hundreds of years ago it was far far wide of the supposed teachings of Jesus. If Jesus were real, I really couldn't see him covering up child abuse, being sexist, killing, refusing to marry two guys that love each other... Sure the man is apparently a feckin legend! You don't need to be a bloody brain surgeon to see there is a HUGE difference between Christianity and the RCC. A difference which was always there and is growing and growing...

I think its quite possible that there were more gospels that are in the bible of today. These would have been destroyed to maintain power in the CHURCH. Things like Jesus being married would have been covered up to keep the ladies out of power.

^^I understand my last paragraph may be conspiracy theory nonsense so I don't vouch for its validity. I do believe that the gospel of Judas was found, and believed to be genuine, would anyone here have a link to good info on that? Id be interested to read about that.

Knasher · 19-07-2012 07:47PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I have no problem what so ever with peoples beliefs. Beliefs are harmless. Christianity is harmless.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Weather I find such things silly is none of your business. Nor is it my business to attack those that do believe these things. If a man beleives there are pink unicorns living on Mars, I couldnt give a toss. If he sets up a pink unicorn on Mars church, I couldn't give a toss. However, if that church was to cover up child abuse for example, I would certainly have a problem with it. Not with its followers beliefs, but with the church itself.

Child abuse is a bad example, because that is obviously a case where the organization in charge is responsible and not so much the religion itself.

Take instead something like the creationist movement in America. The beliefs they hold are in direct conflict with the theory of evolution. Ultimately their goal is to remove the theory entirely from the school system so children are only taught their view of creation, but they have got a little more coy with it after their legal defeat in the scopes trial. I say legal because ultimately they still got evolution suppressed, at least for a while, as it stands only 50% of the country accept evolution, which is one of the very lowest rates for a country with a highly educated populace.

They aren't some sinister organization trying to perpetrate a crime or cover one up. They simply have a belief which is in conflict with science and they are trying to protect their belief.

Evolution however is the very cornerstone of biology and it is immensely important to scientific progress in medicine and agriculture. It's removal would cripple the next generation of scientists in these fields. To take a more obvious and extreme example in the same vein, look at the effects that Lysenkoism had on Soviet Russia, even today people estimate that biological science in Russia is 10 years behind the rest of the world. For a scientific powerhouse like America to adopt such an anti-scientific stance like creationism would have detrimental effects worldwide. Now obviously, even if it were completely removed, there are people who would study evolution outside school and educate themselves to a degree that they would still be able to contribute to the field. And most universities do their best to repair the mis-education of the highschool system from the first time that evolution was effectively removed. But it absolutely had an effect on funding and research in the field, on the general public understanding of biology and science in general, and provides a fertile ground for more harmful misconceptions like the anti-vaxx movement.

But ultimately it is just a relatively small group of people who honestly believe in their religion, trying to protect it from reality. But their belief is not harmless.

Kidchameleon · 19-07-2012 08:17PM

King Mob wrote: »

And do you find a belief in fairies or psychics etc silly? Yes or no?
It's a very simple question, but like most believers you are more willing to dodge it dishonestly than answer it honestly.

You either believe that clearly silly beliefs such as fairies or psychics are silly or you don't.
I'm not asking about people who do believe in that crap, I'm asking about the belief.

But brushing past your dodging assuming you have some scrap of common sense you know that such beliefs are silly, but you realise that you can't show how they are different for the beliefs you don't think are silly. So to maintain you original claim you are refusing to answer a simple question so you don't have to acknowledge the crap logic you've forced yourself into.

Psycics: When I first got my house, I would always have a insense candle in my bedroom at night. One night in particular I lit a candle and went into the living room. Ended up falling asleep on the sofa (probably after fapping!!) I was asleep for about an hour and I was woken up by a mans voice calling me. It took me a few seconds to come to and I thought it must have been a dream. Then I heard the voice again! It was coming from the bedroom, I went upstairs, ****ting myself I might add, the curtain was up in flames! Would have been a disaster if not for that voice... Now I am a scientific person, I thought about this rationally, was it the neighbors calling me? Well no, after I put the flames out there was no one there, none of them knew me at all anyhow, I had only moved in... Was it somebody outside? No, the voice was definitely coming from the bedroom. Now could this be one big co incedence? Maybe, but its enough to make me think the psycic ability is not silly. Sure, the scumbags who take money off the vulnerable purporting to have psychic ability, thats silly. But scientifically, we know very little about the mind so we cant rule out the possibility. Perhaps in time, when science figures it out, I will say its silly but for now, no. Oh and by the way, I'm not the only person I know who has had unexplained experiences like this. I would bet there are people here on this very forum who have had experiences that they cant explain. No chance of getting someone here to admit it though, it would seriously discredit their argument.

Fairies: You do realize the vastness of the universe? The huge diversity of life on our planet alone? Well who can rule out the existence of fairy like creatures somewhere out there on a distant planet? Someone thinks there are fairies living in my bedroom, yeah thats probably silly, because I can go into my bedroom and clearly see there are no fairies there! But fairies existing somewhere, no I don't think that would be silly. If somebody told me there were pink unicorns living on the moon would I think that was silly? Yes I would, I'm pretty sure there are none there, I look at the moon myself with a telescope and see no evidence of them, I read about the Apollo missions and there is no mention of them. But if someone told me there are pink unicorns somewhere in the universe I would not think that was silly. You see, flamingos have a pink color, bulls have horns and horses certainly exist. So I know that its definily possible for an animal to be pink. I know an animal can have a horn (no pun intended!). And I know an animal can look like a horse. What are the chances an animal could have all three attributes somewhere in the universe? Well I'd say unlikely, but silly? Definitely not. There are so many planets out there of all shapes and sizes and there are probably trillions upon trillions of planets very similar to Earth. I personally think giraffes look mad, like something out of a fairy tale...

19-07-2012 08:41PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

No chance of getting someone here to admit it though, it would seriously discredit their argument.

You're absolutely right. Had you any credibility that poorly written waffle would have totally destroyed it.

So since then you don't think that any beliefs are silly and even believe ones that are quite silly, how are they different to religious ones?

How do you think a religious person would feel having you compare their religion to something asinine like psychic powers and how is that any different, or any less offensive than us calling their beliefs silly?

swampgas · 19-07-2012 08:57PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I have no problem what so ever with peoples beliefs. Beliefs are harmless. Christianity is harmless. [...]

You think it is completely harmless for people to have religious beliefs? I have to disagree with you there.

I know quite a few people who have made themselves miserable because of religious belief. They beat themselves up for thinking "bad thoughts", or feel guilty for something as normal as masturbation. Or feel guilty because they use contraception or because they haven't sold everything they have and given it to the poor.

Christianity does a good line in thought-crime: thinking bad thoughts is pretty much as bad as acting them out. That's a real guilt trip for anyone unfortunate enough to have been indoctrinated with some of these so-called "harmless" beliefs, and who hasn't yet figured out that it's actually a load of malignant nonsense.

marienbad · 19-07-2012 10:21PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I have indeed thought it through. You can easily seperate beliefs and consequences. There are plenty of Christians (I would say the majority) who dont agree with the church on many issues such as contraception, gay marridge, women priests. Next door to my mothers house there is a convent, our family are good friends with the nuns there. I remember when Ratzinger became pope they were all very upset. They knew he would be stubborn, they wanted more liberal leader. These are nuns who are 70+ years in the church! So you can imagine how the average Mary and Betty feel about the church. The whole 85% Christian is waffle. Are you going by the census? People just tick the Christian box, people who were baptized, confirmed, who haven't been to mass since they were kids. Technically, yes, they are Christian (and so are you probably) but essentially they are not (more and more "Christians" are being married in civil ceremonies).

Burning at the stake, crusades, child abuse, sexism, homophobia... All Catholic church bile. The church was set up based on Christianity but even hundreds of years ago it was far far wide of the supposed teachings of Jesus. If Jesus were real, I really couldn't see him covering up child abuse, being sexist, killing, refusing to marry two guys that love each other... Sure the man is apparently a feckin legend! You don't need to be a bloody brain surgeon to see there is a HUGE difference between Christianity and the RCC. A difference which was always there and is growing and growing...

I think its quite possible that there were more gospels that are in the bible of today. These would have been destroyed to maintain power in the CHURCH. Things like Jesus being married would have been covered up to keep the ladies out of power.

^^I understand my last paragraph may be conspiracy theory nonsense so I don't vouch for its validity. I do believe that the gospel of Judas was found, and believed to be genuine, would anyone here have a link to good info on that? Id be interested to read about that.

You do realize you are contradicting yourself all over the place with this post ? The Catholic Church as well as being an organisation is also a belief - e,g Catholicism - and then you go on a mad rant against the beliefs of over a billion people !

How does that make you any different than what you are complaining about

And as the 85% being waffle - how do you know ? lets have the decency to call people as they designate themselves. |You or I have no way of knowing how good or bad they are at that particular designation .

Why not go back to basic liberal thinking and agree to defend to the death the right to hold any a religous belief and at the same time expect them to defend to the death my right to mock it.

Just as an aside where do you come down on the Islamic cartoons issue ?

Kidchameleon · 19-07-2012 11:58PM

swampgas wrote: »

You think it is completely harmless for people to have religious beliefs? I have to disagree with you there.

I know quite a few people who have made themselves miserable because of religious belief. They beat themselves up for thinking "bad thoughts", or feel guilty for something as normal as masturbation. Or feel guilty because they use contraception or because they haven't sold everything they have and given it to the poor.

Christianity does a good line in thought-crime: thinking bad thoughts is pretty much as bad as acting them out. That's a real guilt trip for anyone unfortunate enough to have been indoctrinated with some of these so-called "harmless" beliefs, and who hasn't yet figured out that it's actually a load of malignant nonsense.

Ive never met anyone who ever felt bad about masturbating. The fuq? Somebody actually said that to you? Have you ever read the passages in the bible that relate to masturbation? They could mean anything, the churches spin on it is why your friends feel bad. As for having bad thoughts, I would imagine the church does not mind people having bad thoughts, that would be ridiculous. They do however mind if you act on them. Can you get me a link to any info where the bible says you cant think a bad thought? As for the contraception thing, well thats completely church talk. You see back in the day when Jesus was supposedly walking on water, there was no such thing as Durex so I'd imagine the lord wasn't too bothered about that.

Wiggles88 · 20-07-2012 12:04AM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Ive never met anyone who ever felt bad about masturbating. The fuq? Somebody actually said that to you? Have you ever read the passages in the bible that relate to masturbation? They could mean anything, the churches spin on it is why your friends feel bad. As for having bad thoughts, I would imagine the church does not mind people having bad thoughts, that would be ridiculous. They do however mind if you act on them. Can you get me a link to any info where the bible says you cant think a bad thought? As for the contraception thing, well thats completely church talk. You see back in the day when Jesus was supposedly walking on water, there was no such thing as Durex so I'd imagine the lord wasn't too bothered about that.

Right there in the 10th commandment, simply coveting something gets you a ticket to hell.

Kidchameleon · 20-07-2012 12:07AM

marienbad wrote: »

You do realize you are contradicting yourself all over the place with this post ? The Catholic Church as well as being an organisation is also a belief - e,g Catholicism - and then you go on a mad rant against the beliefs of over a billion people !

How does that make you any different than what you are complaining about

And as the 85% being waffle - how do you know ? lets have the decency to call people as they designate themselves. |You or I have no way of knowing how good or bad they are at that particular designation .

Why not go back to basic liberal thinking and agree to defend to the death the right to hold any a religous belief and at the same time expect them to defend to the death my right to mock it.

Just as an aside where do you come down on the Islamic cartoons issue ?

Catholicism is just another word for the church so don't be twisting my words. Nice try though. Again, the Catholic church and Catholicism couldn't be further away from Christianity at this stage, and their getting worse.

I would say 99% of the Catholics I know use contraception, have sex before marriage, don't go to mass, use the lords name in vein, commit adultery, steal, lie, the list goes on... So most Catholics I know are not practicing Catholics, that was all I said in my post, I never said they were not Catholic.

Kidchameleon · 20-07-2012 12:19AM

Wiggles88 wrote: »

Right there in the 10th commandment, simply coveting something gets you a ticket to hell.

I think if the interpretation of that commandment were as simple as that, then everyone, absolutely everyone would be in hell. Jesus would be there (he got angry at least once in the bible and threw a table over), the pope (Ratzinger must have thought bad thoughts at this stage), everyone. Were all F**KED!!!

robindch · 20-07-2012 12:34AM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Christianity good, Catholic church bad

I'm intrigued - what exactly is good about christianity, that wouldn't be better without it?

whatsup? · 20-07-2012 12:59AM

King Mob wrote: »

Why are you allowed to automatically assume you are correct?

I know i'm correct in the same way you know you are correct. I respect your beliefs.

King Mob wrote: »

What if just declared that the question was answerable because I know it is answerable? Is this a good reason to accept it is? If not how come your insistence is more valid?

I suppose it would. But I strongly believe (not speaking religiously) that we will never know why there is something in place of nothing. Even if we discover why the universe came into being (big bang and all that) we could always ask, why. And for something to be created it has to come from something, where did the universe come from? Where did that come from? what caused the big bang etc etc.

King Mob wrote: »

Your arguments mean you have to believe in thor and fairies and other nonsensical things just as much as your god. Yet you ignore it because you reject the reasons you use to justify your god when they are applied to other things because you know they are flawed.

Why does a belief in any supernatural always have to be "silly" in your view? It is not silly, it's what people believe in. I know some people who believe in spirits and "fairies" for need of better word. Not the fairytale kind but some sort of unexplainable presence in nature. I certainly dont find them silly instead it's highly interesting.
I know my belief in God is probably matches the fervor held by an ancients person who believed in their God. Does that bother me? No. Even though their God has proven to be untrue. It really doesn't bother me. Their God was always going to be proven untrue as the Christian God is the only God. (my view! not yours of course.)
Just because some people believe in Gods I don't believe in (pagans etc) doesn't mean i'm wrong.

King Mob wrote: »

You realise that people can have just as much faith in absolute crap as you do in your god, and you don't want to admit the possibility that you are just the same, even though you know such a possibility is both inescapable and likely

I do admit that! I thought that was clear in my other posts (obv wasn't! I tend to waffle on I know!) Societies place Gods in areas where they have no understanding of. My belief In God today is probably held in the same regards as a belief in Zeus 3000 years ago. But does that that make my God unreal because Zeus is unreal? Absolutely not. The reason Jesus came was to reveal the true God and put the false one to beds. There was always going to be false Gods and people were always going to worship them in the same way we worship Christ today. But to say our God today is false because they were false is incorrect.

King Mob wrote: »

You really should be wondering and asking yourself why you have to engage in such dishonesty to maintain your point.

I'm sorry if you got that impression, I'm definitely not being dishonest I've always tried to explain my stance as best I can.

Just a thought...

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