201 Class Locomotives

Oscar Bravo · 12-07-2012 09:32PM

This evening loco 222 worked the Ballina-Waterford timber train arriving into Claremorris at 1655 and crossing 215 working a second Northwall-Ballina IWT liner there.

Sligo Quay · 13-07-2012 04:43PM

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I know 208/9 were in NIR blue and looked class.

They certainly where, i remember them in Connolly in blue when Id be getting the Sligo train, i only wish Id taken a few snaps, my big regret, good picture snaps of the nir 201s in blue are very rare, heres 1 here I found http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=261641&nseq=46 we all have regrets, should start a thread on photo regrets, thats mine.

13-07-2012 05:59PM

Sligo Quay wrote: »

They certainly where, i remember them in Connolly in blue when Id be getting the Sligo train, i only wish Id taken a few snaps, my big regret, good picture snaps of the nir 201s in blue are very rare, heres 1 here I found http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=261641&nseq=46 we all have regrets, should start a thread on photo regrets, thats mine.

GTE · 15-07-2012 05:09PM

For someone interested in the trains but who has no idea what all this HEP, nonPP and other things mean:

Can anyone give me details about the 201 class?
How many there are, what were meant to do what in the beginning and what they are at now. I take it they are hitting reliability problems.

Ill check Wiki now anyway, but I just wanted the lay man low down on these

Jamie2k9 · 15-07-2012 05:24PM

HEP = Head End Power used on Belfast service only but not for much longer.

PP = Push/Pull - loco powers the DVT to operate the train without changing roud the loco.

Non PP = Not Push/Pull (can't operate on Cork or Belfast lines)

Max Speed 100mph

Only certain 201's allowed to operate in NI as all are not fitted with Signal Equipment.

Don't know the exact number but they is prob around 30 ish of which two are owend by NI railways but around half of them are in storage as they are not required becasue the majority of triains are now DMU. They only work the Cork, Belfast and the odd freight service.

There isn't a major reliability except the Belfast oens because HEP causes problems but I expect they are having maintance done more often which does help.

15-07-2012 05:38PM

There's 34 of the 201s, delivered between 1994 and 1995. They're heavy locos at 112 tonnes (without fuel) and are basically freight locos geared for passenger service. The combination of high speed and heavy weight is bad for the track.

10 (201-205 and 210-214) aren't equipped for push-pull operation. Push-pull is like with the Cork and Belfast trains, where one side is an unpowered driving cab. The locomotive can then be driven from this cab.

The Belfast service uses coaches which, at present, do not contain a separate generator to power the lighting and heating in the coaches. Therefore HEP (Head end power) is provided from the 201 for this purpose. This is common in other countries but the implementation in the 201s is flawed. The alternator produces AC so it must be turned at a constant speed to maintain a 50Hz AC field rate. The 201 does this by driving the engine constantly at full bore (900 rpm). This is what causes the reliability issues. There is a plan to reuse some of the old Mark 3 generators to power the coaches, eliminating the need for HEP.

dowlingm · 15-07-2012 07:08PM

the 201 class have 12 cylinder EMD 710 class engines. Very popular engine series in North America including for passenger use (F59PH, MP40 for instance). Two stroke engine, 3,000hp maximum.

HEP mode means that some of the engine power is used by an alternator to generate electricity, replacing the previous IE arrangement of separate generator vans.

HEP mode as implemented in 201s means that the engine must run at a high rate at all times rather than throttling down to idle at stations. Running at high rate all day is at an extreme end of the likely duty cycle for any engine. Many implementations in the US use 16-cylinder engines, variable speed alternators or mount separate generators on the loco. Unfortunately the fact that the 201s have a cab at both ends takes away a space where a generator could be fitted as in the current refit of VIA Rail's F40s from HEP to generator operation.

Since there's nowhere to fit a generator and IE/NIR did not choose to install them in Enterprise driving trailers as was later done for the Mk4s, Enterprise locos tend to get stressed by day after day of high power use. That is why they are now swapped over to Mark 4 or freight service, where the engines can use a more conventional power regime and spread the wear over the fleet.

Captain Chaos · 15-07-2012 07:20PM

Just to add, the only 201s that are currently allowed to work Enterprise services as they have the extra NIR signaling equipment TPWS fitted are:

206-209,227,228,230,231,233.

dowlingm · 16-07-2012 02:19AM

The 111s were supposed to be made PP-able for the Gatwicks - if that had been completed then in a pinch they could power a DD set with an EGV (since they weren't equipped for HEP and if they were the loss of traction power would likely have limited maximum speed)

16-07-2012 07:53PM

dowlingm wrote: »

The 111s were supposed to be made PP-able for the Gatwicks - if that had been completed then in a pinch they could power a DD set with an EGV (since they weren't equipped for HEP and if they were the loss of traction power would likely have limited maximum speed)

Does anyone know whether the 111s were to use the IE or BR push-pull system?

Losty Dublin · 16-07-2012 08:05PM

dowlingm wrote: »

The 111s were supposed to be made PP-able for the Gatwicks - if that had been completed then in a pinch they could power a DD set with an EGV (since they weren't equipped for HEP and if they were the loss of traction power would likely have limited maximum speed)

The 111 class engines had HEP fitted for NIR cross border service. They to had massive engine wear issues and low availability as a result unlike their virtually identical 071 cousins so refitting was never going to be considered. There was a few 071 engines which had PP controls installed for working the Mark 3 sets at one stage.

karisni wrote:

Does anyone know whether the 111s were to use the IE or BR push-pull system?

I'd guess it was the BR system, wasn't it what existed in the Gatwicks?

dowlingm · 16-07-2012 08:33PM

with all the money they lashed out on the DBSO I guess I thought conversion to GM style PP was part of it. What a fiasco that was.

101sean · 16-07-2012 08:45PM

Enterprise 209 was on Dublin - Cork run this evening, passed MP93 at around 19.30

Losty Dublin · 16-07-2012 08:46PM

dowlingm wrote: »

with all the money they lashed out on the DBSO I guess I thought conversion to GM style PP was part of it. What a fiasco that was.

NIR paid a six figure to buy a second hand DVT carriage and it's refitting and conversion for the Gatwick set from One in the UK.

Numbered 8918, it was delivered 14 months late in June 2009, a week after the set were withdrawn from service!

Captain Chaos · 17-07-2012 08:24PM

Did an Enterprise set fail this evening? Just spotted an NIR C3K 2x3 working south through Clongriffin just after 20:00.

Oscar Bravo · 18-07-2012 09:55PM

234 arrived into Westport this evening,eventually, with an empty timber train.073 which worked it from Waterford to Kildare ran LE to Inchicore. 230 strolled through Manulla junction this afternoon working the NorthWall-Ballina IWT liner.

corktina · 21-07-2012 02:45PM

Oscar Bravo wrote: »

234 arrived into Westport this evening,eventually, with an empty timber train.073 which worked it from Waterford to Kildare ran LE to Inchicore. 230 strolled through Manulla junction this afternoon working the NorthWall-Ballina IWT liner.

writing on the walls for the 071s?

Captain Chaos · 21-07-2012 11:53PM

corktina wrote: »

writing on the walls for the 071s?

I'd say it's down to IE neglecting them like they did to the 141/181s and just let them fall apart at the end. Either that or they are cutting maintenance man hours down to a minimum as part of cost cutting and reducing staff numbers.

Those 071s could just keep going and going. Look at the EMD GP35s and 40s in the US. Built around the same time as the 141s and are still going strong.

Losty Dublin · 22-07-2012 02:22AM

corktina wrote: »

writing on the walls for the 071s?

The Waterford freights often facilitate loco swaps at Kildare to allow them to get into the shop for servicing. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

corktina · 22-07-2012 09:51AM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The Waterford freights often facilitate loco swaps at Kildare to allow them to get into the shop for servicing. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

im not going to.....someone will no doubt preserve one and park it usefully under a tarpaulin 50 miles from the netweok next the sea....

Oscar Bravo · 22-07-2012 10:02PM

234 in Westport with timber train(out Tuesday). 226 in Ballina.230 also in Ballina coupled to the IWT,ready for the morning. (073 noted outside Inchicore yesterday morning)

Oscar Bravo · 25-07-2012 10:57PM

230 passed through Manulla Junction at 1425 today with the Northwall-Ballina IWT liner. 234 passed through Manulla Junction at 1655 today with a day late Westport-Waterford laden timber.

Oscar Bravo · 27-07-2012 11:23PM

222 is sitting in Ballina for the weekend after working the Northwall-Ballina IWT liner today.It "ran around" the liner once it arrived in Ballina.

Jamie2k9 · 28-07-2012 01:12PM

208, 218, 219, 223 have all operated a number of Cork services over the last 3 days. 208 was in Heuston and was replaced by another loco didn't get number last night.

Captain Chaos · 31-07-2012 04:32PM

228 with DD set 9004 was on the 11:00 Connolly - Central.

Just noticed today the DVTs still have the the drop head knuckle couplers fitted. I don't see why they still have them fitted as any loco having to rescue a set will not a knuckle coupler of it's own in place and will still use the standard screw hook method.

They were removed from the Mk4 DVTs after one was involved in a crash, the knuckle came off and went back along the underside of the train causing all sorts of damage to other coaches in the set like a wrecking ball.

corktina · 01-08-2012 06:49AM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

208, 218, 219, 223 have all operated a number of Cork services over the last 3 days. 208 was in Heuston and was replaced by another loco didn't get number last night.

208 still on Cork services last night....damn, Im a Trainspotter...

Captain Chaos · 01-08-2012 12:15PM

corktina wrote: »

208 still on Cork services last night....damn, Im a Trainspotter...

Are you sure?? I saw it on Enterprise duties yesterday and took a pic of it today on the 11:00 Connolly to Central, it was hauling DD set 9003.

corktina · 01-08-2012 02:16PM

yep im sure

Captain Chaos · 01-08-2012 02:22PM

corktina wrote: »

yep im sure

This is 208 as in 8208 and the only 201 in the current Enterprise livery, impossible to mix up with any other 201 from any view point or distance.

I saw it last night at 8ish through Clongriffin pushing an Enterprise set. And it's still on Enterprise duties today.

209 is on Cork links currently though.

corktina · 01-08-2012 03:00PM

it was in Enerprise livery alright and i thought it said 208...didnt say 8208 so must have been 209 i guess...

201 Class Locomotives

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