A dublin orange parade?

junder · 07-07-2012 9:12pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

whitelines wrote: »

Was it sex Northern Catholics did better? Hmmmm. I thought you could have sex without fear of having ten plus kids, if you took the necessary steps. But then that would depend on you not having to ask the local priest how to behave in bed wouldn't it?

I sense a real embarrassment amongst those Irish of a Catholic background regarding this issue. But that's hardly surprising is it? It IS embarrassing.

eh?

Stereotyping there a bit are we?
Try asking a Unionist about homosexuality...that'll bring you back a century or so where you seem to be living!

I am a unionist, to honest I would discribe
Myself as a loyaliest. Feel free to ask me about a persons sexuality, race, gender, religion or indeed ethnicity. Here i am the very embodyment of that community that is anathema to what you believe in, ask what you want?

Cú Giobach · 07-07-2012 9:15pm

whitelines wrote: »

Truly appalling analogy. Just replace the words 'island of Ireland' with 'British isles' to see what I mean.

The figures seem to show the Irish peoples priority is to live in the part of the British isles called Ireland irrespective of who governs it, while to many of those from the unionist persuasion the priority is to live within the territory of the UK, while the 26 counties were part of that all was grand, but once that was no longer the case they moved according to their priority.

or would you prefer the one below (which interestingly still makes the point).

The figures seem to show the Irish peoples priority is to live in the British isles irrespective of who governs it, while to many of those from the unionist persuasion the priority is to live within the territory of the UK, while the 26 counties were part of that all was grand, but once that was no longer the case they moved according to their priority.

Now what was your point?

junder · 07-07-2012 9:30pm

Cú Giobach wrote: »

whitelines wrote: »

Truly appalling analogy. Just replace the words 'island of Ireland' with 'British isles' to see what I mean.

The figures seem to show the Irish peoples priority is to live in the part of the British isles called Ireland irrespective of who governs it, while to many of those from the unionist persuasion the priority is to live within the territory of the UK, while the 26 counties were part of that all was grand, but once that was no longer the case they moved according to their priority.

or would you prefer the one below (which interestingly still makes the point).

The figures seem to show the Irish peoples priority is to live in the British isles irrespective of who governs it, while to many of those from the unionist persuasion the priority is to live within the territory of the UK, while the 26 counties were part of that all was grand, but once that was no longer the case they moved according to their priority.

Now what was your point?

That attuitude seems to be under the illusion that our loyalty is based souley under the assumption that we base our beliefs on The incumbent government. Do you really believe that, should there be an united Ireland, unionists will on mass leave this island or is it more of a hope that they will

junder · 07-07-2012 9:33pm

Cú Giobach wrote: »

whitelines wrote: »

Truly appalling analogy. Just replace the words 'island of Ireland' with 'British isles' to see what I mean.

The figures seem to show the Irish peoples priority is to live in the part of the British isles called Ireland irrespective of who governs it, while to many of those from the unionist persuasion the priority is to live within the territory of the UK, while the 26 counties were part of that all was grand, but once that was no longer the case they moved according to their priority.

or would you prefer the one below (which interestingly still makes the point).

The figures seem to show the Irish peoples priority is to live in the British isles irrespective of who governs it, while to many of those from the unionist persuasion the priority is to live within the territory of the UK, while the 26 counties were part of that all was grand, but once that was no longer the case they moved according to their priority.

Now what was your point?

That attuitude seems to be under the illusion that our loyalty is based souley under the assumption that we base our beliefs on The incumbent government. Do you really believe that, should there be an united Ireland, unionists will on mass leave this island or is it more of a hope that they will

poeticseraphim · 07-07-2012 9:52pm

Sound of Silence wrote: »

In what way exactly?

When it's literally a no hold's barred event for the First Minister to simply attend a GAA game, I wouldn't say that our communities are irrevocably interlinked. Not to mention the fact that the Northern Irish football team - You know, the team that apparently represents us - has an almost exclusive Unionist following, then I imagine that National fervor couldn't exactly be considered rapturous.

It's got little to do with socialism. Nationalism grows stronger at the extremities.

Yes, after 40 years of continual conflict and literally thousands of deaths, we have been placated with the gift of Irish passports.

Well we in the South ar constantly told that there is falling support in the Nationalist community for a united Ireland. And that a referendum would not pass despite rising numbers in the catholic population.

So i assumed this was because of better relations between the communities.

I made the very accurate genuine point that actually protestants in the South usually simply consider themselves Irish people who happen to be Irish for example Bono is a protestant and Irish.

A poster from the North (or they implied so)..that ulster catholics feel they have more in common with people from Ulster and suggested that this was a reason he observed a falling in support for a united Ireland there amongst the nationalist community.
Maybe you should ask the poster from the North who originally suggested it.

Being from from Dublin i must respect your empirical experience. But it is actually difficult to ascertain what is true for an individual and the wider community.
Plus it always seems the Unionist view of Dublin is a little dilusional for example they seem to think Irish protestants refer to themselves as Unionists ...they don't...it's not COE it's COI..infact they have been many protestant nationalists the Easter rising would not have happened without protestant involvement.

In reality Ireland is not catholic anymore the church has collapsed. Which is a great thing in my opinion.

In the south protestants -yes..british expats -yes...Unionists- not so much...

I would have genuinely though people in northern Ireland would think of themselves as northern Irish as simply because the Idea of 'British' with the Scots wanting independane etc and the welsh ...is well changing....i mean the only people who refer to themselves as 'British' and nothing else these days are Unionists ..the welse are welsh first Bristh second the English are English first and then British ...and most in the Unionist community would rather be ruled by stormont than westminster.

poeticseraphim · 07-07-2012 10:07pm

Does the Orange order accept openly gay members?

And do they also march?

We have lots of openly gay participants in the St Pats day parade from diff LBGT societies. They often win best exhibition or float actually.

Let's face it though a lot more should be done both sides of the border for things like Gay marriage etc..

I don't care what this Govt says Civil partnership is not th same as Gay marriage.

christmas2012 · 07-07-2012 10:08pm

They should have gays in there it would make the orange parade more colourful they might paint the stones before throwing them at catholic passers by :pac:

junder · 07-07-2012 10:11pm

poeticseraphim wrote: »

Sound of Silence wrote: »

In what way exactly?

When it's literally a no hold's barred event for the First Minister to simply attend a GAA game, I wouldn't say that our communities are irrevocably interlinked. Not to mention the fact that the Northern Irish football team - You know, the team that apparently represents us - has an almost exclusive Unionist following, then I imagine that National fervor couldn't exactly be considered rapturous.

It's got little to do with socialism. Nationalism grows stronger at the extremities.

Yes, after 40 years of continual conflict and literally thousands of deaths, we have been placated with the gift of Irish passports.

Well we in the South ar constantly told that there is falling support in the Nationalist community for a united Ireland. And that a referendum would not pass despite rising numbers in the catholic population.

So i assumed this was because of better relations between the communities.

I made the very accurate genuine point that actually protestants in the South usually simply consider themselves Irish people who happen to be Irish for example Bono is a protestant and Irish.

A poster from the North (or they implied so)..that ulster catholics feel they have more in common with people from Ulster and suggested that this was a reason he observed a falling in support for a united Ireland there amongst the nationalist community.
Maybe you should ask the poster from the North who originally suggested it.

Being from from Dublin i must respect your empirical experience. But it is actually difficult to ascertain what is true for an individual and the wider community.
Plus it always seems the Unionist view of Dublin is a little dilusional for example they seem to think Irish protestants refer to themselves as Unionists ...they don't...it's not COE it's COI..infact they have been many protestant nationalists the Easter rising would not have happened without protestant involvement.

In reality Ireland is not catholic anymore the church has collapsed. Which is a great thing in my opinion.

In the south protestants -yes..british expats -yes...Unionists- not so much...

I would have genuinely though people in northern Ireland would think of themselves as northern Irish as simply because the Idea of 'British' with the Scots wanting independane etc and the welsh ...is well changing....i mean the only people who refer to themselves as 'British' and nothing else these days are Unionists ..the welse are welsh first Bristh second the English are English first and then British ...and most in the Unionist community would rather be ruled by stormont than westminster.

The flaw in your argument is that I
Not refering toProtestants in The republic of Ireland as that is a religious deffnition. As opposed to those that would see
Themselves as coming from a Irish unionist point of view

Happyman42 · 07-07-2012 10:13pm

junder wrote: »

The flaw in your argument is that I
Not refering toProtestants in The republic of Ireland as that is a religious deffnition. As opposed to those that would see
Themselves as coming from a Irish unionist point of view

What is that? An Irish union with what?

golden lane · 07-07-2012 10:20pm

the six counties of northern ireland.........is not a permanent situation.....one day the westminster government will drop it....whether there is a consensus there or not.....

the people there, and in the south have to make sure there is not a bloody handover...

the six counties is not a viable entity...so it will have to join up with the other 26 counties...

intergration is best if it is gradual, and that should start as soon as possible...

Cú Giobach · 07-07-2012 10:23pm

junder wrote: »

That attuitude seems to be under the illusion that our loyalty is based souley under the assumption that we base our beliefs on The incumbent government.

How you can read "incumbent government" from "Territory of the UK" is utterly beyond me. Both are totally different things

Are Unionists not called Unionists because of their loyalty to the UK and their wish to continue the union so they can live in the UK?
If I meant loyal to the "incumbent government" I would be mentioning Conservatives or Lib-dems.

Do you really believe that, should there be an united Ireland, unionists will on mass leave this island or is it more of a hope that they will

I know for a fact that people would leave and so do you, whatever about nationalistic feelings many will simply want to remain living in the UK and that would mean moving to Britain. When borders change people move, nothing special about this place regarding that.

poeticseraphim · 07-07-2012 10:58pm

junder wrote: »

The flaw in your argument is that I
Not refering toProtestants in The republic of Ireland as that is a religious deffnition. As opposed to those that would see
Themselves as coming from a Irish unionist point of view

There are none....there maybe half of one somewhere...but really..not so much

It is an Oxymoron.....Unionist (wanting a union with Britain) cannot be Irish .....Ireland is republic.....I am from the Republic of Ireland...there maybe Northern Irish Unionists ...there may be those who are British and living in Ireland.

There are no Irish Unionists .....there maybe those who wish to see Ireland united as a republic...

Infact many would noteven get what you were saying....

Do Unionists really believe there is a Irish Unionist point of view ????

I genuinely am baffled ....i really think they need to spend time here ...

Happyman42 wrote: »

What is that? An Irish union with what?

That would be the general reaction....what is that?????

Do you realize that this is a republic...with the people as it's sovreign...and all citizens would be in huge support of that ..and that structure of Govt...

whitelines · 07-07-2012 11:04pm

Cú Giobach wrote: »

How you can read "incumbent government" from "Territory of the UK" is utterly beyond me. Both are totally different things
Are Unionists not called Unionists because of their loyalty to the UK and their wish to continue the union so they can live in the UK?
If I meant loyal to the "incumbent government" I would be mentioning Conservatives or Lib-dems.

I know for a fact that people would leave and so do you, whatever about nationalistic feelings many will simply want to remain living in the UK and that would mean moving to Britain. When borders change people move, nothing special about this place regarding that.

It's amazing so many proud Irish Nationalists stayed in Northern Ireland following partition, especially given how cruelly they were treated (apparently). Indeed, they didn't only stay, they actually expanded as a population group. Some of these people could have literally walked to freedom, but chose instead to stay under The British Crown. In fact, quite a few actually moved from The Republic to Northern Ireland down the years. Come to think of it, hundreds of thousands actually moved to England and brought their children up as little Englishmen and women, rather than stay in Ireland and help to develop the nation they claimed to love and which had been under The English heel for centuries.

Strange people The Irish.

Happyman42 · 07-07-2012 11:17pm

whitelines wrote: »

It's amazing so many proud Irish Nationalists stayed in Northern Ireland following partition, especially given how cruelly they were treated (apparently). Indeed, they didn't only stay, they actually expanded as a population group. Some of these people could have literally walked to freedom, but chose instead to stay under The British Crown. In fact, quite a few actually moved from The Republic to Northern Ireland down the years. Come to think of it, hundreds of thousands actually moved to England and brought their children up as little Englishmen and women, rather than stay in Ireland and help to develop the nation they claimed to love and which had been under The English heel for centuries.

Strange people The Irish.

They weren't kept under heel for long though.

Chuck Stone · 07-07-2012 11:38pm

Cú Giobach wrote: »

I know for a fact that people would leave and so do you.

I disagree. You might get some Unionists who'd leave but I'd say they'd be few and far between. Home is home and Unionists have as much right to live on this island as anyone else regardless of who's administering it.

Paradoxically Unionists would make up a considerable voting block in the event of a UI and could make a powerful coalition party; they could campaign for a UI to rejoin the Commonwealth among other things.

I can't even begin to imagine some of the strange coalitions that would come about in the event of a UI.

donegal_road · 07-07-2012 11:39pm

today was the pre-12th Orange parade in Rossnowlagh. It usually attracts 5000 or more participants, and is a family day out. No one is bothered by it and it has been going on for years. Other towns in Donegal that had Orange parades over the years are Raphoe, Convoy, St. Johnston, Laghey, Ballintra. I am catholic.

poeticseraphim · 07-07-2012 11:54pm

whitelines wrote: »

It's amazing so many proud Irish Nationalists stayed in Northern Ireland following partition, especially given how cruelly they were treated (apparently). Indeed, they didn't only stay, they actually expanded as a population group. Some of these people could have literally walked to freedom, but chose instead to stay under The British Crown. In fact, quite a few actually moved from The Republic to Northern Ireland down the years. Come to think of it, hundreds of thousands actually moved to England and brought their children up as little Englishmen and women, rather than stay in Ireland and help to develop the nation they claimed to love and which had been under The English heel for centuries.

Strange people The Irish.

That is betraying the truth about Unionist feelings towards us no?
There is a general feeling in a such posts.

As regards London Irish..

Actually they Insist on carrying Irish passports and want voting rights here.

The fact is people then like now did not want to leave ..but had to..

And yep we infact moved to the US and Austrailia and Canada the Irish dispora is huge..

And it's growing.

Honestly...:)

Why worry about a united Ireland?

Honestly what's the point?

Either it happens democratically or it does not ....What do you see yourself doing in such a situation? And really i would not worry about it.

I would suggest though if people keep putting out snide bitterness and negativity on bothsides that are hinted at in this thread...our worst views of each other are confirmed to us all...
It brings out the worst in humans...

I am sorry whitelines your view of Irish people is what it is

But hey it's your world view...have it your way...it's a pretty dark one though no offense:)

I feel kind of naive about all of this ...

Are we really that awful???

Be nice ...

If it were to ever happen.... stay......we southies grow on you.....

poeticseraphim · 07-07-2012 11:56pm

donegal_road wrote: »

today was the pre-12th Orange parade in Rossnowlagh. It usually attracts 5000 or more participants, and is a family day out. No one is bothered by it and it has been going on for years. Other towns in Donegal that had Orange parades over the years are Raphoe, Convoy, St. Johnston, Laghey, Ballintra. I am catholic.

See it can happen...thats the way it should be done and could be done in Dublin.

getzls · 07-07-2012 11:58pm

golden lane wrote: »

the six counties of northern ireland.........is not a permanent situation.....one day the westminster government will drop it....whether there is a consensus there or not.....

the people there, and in the south have to make sure there is not a bloody handover...

the six counties is not a viable entity...so it will have to join up with the other 26 counties...

intergration is best if it is gradual, and that should start as soon as possible...

It is a permanent situation untill (if ever) the people in N.Ireland decide otherwise. G.B. will not drop it, as you say. They didn't with the I.R.A. campaign and they won't without it. If the people decide to join the Irish Republic there will be no bloodshed imo. Why is Northern Ireland (go on say it) not a viable entity?

flutered · 07-07-2012 11:59pm

the brain fart of the millimium, the same as having a st patricks day parade down the sandy row.

junder · 08-07-2012 12:05am

poeticseraphim wrote: »

whitelines wrote: »

It's amazing so many proud Irish Nationalists stayed in Northern Ireland following partition, especially given how cruelly they were treated (apparently). Indeed, they didn't only stay, they actually expanded as a population group. Some of these people could have literally walked to freedom, but chose instead to stay under The British Crown. In fact, quite a few actually moved from The Republic to Northern Ireland down the years. Come to think of it, hundreds of thousands actually moved to England and brought their children up as little Englishmen and women, rather than stay in Ireland and help to develop the nation they claimed to love and which had been under The English heel for centuries.

Strange people The Irish.

That is betraying quite the truth about Unionist feelings towards us no?
What is worrying is despite Unionistclaims of modernity...the hate of all things Irish is palpable in these posts.

As regards London Irish..

Actually they Insist on carrying Irish passports and want voting rights here.

The fact is people then like now did not want to leave ..but had to..

And yep we infact moved to the US and Austrailia and Canada the Irish dispora is huge..

And it's growing.

Honestly...:)

Why worry about a united Ireland?

Honestly what's the point?

Either it happens democratically or it does not ....What do you see yourself doing in such a situation?And really i would not worry about it.

I would suggest though if people keep putting out snide bitterness and negativity on bothsides that are hinted at in this thread...our worst views of each other are confirmed to us all...
It brings out the worst in humans...

I am sorry whitelines your view of Irish people is what it is

But hey it's your world view...have it your way...it's a pretty dark one though no offense:)

I feel kind of naive about all of this ...

Are we really that awful???

Be nice ...

Really, sometimes this site is hard work. As previously pointed I am a loyalist, a unrepentant one at that. While I hate a certain strand of republicanism I feel no
Hatred towards the Irish people or thier identity, I just wish I was afforded the same respect

junder · 08-07-2012 12:06am

poeticseraphim wrote: »

whitelines wrote: »

It's amazing so many proud Irish Nationalists stayed in Northern Ireland following partition, especially given how cruelly they were treated (apparently). Indeed, they didn't only stay, they actually expanded as a population group. Some of these people could have literally walked to freedom, but chose instead to stay under The British Crown. In fact, quite a few actually moved from The Republic to Northern Ireland down the years. Come to think of it, hundreds of thousands actually moved to England and brought their children up as little Englishmen and women, rather than stay in Ireland and help to develop the nation they claimed to love and which had been under The English heel for centuries.

Strange people The Irish.

That is betraying quite the truth about Unionist feelings towards us no?
What is worrying is despite Unionistclaims of modernity...the hate of all things Irish is palpable in these posts.

As regards London Irish..

Actually they Insist on carrying Irish passports and want voting rights here.

The fact is people then like now did not want to leave ..but had to..

And yep we infact moved to the US and Austrailia and Canada the Irish dispora is huge..

And it's growing.

Honestly...:)

Why worry about a united Ireland?

Honestly what's the point?

Either it happens democratically or it does not ....What do you see yourself doing in such a situation?And really i would not worry about it.

I would suggest though if people keep putting out snide bitterness and negativity on bothsides that are hinted at in this thread...our worst views of each other are confirmed to us all...
It brings out the worst in humans...

I am sorry whitelines your view of Irish people is what it is

But hey it's your world view...have it your way...it's a pretty dark one though no offense:)

I feel kind of naive about all of this ...

Are we really that awful???

Be nice ...

Really, sometimes this site is hard work. As previously pointed I am a loyalist, a unrepentant one at that. While I dislike a certain strand of republicanism I feel no
Hatred towards the Irish people or thier identity, I just wish I was afforded the same respect

Sound of Silence · 08-07-2012 12:07am

poeticseraphim wrote: »

Well we in the South ar constantly told that there is falling support in the Nationalist community for a united Ireland. And that a referendum would not pass despite rising numbers in the catholic population.

Yet Sinn Fein are now the second largest Party in the North. Speaking as a Northerner, I can assure you that the desire for a United Ireland has not diminished among the Catholic/Nationalist population, rather it has been relegated to a long-term concern until the Republic is better capable of taking on such a burden.

The desire is there, but the time is not right.

I made the very accurate genuine point that actually protestants in the South usually simply consider themselves Irish people who happen to be Irish for example Bono is a protestant and Irish.

As far as I know, Bono was raised as a Catholic. I believe it was his Brother who was a member of the Church of Ireland, as well as his Mother. Regardless, I actually happen to work in the South, but I've never been in the business of asking people about their Religious convictions, so I can't be considered an accurate judge of someones National identity.

You could be right about the Southern Protestants. I honestly have very little experience with them.

A poster from the North (or they implied so)..that ulster catholics feel they have more in common with people from Ulster and suggested that this was a reason he observed a falling in support for a united Ireland there amongst the nationalist community.
Maybe you should ask the poster from the North who originally suggested it.

I didn't see the post.

Perhaps he was trying to relate that we are similar at a very basic level; you know, similar experiences and such; we can be personable with each other. You must understand, however, that beyond this our ideological differences are so fundamentally different that they could be considered to be almost irreconcilable

Being from from Dublin i must respect your empirical experience.

Empirical evidence? That's quite a compliment when I didn't even have to provide any

But it is actually difficult to ascertain what is true for an individual and the wider community.

True, but as Junder has pointed out on numerous occasions, it is much easier for those actually living in these areas to absorb and understand what is actually going on.

Plus it always seems the Unionist view of Dublin is a little dilusional for example they seem to think Irish protestants refer to themselves as Unionists ...they don't...it's not COE it's COI..infact they have been many protestant nationalists the Easter rising would not have happened without protestant involvement.

That's the least of their concerns in regard to Dublin.

In reality Ireland is not catholic anymore the church has collapsed. Which is a great thing in my opinion.

I would crave a secular State.

I would have genuinely though people in northern Ireland would think of themselves as northern Irish as simply because the Idea of 'British' with the Scots wanting independane etc and the welsh ...is well changing....i mean the only people who refer to themselves as 'British' and nothing else these days are Unionists ..the welse are welsh first Bristh second the English are English first and then British ...and most in the Unionist community would rather be ruled by stormont than westminster.

Even Unionists don't really call themselves Northern Irish, other than when they have to differentiate themselves within the context of the United Kingdom. They tend only to call themselves British.

The only time Unionists will dare curse Westminster is when Stormont is suspended. Beyond that, I'm pretty sure they realise that Westminster is simply another cog in the British wheel, and is a benevolent and accepted force in a devolved British State.

junder · 08-07-2012 12:09am

Semantics aside, really want is the problem with a small local Irish orange lodge parading in thier own local city

golden lane · 08-07-2012 12:09am

getzls wrote: »

It is a permanent situation untill (if ever) the people in N.Ireland decide otherwise. G.B. will not drop it, as you say. They didn't with the I.R.A. campaign and they won't without it. If the people decide to join the Irish Republic there will be no bloodshed imo. Why is Northern Ireland (go on say it) not a viable entity?

i admire your confidfence in the british (maybe just english) people......the children and the younger generation, care not one hoot for the six counties...they don't even know where they are...

you mention during the ira campaign.....if you think that england has not changed since then.....you are very misinformed.....

HoggyRS · 08-07-2012 12:16am

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Irish citizens from the Republic want to parade through their capital and I think they should be permitted. If there was an Irish Nazi group and they wanted to do likewise I should hope we are mature and reasonable enough to allow them exercise their rights.

I may not agree with what they stand for but whats the point of a Republic if certain sections of society aren't permitted to exercise their rights as citizens provided they are not breaking the law.

Have certain conditions in place, no paramilitary flags or banners etc and allow them march.

At some point in time we are going to have to move forward. Why not now?

We're mature enough to accept nazism is it? I hope I never get that mature...

Sound of Silence · 08-07-2012 12:18am

junder wrote: »

I just wish I was afforded the same respect

Now come on, Junder, you must realise that you're on an Irish site. Your views are bound to seem at least a little unpalatable.

Just out of interest, how would you like us to respond exactly? Would you like it if we just accepted the march out of hand, or that we seriously considered it's wider implications.

You must to express to us why an Orange Order march in Dublin would be beneficial to the Peace process, not simply why it would be beneficial to the Orange Order.

The Order will be marching past areas of great reverence to Nationalists.

Consequently, I wouldn't call a Republican parade past the centotaph progress.

Cú Giobach · 08-07-2012 12:39am

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I disagree. You might get some Unionists who'd leave but I'd say they'd be few and far between. Home is home and Unionists have as much right to live on this island as anyone else regardless of who's administering it.

Paradoxically Unionists would make up a considerable voting block in the event of a UI and could make a powerful coalition party; they could campaign for a UI to rejoin the Commonwealth among other things.

I can't even begin to imagine some of the strange coalitions that would come about in the event of a UI.

As I said, nothing to do with the nationalistic feelings, religion or politics of the people but a desire to live in a particular country, I couldn't see a majority or even a huge number, but some will just want to live in the UK.
Protestants, Catholics, immigrants from Eastern Europe etc.......all types would be included, not forgetting of course those that would move to NI. Changes in borders always result in some movement of people.
I don't think anyone should move, but some will think that themselves for their own various personal reasons.

Chuck Stone · 08-07-2012 12:43am

junder wrote: »

I am a loyalist, a unrepentant one at that. I feel no Hatred towards the Irish people or thier identity

I presume with that statement you didn't support the degenerate loyalist murder gangs who targeted civilians for nothing other than they were Catholic and Irish?

junder · 08-07-2012 1:00am

Chuck Stone wrote: »

junder wrote: »

I am a loyalist, a unrepentant one at that. I feel no Hatred towards the Irish people or thier identity

I presume with that statement you didn't support the degenerate loyalist murder gangs who targeted civilians for nothing other than they were Catholic and Irish?

I have never supported the murder of innocent civilians regardless of what community they come from

A dublin orange parade?

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