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A dublin orange parade?

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12357…12

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    #122
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    murphaph wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    My band already carrys enough flags thanks. Moreover considering the attuitude of, what seems to be alot of people in the republic, I don't believe that the Dublin and Wicklow orange lodge feels any affinity to the tricolour, certainly don't feel the orange represents them. And no they do not carry union flags either
    I was baptised catholic junder but I don't feel the green represents me as I have no affinity to the RC church or any organised religion tbh.

    It's just a flag now. Most flags have some meaning behind the colours but in most countries the people have no idea what they are.

    The Union flag contains three saints crosses/saltires: all christian symbols originally. The St. Georges Cross especially would have been a symbol of the crusades and should be repugnant to muslims, but I wouldn't say the union flag in 2012 doesn't represent muslims in the UK today.

    They are just flags.

    I think interpretations of flags and by extension the choice wether or not to carry one is up to the individual


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    #123
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    junder wrote: »
    Proberly because they don't feel it represents them, that's the fault of the Irish republic for making them feel alien in thier own country and accounts for the massive drop in population of those that see themselves as British since partition, strange that in northern Ireland the nationalist / republican population has increased over the years and yet in the republic the unionist population dropped from 8% to under 2%, either way it's not as if the Irish orange lodges are burning tricolours so What's the problem if the don't choose to carry one
    So basically island wide since 1920 the proportion of Irish people has increased and the proportion of British decreased, why is that so strange?

    Also, why would it be strange for people who consider themselves British living in the republic after independence not to want to live in (what you and many like referring to as) a foreign country and consequently move?

    Neither of the two points above are strange and are common occurrences in similar situations all over the planet, it's to do with human nature and how we interact socially as Homo-sapiens, not because of some inherent flaw in that particular group of those animals who call themselves Irish.


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    #124
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    Proberly because they don't feel it represents them, that's the fault of the Irish republic for making them feel alien in thier own country and accounts for the massive drop in population of those that see themselves as British since partition, strange that in northern Ireland the nationalist / republican population has increased over the years and yet in the republic the unionist population dropped from 8% to under 2%, either way it's not as if the Irish orange lodges are burning tricolours so What's the problem if the don't choose to carry one
    So basically island wide since 1920 the proportion of Irish people has increased and the proportion of British decreased, why is that so strange?

    Also, why would it be strange for people who consider themselves British living in the republic after independence not to want to live in (what you and many like referring to as) a foreign country and consequently move?

    Neither of the two points above are strange and are common occurrences in similar situations all over the planet, it's to do with human nature and how we interact socially as Homo-sapiens, not because of some inherent flaw in that particular group of those animals who call themselves Irish.

    As northern Irish nationalists are want of saying, why should they have to move from we're they are born? Or is different for those born in the republic of Ireland that see themselves as British. Why did northern irish nationalists / republicans not only stay but increase in numbers in a so called 'sectarian statelet' and yet southern Irish unionists decline in the allegedly tolerant and open minded republic?


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    #125
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    junder wrote: »
    Why did northern irish nationalists / republicans not only stay but increase in numbers in a so called 'sectarian statelet' and yet southern Irish unionists decline in the allegedly tolerant and open minded republic?

    It's called sex, Catholics do it better. :D


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    #126
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    junder wrote: »
    As northern Irish nationalists are want of saying, why should they have to move from we're they are born? Or is different for those born in the republic of Ireland that see themselves as British. Why did northern irish nationalists / republicans not only stay but increase in numbers in a so called 'sectarian statelet' and yet southern Irish unionists decline in the allegedly tolerant and open minded republic?

    Maybe their not as fond of sex.


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    #127
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    junder wrote: »
    As northern Irish nationalists are want of saying, why should they have to move from we're they are born? Or is different for those born in the republic of Ireland that see themselves as British. Why did northern irish nationalists / republicans not only stay but increase in numbers in a so called 'sectarian statelet' and yet southern Irish unionists decline in the allegedly tolerant and open minded republic?

    Because northern nationalists are still living in Ireland but southern unionists were no longer living in the UK.

    The figures seem to show the Irish peoples priority is to live on the island of Ireland irrespective of who governs it, while to many of those from the unionist persuasion the priority is to live within the territory of the UK, while the 26 counties were part of that all was grand, but once that was no longer the case they moved according to their priority (as many would do if a UI came about).

    Northern nationalists are just doing what the vast majority of Irish people have done for centuries, that is living in Ireland but governed from London, while the British people living in the republic would now be in a "foreign" country which is a stronger incentive to move.
    The two things you are trying to equate cannot be compared.


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    #128
    lawnmower_man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 51 ✭✭lawnmower_man


    junder wrote: »
    As northern Irish nationalists are want of saying, why should they have to move from we're they are born? Or is different for those born in the republic of Ireland that see themselves as British. Why did northern irish nationalists / republicans not only stay but increase in numbers in a so called 'sectarian statelet' and yet southern Irish unionists decline in the allegedly tolerant and open minded republic?


    post 1921 , their was a huge set of reforms put in place known as the land commission , former anglo irish estates were split up between small native irish farmers , many of the anglo irish protestant land owners moved away on account of this one particular policy , it was a very nesscessery policy however , otherwise we would have been left with a situation like exists in britian where most farmers are tenants and the land they farm belongs to the queens third cousin who also owns half of sommerset


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    #129
    lawnmower_man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 51 ✭✭lawnmower_man


    junder wrote: »
    Proberly because they don't feel it represents them, that's the fault of the Irish republic for making them feel alien in thier own country and accounts for the massive drop in population of those that see themselves as British since partition, strange that in northern Ireland the nationalist / republican population has increased over the years and yet in the republic the unionist population dropped from 8% to under 2%, either way it's not as if the Irish orange lodges are burning tricolours so What's the problem if the don't choose to carry one


    protestant priveledge was discontinued in the south post 1921 , i realise such an idea is a relativley new ( and evolving ) concept for northern unionists , overall , protestants in the south have been treated very well this past ninety years , compared to how catholics were treated in the north , protestants in the south were treated like royalty

    i had to laugh at the head of the orange order when interviewed by matt cooper the other day , according to the grand wizard nelson , protestants in the border counties of cavan , monaghan and donegal should be given special treatment due to their minority status , if only he ( and his colleagues- bretheren ) had taken the same view about " romanists " in his own little province this past several centurys , seems the bould DREW,s ironing is not working , as theese people dont do humour , i know he wasnt punking cooper or the listeners

    a peoples who,s arrogance is only matched by their ignorance


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    #130
    poeticseraphim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 930 ✭✭✭poeticseraphim


    junder wrote: »
    As northern Irish nationalists are want of saying, why should they have to move from we're they are born? Or is different for those born in the republic of Ireland that see themselves as British. Why did northern irish nationalists / republicans not only stay but increase in numbers in a so called 'sectarian statelet' and yet southern Irish unionists decline in the allegedly tolerant and open minded republic?

    Actually i would wager because their children born in Ireland attained Irish citizenship and felt Irish.

    Most former British families simply see themselves as COI who are Irish.

    I had a friend entitled to a British peerage on her father's side but gave it up along with British citizenship simply because she was born here, raised here and felt Irish.

    The number of those of British decent has not dwindled in the republic perhaps...but the numbers of those who feel British has.

    They are simply Irish protestants or methodists or whatever and i would say most feel this way.

    I would say many southern members of the orange order don't relate to the northern orange men in reality and might actually be culturally closer to most other fellow Irish in the republic. They relate to their neighbours and friends etc.

    They didn't move they became Irish. Irish protestants.


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    #131
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    lawnmower_man wrote: »
    post 1921 , their was a huge set of reforms put in place known as the land commission , former anglo irish estates were split up between small native irish farmers , many of the anglo irish protestant land owners moved away on account of this one particular policy , it was a very nesscessery policy however , otherwise we would have been left with a situation like exists in britian where most farmers are tenants and the land they farm belongs to the queens third cousin who also owns half of sommerset

    i don't know what half he owns....but it is a lovely place to live......

    i know, because i live there...


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    #132
    lawnmower_man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 51 ✭✭lawnmower_man


    golden lane wrote: »
    i don't know what half he owns....but it is a lovely place to live......

    i know, because i live there...


    i didnt mean that literally but you know what i mean , the earl of wessex might own ten thousand acres , split between 50 tennant farmers


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    #133
    whitelines
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 159 ✭✭whitelines


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    It's called sex, Catholics do it better. :D

    Was it sex Northern Catholics did better? Hmmmm. I thought you could have sex without fear of having ten plus kids, if you took the necessary steps. But then that would depend on you not having to ask the local priest how to behave in bed wouldn't it?

    I sense a real embarrassment amongst those Irish of a Catholic background regarding this issue. But that's hardly surprising is it? It IS embarrassing.


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    #134
    whitelines
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 159 ✭✭whitelines


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    Because northern nationalists are still living in Ireland but southern unionists were no longer living in the UK.

    The figures seem to show the Irish peoples priority is to live on the island of Ireland irrespective of who governs it, while to many of those from the unionist persuasion the priority is to live within the territory of the UK, while the 26 counties were part of that all was grand, but once that was no longer the case they moved according to their priority (as many would do if a UI came about).

    Northern nationalists are just doing what the vast majority of Irish people have done for centuries, that is living in Ireland but governed from London, while the British people living in the republic would now be in a "foreign" country which is a stronger incentive to move.
    The two things you are trying to equate cannot be compared.

    Truly appalling analogy. Just replace the words 'island of Ireland' with 'British isles' to see what I mean.


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    #135
    whitelines
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 159 ✭✭whitelines


    lawnmower_man wrote: »
    protestant priveledge was discontinued in the south post 1921 , i realise such an idea is a relativley new ( and evolving ) concept for northern unionists , overall , protestants in the south have been treated very well this past ninety years , compared to how catholics were treated in the north , protestants in the south were treated like royalty

    i had to laugh at the head of the orange order when interviewed by matt cooper the other day , according to the grand wizard nelson , protestants in the border counties of cavan , monaghan and donegal should be given special treatment due to their minority status , if only he ( and his colleagues- bretheren ) had taken the same view about " romanists " in his own little province this past several centurys , seems the bould DREW,s ironing is not working , as theese people dont do humour , i know he wasnt punking cooper or the listeners

    a peoples who,s arrogance is only matched by their ignorance


    Then it's just as well you'll never have to share a state with them isn't it?


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    #136
    whitelines
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 159 ✭✭whitelines


    poeticseraphim wrote: »
    Actually i would wager because their children born in Ireland attained Irish citizenship and felt Irish.

    Most former British families simply see themselves as COI who are Irish.

    I had a friend entitled to a British peerage on her father's side but gave it up along with British citizenship simply because she was born here, raised here and felt Irish.

    The number of those of British decent has not dwindled in the republic perhaps...but the numbers of those who feel British has.

    They are simply Irish protestants or methodists or whatever and i would say most feel this way.

    I would say many southern members of the orange order don't relate to the northern orange men in reality and might actually be culturally closer to most other fellow Irish in the republic. They relate to their neighbours and friends etc.

    They didn't move they became Irish. Irish protestants.

    Interesting thinking there. I've heard it said many times that Ulster's Catholics have far more in common with their Protestant friends and neighbours than with people in The ROI. There may be something in that, especially now 'the troubles' have ended. It would certainly help explain the collapse in support for Irish Unity amongst NI Catholics that's become so obvious.


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    #137
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    whitelines wrote: »
    Was it sex Northern Catholics did better? Hmmmm. I thought you could have sex without fear of having ten plus kids, if you took the necessary steps. But then that would depend on you not having to ask the local priest how to behave in bed wouldn't it?

    I sense a real embarrassment amongst those Irish of a Catholic background regarding this issue. But that's hardly surprising is it? It IS embarrassing.

    eh? :confused:

    Stereotyping there a bit are we?
    Try asking a Unionist about homosexuality...that'll bring you back a century or so where you seem to be living! ;)


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    #138
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    whitelines wrote: »
    Interesting thinking there. I've heard it said many times that Ulster's Catholics have far more in common with their Protestant friends and neighbours than with people in The ROI. There may be something in that, especially now 'the troubles' have ended. It would certainly help explain the collapse in support for Irish Unity amongst NI Catholics that's become so obvious.

    Those "Peace Walls" in Belfast are all for show.


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    #139
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    This thread, once again, illustrates why Boards.ie is defunct in Northern Ireland.


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    #140
    poeticseraphim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 930 ✭✭✭poeticseraphim


    whitelines wrote: »
    Interesting thinking there. I've heard it said many times that Ulster's Catholics have far more in common with their Protestant friends and neighbours than with people in The ROI. There may be something in that, especially now 'the troubles' have ended. It would certainly help explain the collapse in support for Irish Unity amongst NI Catholics that's become so obvious.

    I actually agree with you.

    Except for those that come up to Dublin and tell us all to be more Irish :rolleyes:.

    I do think probably Ulster protestant relate more to Ulster catholics more than people in Scotland England or Wales.

    I do think there is more of a 'Northern Irish' identity now more than ever.

    I don't know why Sinn Féin is so successful in the north maybe for the same reasons they are the main opposition party here now. They play up the socialist image.

    With few exceptions in maybe football etc ...most people simply adapt to where they live and want to just live...

    It is the minority who are a united Ireland or die types

    It would be still a popular ideal for the ROI but probably much more than in the north. For the first time it's probably more popular here than with northern Irish catholics. They are content with simply having Irish passports in northern Ireland.

    I get the sense the idea is more popular in Dublin than with the Irish nationalist community in the north.


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    #141
    poeticseraphim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 930 ✭✭✭poeticseraphim


    I accept completely that the Irish in the north are just as Irish as us if that is how they identify themselves culturally as. But remeber when SF first started to really make the push in Dublin, do people rememer how out of touch they were for the first while?

    Infact they would almost chastise the electorate for a percieved lack of Irishness and try and push the Irish language thing to the point where they alomst ended up ostrasizing the largely anglophone electorate. They didn't get there was a whole other Irish identity that was unknown to them. Or that all sections of societ were patriotic but that patriotism came in many different forms.

    It took a while for them to realize what the issues were, they came back and knew their briefs and never made that presumption again. They had to come back all inclusive.

    They had to change to even become relevant...well that and an economic crisis and the collapse of FF all helped them to now worrying become a main party.:(




    Hey it's a little off topic but how would folks feel about a ST GEORGES day?? :)

    I think it would be nice for the British expat community!

    And it's pretty non threatening :)


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    #142
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    whitelines wrote: »
    Truly appalling analogy. Just replace the words 'island of Ireland' with 'British isles' to see what I mean.

    What do you mean?

    I'm pretty sure that the term "British Isles" is not used as an official term by either Governments.


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    #143
    whitelines
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 159 ✭✭whitelines


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    eh? :confused:

    Stereotyping there a bit are we?
    Try asking a Unionist about homosexuality...that'll bring you back a century or so where you seem to be living! ;)

    Stereotyping am I? Well, I'm in good company here then.

    Homosexuality? I thought The RC church was against that as well? Well unless the male involved is a small child that is.


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    #144
    whitelines
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 159 ✭✭whitelines


    Sound of Silence wrote: »
    Those "Peace Walls" in Belfast are all for show.

    You'd be amazed how many people in NI don't live in ethnic ghettos.


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    #145
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    If our government allows this to happen they are very stupid,and dont have thier priorities in order:

    a) it will cost too much money to clean up afterwards

    b) some wrecked businesses might have to shut down completely,and are struggling as it is,not good for dublin,not good for retail not good for jobs.
    c)if its for the sake of relations,that ridiculous,as its only going to make relations worse.
    d)it will put off tourist business for that day equals money lost for that whole day ,and having to shut down streets just so they can march will have a detrimental effect on car traffic and people traffic that could supply business for that day.


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    #146
    whitelines
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 159 ✭✭whitelines


    Sound of Silence wrote: »
    What do you mean?

    I'm pretty sure that the term "British Isles" is not used as an official term by either Governments.

    And if true, that is relevant why?


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    #147
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    poeticseraphim wrote: »
    ]I do think probably Ulster protestant relate more to Ulster catholics more than people in Scotland England or Wales.

    In what way exactly?

    When it's literally a no hold's barred event for the First Minister to simply attend a GAA game, I wouldn't say that our communities are irrevocably interlinked. Not to mention the fact that the Northern Irish football team - You know, the team that apparently represents us - has an almost exclusive Unionist following, then I imagine that National fervor couldn't exactly be considered rapturous.
    I don't know why Sinn Féin is so successful in the north maybe for the same reasons they are the main opposition party here now. They play up the socialist image.

    It's got little to do with socialism. Nationalism grows stronger at the extremities.
    They are content with simply having Irish passports in northern Ireland.

    Yes, after 40 years of continual conflict and literally thousands of deaths, we have been placated with the gift of Irish passports.


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    #148
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    whitelines wrote: »
    And if true, that is relevant why?

    Because it's a term used solely by Unionists. Hell, I could simply refer to it as the "Hibernian Isles" and it would be just as relevant.

    Until an official term has been arrived upon, it will remain an entirely redundant term.


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    #149
    getzls
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 806 ✭✭✭getzls


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    eh? :confused:

    Stereotyping there a bit are we?
    Try asking a Unionist about homosexuality...that'll bring you back a century or so where you seem to be living! ;)

    Sterotyping. Yes you are doing it now. I'm a Unionist, ask me about homosexuality then.


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    #150
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    whitelines wrote: »
    Stereotyping am I? Well, I'm in good company here then.

    Homosexuality? I thought The RC church was against that as well? Well unless the male involved is a small child that is.

    The religious bigot's grips have been well and truly loosened down here and up there. It's just that, up there, they still haven't gotten over the fact that decent human beings are not listening to them.


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    #151
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    getzls wrote: »
    Sterotyping. Yes you are doing it now. I'm a Unionist, ask me about homosexuality then.

    It's alright, I was talking to Big Ian at a Save Ulster From Sodomy rally and then to Iris about her 'cure' and Ken Maginnis wouldn't talk to me at all.
    All Unionists with a capital U. I'm sure there are exceptions, like yourself, but I wouldn't think there would be too many.


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