Just a thought...

It seems from the whole discussion that atheism and religion are so intertwined that its impossible for one to be discussed without the other. Atheism has almost become a religion in itself. My original question was why would an atheist who has no interest in "God" spend their time discussing and belittling the church, or in another sense why would a person who has no interest in religion be so concerned with the goings on of those who have? I'm a Catholic but frankly i'm not interested in those who don't believe in God so why are ye so quick to take an interest in me and say i'm crazy for having faith and being brainwashed by "a pointy hatted redshoed old man". (His hat is actually round not pointy!).

The argument came up that Ireland is still a largely catholic country so therefore laws and public opinions interfere with the everyday life of an atheist, so therefore they feel as if its their duty to oust the church as a sham and free the world from the grip of God. Marriage inequality, lack of school choice and the non-availability of abortion are political issues and are in place because of the views of the majority of the people, yes its true they are influenced by faith but does it really matter what influences them? People make up their own minds on what sort of a society they want based on what they see as best. I don't support abortion because i see it as murder, not because the Pope told me so and some folk don't support gay marriage because marriage to them is between man and woman only, its based on their own personal philosophy of how a society should function, sure its probably influenced by Church teaching but its still their own personal view. Atheists are so quick to detest the church for original condemning abortion/gay marriage etc but its still peoples and societies all over the world that uphold these views and implement them into law, not the church. Why condemn Jesus for bringing the message when its your fellow citizens the world over who are the ones that are, through political means, establishing these societies that are so intolerable to an atheists view of the world. We Christians aren't brainwashed or under the hand of the Pope, we (well I can only speak for myself) make our own decisions based on what we see as best. Some of our thinking is surly influenced by a belief in God but its still our own individual viewpoint.
For example some people drink excessive amounts of alcohol because they want to get drunk and escape reality, the reasoning behind their thinking is "to get drunk" and they do this through "alcohol", society tackles the problem itself which is drink rather than the reasons that influences a person to take it. The problem is drink (or abortion or inequality) but the reasons behind it don't matter. in a similar way it shouldn't matter the reasoning behind the mindset of a person who is against abortion , what matters is that they are against it and that's it. You cant always blame God for originally instilling the idea two thousand years ago, when it is ordinary men and women who today in 2012 decide to agree with it.

I suppose what i'm really trying to say is that the reason behind a persons thinking (i.e. church, god etc) shouldn't matter as much as is claimed on this forum. If the church ceased to exist tomorrow there would still be problems and different viewpoints. People today decide to agree with certain things and disagree with some. I'm sure many atheists and non believers are against gay marraige etc so maybe its not all influenced by faith but on the mind of the person. It would be more helpful to dispense an alternative viewpoint rather than regularly bashing the Church and God who just originally introduced the idea. I'm sure atheism has much more other interesting and profound debate to offer other than this.

Also, i'm vastly outnumbered here and feel like an over-weight lamb in a lions den...so be nice

pauldla wrote: »

As an aside, it amuses me how religionists get worked up by this. A secular state protects those with religious belief; if you publicly renounce transubstantiation, or the virgin birth, or teachings of the prophet, there is no fallout. You aren't fined, you aren't imprisoned, you aren't flogged, you aren't stoned. I strongly suspect that when religionists argue against secularism, they're pushing for their own particular faith to be favoured by law; and damn to the others.

People of faith reject increasing secularization because the feel society would be worse off by it. Of course a country should enact laws to suit peoples of all faith and none (an impossible task) but if the state was entirely secular then Christians would feel discriminated, in the same way that atheists feel discriminated against in today's Ireland. Trying to find the balance is key, no state should be truly secular or truly religious because there will always be groups in society who feel abandoned. Also there have been calls for Ireland to become completely secular then everyone will be happy but no proper Catholic could be happy in a society that ignores their religious beliefs.