Confusion over split Galway/Westport train in Heuston

foggy_lad · 30-06-2012 3:28pm #1

The staff member on the barriers is telling people the rear three cars are for Galway when it is the front three. I do hope nobody requires a taxi at taxpayers expense between Westport and Galway because of Irish rail incompetence.

There is also only WiFi on the rear of the train and none in the first three carriages..

parsi · 30-06-2012 4:04pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

The staff member on the barriers is telling people the rear three cars are for Galway when it is the front three. I do hope nobody requires a taxi at taxpayers expense between Westport and Galway because of Irish rail incompetence.

There is also only WiFi on the rear of the train and none in the first three carriages..

Half the passengers are probably already travelling free anyway using their golden ticket.

Victor · 30-06-2012 4:48pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

There is also only WiFi on the rear of the train and none in the first three carriages.

Given that it hasn't been launched yet, is this really a problem?

foggy_lad · 30-06-2012 5:10pm

parsi wrote: »

Half the passengers are probably already travelling free anyway using their golden ticket.

Why not put them into taxis or buses in Dublin and scrap the railways then? A taxi between Galway and Westport would cost a bit more than the train ticket from Dublin to either town.

There was even more confusion in Athlone with garbled announcements on the train about coaches and several people boarding the wrong train in Athlone having to switch very quickly when it was finally announced coherently that the front three carriages were for Galway.

At least the stop was only for 5minutes in total including splitting the train.

foggy_lad · 30-06-2012 5:20pm

Victor wrote: »

Given that it hasn't been launched yet, is this really a problem?

Not really a problem for me and not a problem for the people who have already switched to the buses because of perks like WiFi. It is so much better by bus to places like Galway.

mickydoomsux · 30-06-2012 5:43pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is so much better by bus to places like Galway.

So use the bus then

end of the road · 30-06-2012 5:59pm

i don't know why they just don't send them seperetly? would save on the confusion. of course they could have anouncements full blast to tell people with persons who can speak clearly, if people don't get it well then.

ProudDUB · 30-06-2012 6:15pm

end of the road wrote: »

i don't know why they just don't send them seperetly? would save on the confusion.

It's probably cheaper in terms of overheads, running costs, staffing levels, etc etc to send one 6 engine train with one engine & split it where ever it needs to be split, than to send 2 totally separate trains the full distance.

corktina · 30-06-2012 6:21pm

Its a problem Ive also seen in the UK....the front three coaches TO US are the LEADING three, but to Joe Public, the front three are the ones he comes to first and the rear three are the farthest away,

Im sure Ted would explain it to you, he's good on cows anyway.

markpb · 30-06-2012 6:29pm

end of the road wrote: »

i don't know why they just don't send them seperetly?

I guess it uses one less signalling slot along the track which means more trains can operate in/out of Heuston. It also puts the most capacity on the busiest part of the line.

It makes sense to me but it's all down the implementation and my own experience is that Irish Rail handle it very badly, leaving customers very confused.

foggy_lad · 30-06-2012 7:54pm

corktina wrote: »

Its a problem Ive also seen in the UK....the front three coaches TO US are the LEADING three, but to Joe Public, the front three are the ones he comes to first and the rear three are the farthest away,

Im sure Ted would explain it to you, he's good on cows anyway.

This was not the issue today. The first 3 out of the station were for Galway but the staff at the gate had it arseways, he seemed more interested in chatting to the rail gourmet staff.

January · 30-06-2012 8:12pm

Do you just randomly hang around train stations looking for faults?

corktina · 30-06-2012 8:12pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

This was not the issue today. The first 3 out of the station were for Galway but the staff at the gate had it arseways, he seemed more interested in chatting to the rail gourmet staff.

the issue surely lies in the description of half the train as the rear. When looking at a train arriving at Heuston, it would be quite correct to tell someone the REAR three cars are for Galway, it's all in the perception of what exactly is the rear of the train....the staff should be telling people that the three coaches nearest are for wherever and the three furthest are for Galway.... (management failure)

January · 30-06-2012 8:18pm

corktina wrote: »

the issue surely lies in the description of half the train as the rear. When looking at a train arriving at Heuston, it would be quite correct to tell someone the REAR three cars are for Galway, it's all in the perception of what exactly is the rear of the train....the staff should be telling people that the three coaches nearest are for wherever and the three furthest are for Galway.... (management failure)

Or carriage A,B,C is for Westport and D,E,F are for Galway, no messing up then.

n97 mini · 30-06-2012 8:43pm

Why don't they just put a sign on the platform at the half way point in the train saying "Galway only carriages beyond this point"?

Slunk · 30-06-2012 8:50pm

They do have signs on the platform. Westport board here. Halfway down galway board here. I thinks it down to the front/rear description and people being a little stupid. The amount of times I've been asked for such and such train when it's written in lights on the front and side of it.

foggy_lad · 30-06-2012 9:04pm

corktina wrote: »

the issue surely lies in the description of half the train as the rear. When looking at a train arriving at Heuston, it would be quite correct to tell someone the REAR three cars are for Galway, it's all in the perception of what exactly is the rear of the train....the staff should be telling people that the three coaches nearest are for wherever and the three furthest are for Galway.... (management failure)

He did and was telling people that the three coaches nearest us were for Galway but they were not.

He was wrong and other members of staff had to clear up the confusion created. No amount of semantics will make what he was telling people correct information.

foggy_lad · 30-06-2012 9:06pm

Slunk wrote: »

They do have signs on the platform. Westport board here. Halfway down galway board here. I thinks it down to the front/rear description and people being a little stupid. The amount of times I've been asked for such and such train when it's written in lights on the front and side of it.

There were no signs of any description on the platform until about 3minutes before departure the signs were put out by a staff member who obviously realised the previous misinformation and tried to clear up the mess.

foggy_lad · 30-06-2012 9:11pm

mickydoomsux wrote: »

So use the bus then

The flagship(titanic) X20 service is currently half an hour behind schedule and has not even reached Athlone where the driver will most likely take a break.

Anything related even remotely to C.I.E. is flawed and will never be successful out on their own.

Judgement Day · 30-06-2012 9:42pm

Perhaps CIE could reinvent the wheel and go back to using carriage labels in the carriage windows or would this make us the laughing stock of Europe - as the 'great' Bertie Ahern said about our traditional voting method of pencil and paper. As somebody said some years back on the Late, Late Show - Ireland has a fetish with modernity - and look where it has got us. :rolleyes:

Carriage%2Blabel%2B1.PNG

n97 mini · 30-06-2012 10:34pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

The flagship(titanic) X20 service

There's the excellent Citylink service, which is quicker and cheaper than any CIE group service.

tangowhiskey · 30-06-2012 11:05pm

Or they could do what they do in London Victoria and say that the front three coaches furthest from the ticket barrier are for X and the rear three closest to the barrier is for Y.

Simple stuff really.

parsi · 01-07-2012 12:36am

n97 mini wrote: »

foggy_lad wrote: »

The flagship(titanic) X20 service

There's the excellent Citylink service, which is quicker and cheaper than any CIE group service.

For some reason the OP prefers to travel with the CIE group of companies despite the many flaws he has seen and the regular harassment and discrimination he witnesses.

I'm beginning to think it's because he has free travel. An incognito Boards Servant perhaps ?

Jamie2k9 · 01-07-2012 1:08am

There may be changes to these services in the near future.

cast_iron · 01-07-2012 2:26am

tangowhiskey wrote: »

Or they could do what they do in London Victoria and say that the front three coaches furthest from the ticket barrier are for X and the rear three closest to the barrier is for Y.

Simple stuff really.

I don't know the setup in London Victoria, but in Heuston, there can be no confusion as to which is the front or the back of the train, since trains can't "pass through". So the front when leaving Heuston is clearly the end furthest away from the entrance. And vice versa for when it is entering Heuston.
So unless people think the driver is at the back (which is a bit silly) there can really be no confusion.

I remember when I was buying a ticket online for what turned out to be a split train. The only problem was that the online service would only allow me to choose a seat in the wrong half of the train for where I was going!

Victor · 01-07-2012 8:38am

cast_iron wrote: »

I don't know the setup in London Victoria, but in Heuston, there can be no confusion as to which is the front or the back of the train, since trains can't "pass through". So the front when leaving Heuston is clearly the end furthest away from the entrance. And vice versa for when it is entering Heuston.
So unless people think the driver is at the back (which is a bit silly) there can really be no confusion.

Humans are intelligent, people are stupid.

There is a perfect solution for this - just as many British stations and Cork Kent have, label different parts of the platform A and B. In Cork, platform 5 is divided into 5a and 5b, so that when a short train s using it, people know to go to that part of the platform.

end of the road · 01-07-2012 2:21pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

There may be changes to these services in the near future.

what changes?

Jamie2k9 · 01-07-2012 2:45pm

what changes?

Don't know what changes but Irish Rail have said there are looking into the capacity problems and will have changes made.

I personally would look at the following to help solve the problem. Its mainly the 13.15 to Dublin and 15.30 from Dublin with the most problems.

a - 07.30 operate direct to Westport everyday not just Fridays which would allow the 13.15 to have 6 carrages.

b - 15.30 operate direct to Wesport everyday not just Fridays. This would allow the 05.15 to be a 6 car which I don't think is required so if the 07.30 contuines to split then the 13.15 return service could be a 6 car as the 3 arrive form Dublin that morning and the other 3 arrived the evening before.

c - Possible but unlightly add a shuttle Athlone-Westport that a Dublin-Galway train connects with.

d - operate a 9 car from Heuston with 6 going to Westport and 3 going to Galway but we all know why they can happen.....

IMO option b looks like the best option in the short term but then there is the shortage form Galway but I could think of a few ways around it.

end of the road · 01-07-2012 3:03pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

a - 07.30 operate direct to Westport everyday not just Fridays which would allow the 13.15 to have 6 carrages.

how does this service work currently?

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

15.30 operate direct to Wesport everyday not just Fridays.

same question as above.

Jamie2k9 · 01-07-2012 3:07pm

As far as I know all services from Dublin operate into Westport with a connecting 2700 or 2800 train at mj for Ballina passengers.

dowlingm · 01-07-2012 4:32pm

trouble with the Athlone-Westport shuttle might be fitting it around the freights and slots for the odd training run, bringing the Ballina set up/down for Limerick Depot etc. The single track lines are great for economy but once you max them out then where do you go?

Victor · 01-07-2012 5:34pm

dowlingm wrote: »

trouble with the Athlone-Westport shuttle might be fitting it around the freights and slots for the odd training run,

Typically, there is only one passenger train on the Westport branch (not including Ballina) at any given time.

bringing the Ballina set up/down for Limerick Depot etc.

I get the impression that these are often tagged onto the rear of another train, out of service.

The single track lines are great for economy but once you max them out then where do you go?

You use the occasional passing loop.

LXFlyer · 01-07-2012 6:19pm

Not quite right there Victor - the Ballina sets switch every Friday. The new set operates out of service Limerick Junction/Ballina, while the old set goes out of service Ballina-Athlone before operating the 1705 Athlone-Galway, 1830 Galway-Ennis and return, before returning to Limerick next morning as part of the 0940 Galway-Limerick on Saturdays.

Plenty of scope for additional trains on the route capacity wise.

foggy_lad · 01-07-2012 8:39pm

n97 mini wrote: »

There's the excellent Citylink service, which is quicker and cheaper than any CIE group service.

Unfortunately I missed the last Citylink express by about ten minutes, Otherwise i would have been back home at 11.30pm instead of 1.25am.

tangowhiskey wrote: »

Or they could do what they do in London Victoria and say that the front three coaches furthest from the ticket barrier are for X and the rear three closest to the barrier is for Y.

Simple stuff really.

That would work well, in fact that is what is on the printed timetable but it does not stop some ticket checker giving people the wrong information and putting them on the wrong trains.

popebenny16 · 02-07-2012 11:04am

so sum up:

one IE lad at ticket barrier mixes up which half is going where.

other IE lads spot it and sort it out.

i am starting to think that foggy_lad is one of those glass half empty kind of guys.

popebenny16 · 02-07-2012 11:15am

January wrote: »

Do you just randomly hang around train stations looking for faults?

you actually dont have to, every single day I am in Heuston there is some balls up, usually in terms of PA. Last week the tannoy system with robodude was turned of on Monday and Thursday afternoon approaching 5 pm because when a train fails to leave on time he stops making sense. (I recall one evening standing at a platform with no train and robodude telling us all that it was there and boarding) The trouble being that the big board was telling people what platform their train was awaiting and nobody was believing it because robodue was turned off. Cue last moment panic rushes to 7 for the tralee train....

speaking of which, on board robodude on thursday was having some sort of breakdown, telling us that the snack bar was at the rear and the front of the train.....

goingnowhere · 02-07-2012 11:30am

popebenny16 wrote: »

speaking of which, on board robodude on thursday was having some sort of breakdown, telling us that the snack bar was at the rear and the front of the train.....

Thats actually a human goofing up, as the message is not automatic. You have to select it from a touch screen

popebenny16 · 03-07-2012 11:06am

goingnowhere wrote: »

Thats actually a human goofing up, as the message is not automatic. You have to select it from a touch screen

interesting. it happened on more than one occasion. i suppose you can do the selection in a batch. obviously, this being boards.ie, i will call for him to be sacked. thats the standard reaction, i belive.

Losty Dublin · 03-07-2012 1:50pm

popebenny16 wrote: »

interesting. it happened on more than one occasion. i suppose you can do the selection in a batch. obviously, this being boards.ie, i will call for him to be sacked. thats the standard reaction, i belive.

And privatise the sacking procedure as well?

bazza1 · 03-07-2012 1:55pm

All sackings are outsourced!

Victor · 04-07-2012 1:55am

Surely robodude needs re-training, not sacking?

Paddy De Plasterer · 04-07-2012 2:02am

this bit of Irish on train every so often, and then english translation annoys me and does nothing for the language.

LXFlyer · 04-07-2012 6:28am

It is a legal requirement.

bk · 04-07-2012 7:49am

lxflyer wrote: »

It is a legal requirement.

It is a stupid law that needs changing.

dowlingm · 04-07-2012 7:17pm

bk - that may well be the case but blaming IE for something they have no control over is a bit previous.

What might be more interesting is boarding a BE bus in the Gaeltacht and attempting to buy/pay for a ticket in Irish.

Jamie2k9 · 12-07-2012 2:02am

Lots of problems yesterday with many passengers not known which train to baord and having to move.

IR claim to be working to rectify the issue.

end of the road · 12-07-2012 2:16am

well they would want to rectify it fast

Confusion over split Galway/Westport train in Heuston

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