Are you for or against national id cards/profiles?

GarIT · 01-07-2012 03:09PM

delad wrote: »

You do realise all bank accounts these days have online access?! Anyone in the world has the potential to hack your account as it is.

Thats done on a single account basis, you can hack one account yes, but the banks main systems are one a seperate network. Say you transfer money from one account to another, when you do that online you send a request to transfer the money to the server for the website, the webserver then sends the request onto the banks central computers which process the transfer. You at no point have access to the system that transfers the money.

You could crack the password on one account which is often done, but you could not access all the accounts at once.

GarIT · 01-07-2012 03:16PM

If you could get me a few hours inside the main computer room in the european central bank I could steal all the money in europe. The only real protection it has is its physical location, if everyone had access to it over a network connection we could all try to do whatever we want.

The main government databases in America have been hacked before, someone in china gor a list of thousands of names and social security numbers before they were shut down to protect themselves, because the only defense they has was to pull the power. Could you imagine if everyones bank accounts were linked into that too.

Fingerprints are stored in a numerical form. If I could get access to the database which lists the fingerprints of people, I could set up a line of code which would enter those numbers into whatever system without actually scanning the finger.

The posibilities for doing damage with a universally networked system are endless.

mahamageehad · 01-07-2012 03:21PM

One vital piece of stupidity that no-one else has seemed to pick up on, (apart from the feasibility of course!) i that according to delads proposal "good" people with no criminal record (now remember even the most hardcore violent criminals at one stage in their lives had no criminal record) would be allowed through airport security without being checked????

You would be listed on the database as being of no threat or little threat, so no searching at security would be needed for you, unless you have a criminal record or are otherwise listed as potentially being a threat.

Am what?? That is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!

Anyways if it's all as technological feasible as you've said why haven't the likes of Japan, who are years ahead of us technologically, already done something like this? Very good comment from Seamus that having them written down i.e. that you can't change your fingerprint makes them weak. Also what if you're in an accident and you lose a finger? Or you're a scientist, but not a very good one, and you pour hydrochloric acid over your fingertip obliterating part or all of the relevant fingerprint.

Even if, which it's not, this was possible there would be massive privacy and security issues. And a bad mark against someone when they were young ad stupid could lead them to discrimination for the rest of their lives. Google wallet is already struggling with security issues, or at least persuading people that the benefits outlay the risks!

Also you should edit the title as national ID cards do exactly what they say on the tin- they are cards, issued nationally by the government that confirm your identification. What you're proposing is something completely different!

Muir · 01-07-2012 03:30PM

I was actually thinking of that idea before, except like you know these smart cards you just scan like the leap card for buses? One of those that was ID, bank, credit card, everything. Then I thought having all that information together wouldn't be good if the system got hacked or something.

Shryke · 01-07-2012 03:37PM

Dean09 wrote: »

If you've nothing to hide then you shouldn't worry about it. Unless you're into conspiracy theories.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, it only takes some small amount of critical thinking and a brief glance at human history to see how something like the OP is suggesting could go very wrong and be abused.
This is stuff more suited to a utopia, which is something we will never have.

validusername1 · 02-07-2012 06:55PM

But the reason people have to go through airport security is not to prove their identity? It's to prove they don't have anything illegal on them like weapons/drugs.. You're saying that providing a finger print will let the security know if you have those items on you or not? How does that even make sense? If you mean that a finger print will show you have no criminal record so that automatically makes you okay to go through security.. That's basically saying that I (someone with no criminal record) could load my suitcases with €1million worth of heroin, have knives and guns on me etc, and get on the airplane no bother and be no threat. It doesn't make sense..

xylophones · 02-07-2012 07:00PM

starting to sound an awful lot like the world described in orwells 1984 to me...
though the main problem i had with the op is that you cannot just let people onto planes without security checks due to the fact that convicted criminals were just normal people with no convictions until one day they did something to earn a conviction.is it really worth risking thousands of lives for the sake of convenience?

pseudofax · 02-07-2012 07:10PM

MrReynholm wrote: »

Having a centralised database on people with the things you include, such as how they spend money, where they spend money, how much money they spend, what countries they go to, what kind of entertainment they enjoy, presumably things like their education and more is a receipe for abuse and I would absolutely be opposed to such a thing.

A national identity card is not that thing though, thankfully. Also, the argument of "if you've nothing to hide then you've nothing to worry about" doesn't hold much weight for me when it comes to an expectation or right to privacy and freedom. Such an attitude will have people give up more and more rights until they've none left to give up, and those rights will never be restored.

They already have this. Privacy is a myth. It does not exist in the modern era. Deep down, you know the Government practically knows when you take a ****, so don't pretend to ask surprised.

pseudofax · 02-07-2012 07:20PM

validusername1 wrote: »

But the reason people have to go through airport security is not to prove their identity? It's to prove they don't have anything illegal on them like weapons/drugs.. You're saying that providing a finger print will let the security know if you have those items on you or not? How does that even make sense? If you mean that a finger print will show you have no criminal record so that automatically makes you okay to go through security.. That's basically saying that I (someone with no criminal record) could load my suitcases with €1million worth of heroin, have knives and guns on me etc, and get on the airplane no bother and be no threat. It doesn't make sense..

The reason people go through security at an airport is to give the impression they are actually trying to stop criminals, that and a reason to **** with you. Any oppurtunity they can get, they will fcuk with you. To show who is boss. To the Government, you are just a commodity to be traded on the market.

Unless fullproof airport security becomes a reality, it's all a trick and pony show. It provides jobs for people who aren't intelligent enough to graviatate to more important fields of work.

ManMade · 02-07-2012 07:28PM

There should be an optional one for people. But really when they bring in the plastic card driving license I believe many people will use it as a type of national id card anyway.

eth0 · 02-07-2012 07:35PM

OP works for biometrics company?

Biometrics is a load of shoite, like a password that you can't change without surgery. National ID cards = ushering the big brother society and I can't believe people are still going on about nothing to hide in a time when you couldn't trust any given government as far as you could throw them

Run_to_da_hills · 02-07-2012 10:28PM

One reason why we should be concerned about high tech invasive ID cards.

History looks like it could be repeating itself.

"German newspaper Die Welt compares Eurozone crisis with 1930s slump that ushered in Hitler"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2165419/German-newspaper-Die-Welt-compares-Eurozone-crisis-1930s-slump-ushered-Hitler.html

Nodin · 02-07-2012 10:36PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

One reason why we should be concerned about high tech invasive ID cards.

History looks like it could be repeating itself.

"German newspaper Die Welt compares Eurozone crisis with 1930s slump that ushered in Hitler"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2165419/German-newspaper-Die-Welt-compares-Eurozone-crisis-1930s-slump-ushered-Hitler.html

You're so right. Any day now....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f88DAXzcozo

Peetrik · 02-07-2012 10:42PM

Or better than cards that you have to carry around (hassle)... why not a micro chipped population with zones that you are or arn't allowed into depending on how much money you have.
Obviously the more money you have to protect then the better the police force in your eligible zones.
If you have nothing to hide you won't mind being microchipped like cattle will you?

Run_to_da_hills · 02-07-2012 10:47PM

Peetrik wrote: »

Or better than cards that you have to carry around (hassle)... why not a micro chipped population with zones that you are or arn't allowed into depending on how much money you have.
Obviously the more money you have to protect then the better the police force in your eligible zones.
If you have nothing to hide you won't mind being microchipped like cattle will you?

That's the master plan.

NFC / RFID hardware share the same 13.56 mhz frequency as implantable microchips.

monkeypants · 02-07-2012 11:01PM

This is the funniest opening post I've read all day. I haven't witnessed such delusion over technology since they stopped showing Tomorrow's World. Comedy gold, OP, really top drawer. As soon as the pain in my stomach goes away, I'll read the rest of the thread.

Anita Blow · 02-07-2012 11:38PM

Blood boils when I see that ****ing ridiculous "If you have nothing to hide then you've nothing to fear" argument. You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to understand that privacy is a basic human right. The whole argument is based on the false premise that people only keep things private because they believe that what they are keeping secret is an illegal act.
Honestly I fear for the future if our kids are going to be brainwashed into the idea that people only keep things secret because they're doing something illegal. Starting to look more and more like 1984 by the day.
"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."- Ben Franklin

Chuck Stone · 02-07-2012 11:53PM

The OP is a slave who is asking for stronger chains.

Fupping Grasshole · 02-07-2012 11:55PM

delad wrote: »

But if you have nothing to hide

I might have nothing to hide now but who's to say I won't have something to hide tomorrow.

purplepapillon · 03-07-2012 01:02AM

I just got the new national ID card. It's just a PPS card, with a picture, signature and chip (I don't know what for) on it. It is linked to your birth cert. (they had a copy of the last line of mine) and to your passport. I was in the social welfare office on the day they began "making" them, their equipment didn't work for ages, so they had to input data a different way. The kind of ID card the OP suggests won't be in for centuries at the rate this office were working

Personally, I'd be against such a thing linking to any bank accounts, cars or purchase of any other assets. It's invasive to say the least. The chances of such a system being hacked into seem high, the data alone would be worth millions to multi-nationals always vying for their market share and wondering how best to achieve it. A direction we're headed in, but not for a good long while I hope.

eth0 · 03-07-2012 10:48PM

Fupping Grasshole wrote: »

I might have nothing to hide now but who's to say I won't have something to hide tomorrow.

Or that what you have in plain sight today you might have to hide tomorrow

Governments tend to get more restrictive over time and old restrictions are not lifted nearly as much as they should be. Each time there is a backlash against excessive health & safety or "nanny state", "think of the children" or whatever you like to call it there might be a few token repeals if the government is feeling generous, followed by a period of inactivity and then its full steam ahead with further restricting people's lives.

nimrod86 · 03-07-2012 11:58PM

Nobody else think the OP is just trolling?

But in regards to ID cards, why can't they make worldwide, or at least European standard plastic card that says you age, where your from and your name? Or if there is one, make it so you don't have to be 18 to get it like the Garda age card! I have found myself in situations where I have to fight at train stations to try and prove my age for a damn child ticket!

nim

Mardy Bum · 04-07-2012 12:07AM

For certain English language (IELTS) exams you have to get finger prints taken, it is only a matter of time before it becomes the norm.

delad · 04-07-2012 12:18AM

monkeypants wrote: »

This is the funniest opening post I've read all day. I haven't witnessed such delusion over technology since they stopped showing Tomorrow's World. Comedy gold, OP, really top drawer. As soon as the pain in my stomach goes away, I'll read the rest of the thread.

Oh yeah, we have cars that drive themselves these days, we have augmented reality glasses coming onto the market in 2014, we have 3d holographic video conferencing, we have 3d printers which can create living organs, we can clone, but a thread about extending the gardai's fingerprint database is hilarious to you. Have you recently suffered a heavy blow to the head? ps. this internet malarky will never catch on, bring back the wireless!

eth0 · 04-07-2012 12:25AM

delad wrote: »

we have 3d printers which can create living organs, we can clone, but a thread about extending the gardai's fingerprint database is hilarious to you.

Extending their fingerprint database does seem fairly useless in a time when you can just print and clone fingers on demand

Also I'm expecting Google's 3D glasses to be fairly shoite, just like android and anything else that came out of that company that wasn't a search engine (or Google Gulp)

GreenWolfe · 04-07-2012 12:33AM

delad wrote: »

Oh yeah, we have cars that drive themselves these days, we have augmented reality glasses coming onto the market in 2014, we have 3d holographic video conferencing, we have 3d printers which can create living organs, we can clone, but a thread about extending the gardai's fingerprint database is hilarious to you. Have you recently suffered a heavy blow to the head? ps. this internet malarky will never catch on, bring back the wireless!

What do any of those ideas have to do with a massive centralised database and the most hideously complex networking idea I've ever heard of, exactly?

Turns out that there are parts of the country that don't have that level of communications infrastructure. What would folks do in Bally-in-the-middle-of-nowhere to start their car in the morning or vote etc?

Palytoxin · 04-07-2012 12:40AM

No need for it really, and I like to keep my business to myself. What if I wanted someone else to get something in my house/car/etc.? Imagine the cost of it too, madness. :eek:

delad · 04-07-2012 12:41AM

eth0 wrote: »

Extending their fingerprint database does seem fairly useless in a time when you can just print and clone fingers on demand

Also I'm expecting Google's 3D glasses to be fairly shoite, just like android and anything else that came out of that company that wasn't a search engine (or Google Gulp)

Yeah good point about the printing fingers on demand, we'll have to use brain scans instead or something.

Oh and by the way, GoogleNow p1sses all over siri from a great height, look up the youtube videos comparing the two, googles voice assistant is much better and much quicker.

Googles glasses are probably about 10 years away from being as good as they are in that promotional video, but they will be fantastic. The main problem is the fact that wireless broadband is so slow at the moment, they need big advances in that before the glasses become a reality.

delad · 04-07-2012 12:46AM

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

What do any of those ideas have to do with a massive centralised database and the most hideously complex networking idea I've ever heard of, exactly?

They have absolutely nothing to do with the idea in this thread. I was just pointing out how advanced the human race has become in a short period of time, and how tame my idea is to some of those advancements.

My idea isn't hideously complex, its very very simple. Currently all our data is spread out over various different systems with varying levels of security. My idea is to centralise it all on one database of the highest level of security we currently have.

So the world would be a safer place.

Anita Blow · 04-07-2012 12:52AM

delad wrote: »

So the world would be a safer place.

Keep telling yourself that

Are you for or against national id cards/profiles?

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