Clamped!

Guy:Incognito · 23-06-2012 08:11PM

Marlow wrote: »

So you think it's a great idea to be in the way of other people in a forecourt or double yellows instead of parking your car safely in a car parking spot to sort out the payment whatever time it may take.

That's very considerate of you.

/M

How are you in the way on a forecourt, its for customers, which you would be while buyign something to get change to go park properly in the pay and display carpark.

Again, if your not playing by the owners rules anyway, why bother paying for parking in the first place?

Marlow · 23-06-2012 08:13PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No he doesnt. He doesnt have to account for anything. If he wants the machine to only work off 1794 flowing hair dollars then thats his choice.

Just like selling Mars bars for €400 , he's free to pratice business badly if he wants.

Sure. And the repercussions from running a bad practice business, like he does when he employs clampers is that he doesn't have the law on his side.

Which leads to a bunch of friendly people from the internet to ensure, that he is not able to get money from his racket.

/M

Guy:Incognito · 23-06-2012 08:16PM

Marlow wrote: »

Sure. And the repercussions from running a bad practice business, like he does when he employs clampers is that he doesn't have the law on his side.

Which leads to a bunch of friendly people from the internet to ensure, that he is not able to get money from his racket.

/M

So why bother paying for parkign at all?

Marlow · 23-06-2012 08:16PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

How are you in the way on a forecourt, its for customers, which you would be while buyign something to get change to go park properly in the pay and display carpark.

Have you sized up the forecourt opposed to the carpark ? How many people lacking change does it take to clogg up the forecourt ? Opposed to parking in the carpark and sorting payment then ?

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Again, if your not playing by the owners rules anyway, why bother paying for parking in the first place?

That's not an issue here. The op stated he paid for the parking ticket.

/M

Stark · 23-06-2012 08:16PM

Marlow wrote: »

Which leads to a bunch of friendly people from the internet to ensure, that he is not able to get money from his racket.

/M

Or in the Mars bar analogy, a friendly rival businessman offering to sell the customer a Mars bar for 90c thus saving the customer €400 in the process.

Guy:Incognito · 23-06-2012 08:18PM

Marlow wrote: »

Have you sized up the forecourt opposed to the carpark ? How many people lacking change does it take to clogg up the forecourt ?

Probably the same amount that would clog it up buying petrol. I'm sure the garage owner is happy of the business regardless.

Marlow wrote: »

That's not an issue here. The op stated he paid for the parking ticket.

/M

I'm talking in general . You seem fine with moving from this specific case to general ones so the question is valid. I was asking you, not the OP. Either way, are regardless of what he says later on, the OP reads like he didnt actually buy the ticket originally so I'll stick with that thanks

Stark wrote: »

Or in the Mars bar analogy, a friendly rival businessman offering to sell the customer a Mars bar for 90c thus saving the customer €400 in the process.

So your saying the lads did it for paid reward?

Anan1 · 23-06-2012 08:19PM

Marlow wrote: »

Sure. And the repercussions from running a bad practice business, like he does when he employs clampers is that he doesn't have the law on his side.

Which leads to a bunch of friendly people from the internet to ensure, that he is not able to get money from his racket.

/M

Does the landowner get money from contract clamping? I don't know, but I don't think so. All the friendly internet people are doing is saving the OP the hassle of having to pay for parking.

brian plank · 23-06-2012 08:20PM

€400 mars bars

anyone who would try to justify an €80 fine for being 20 minutes late with a €1 payment is retarded. you wouldn't get that for murder in ireland :pac:

Stark · 23-06-2012 08:22PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So your saying the lads did it for paid reward?

The lads in this case didn't but when faced with the prospect of being offered a "release fee" for €120, it's a consumer's right to shop around for a better deal. Considering it is a release fee and not a fine after all, since a fine would you know, require some law to back it up.

Anan1 wrote:

Does the landowner get money from contract clamping? I don't know, but I don't think so. All the friendly internet people are doing is saving the OP the hassle of having to pay for parking.

And generating a bit of momentum that may result in finally seeing the vultures regulated.

Marlow · 23-06-2012 08:23PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Probably the same amount that would clog it up buying petrol. I'm sure the garage owner is happy of the business regardless.

What tells you, that the owner is getting business from people trying to change. And what margins he has on somebody buying a mars bar compared to somebody buying 70l of fuel ? While he's maybe loosing a few customers that would actually have spend money in the petrol station ?

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I'm talking in general . You seem fine with moving from this specific case to general ones so the question is valid. I was asking you, not the OP.

And this thread is about clamping, the lack of regulation, appeal and somebody who got clamped while he was out buying a ticket. Not somebody who didn't buy a ticket or how to get around to buy a ticket.

/M

Guy:Incognito · 23-06-2012 08:24PM

Marlow wrote: »

What tells you, that the owner is getting business from people trying to change. And what margins he has on somebody buying a mars bar compared to somebody buying 70l of fuel ? While he's maybe loosing a few customers that would actually have spend money in the petrol station ?

If garage owners are to be believed, the shops are whats keeping the garage going, not the petrol.

Marlow wrote: »

And this thread is about clamping, the lack of regulation, appeal and somebody who got clamped while he was out buying a ticket. Not somebody who didn't buy a ticket or how to get around to buy a ticket.

/M

But if theres no consequences, why bother paying?

Marlow · 23-06-2012 08:24PM

Anan1 wrote: »

Does the landowner get money from contract clamping? I don't know, but I don't think so. All the friendly internet people are doing is saving the OP the hassle of having to pay for parking.

It doesn't matter if the owner gets money from the clamping or not. If he doesn't it's an even worse business for him. Because while the car is clamped, he can't even make money from somebody else parking there

The issue at hand is that the clamping isn't regulated, there is no appeals process and that the declamping fine is disproportionate from the parking fee.

/M

Guy:Incognito · 23-06-2012 08:25PM

Stark wrote: »

And generating a bit of momentum that may result in finally seeing the vultures regulated.

And the people who get clamped having to pay....

Marlow wrote: »

The issue at hand is that the clamping isn't regulated, there is no appeals process and that the declamping fine is disproportionate from the parking fee.

/M

It wouldnt have mattered if it was regulated, the OP was in the wrong. All regulation would have meant is that 2 bodies would have told him to pay the fee.

Stark · 23-06-2012 08:30PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It wouldnt have mattered if it was regulated, the OP was in the wrong. All regulation would have meant is that 2 bodies would have told him to pay the fee.

If it was regulated, there'd be a clearly defined grace period in which the OP knew he would either have to obtain change and buy a ticket or else leave and come back with change.

At present, you can be clamped walking from your car to the pay machine and back and of course no course of appeal because there's no regulation to stop that from happening. (And it has happened to people in the cases of cowboy operators).

And personally I don't like seeing money being illegally extorted from people, regardless of whether they made a mistake or not.

Marlow · 23-06-2012 08:32PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It wouldnt have mattered if it was regulated, the OP was in the wrong. All regulation would have meant is that 2 bodies would have told him to pay the fee.

Incorrect. In a functioning world, if the ticket had been timestamped before or in around the same time as the time of the clamping, the clamp would have been released without fee. Due to lack of appeals process, this isn't happening. Well unless a few friendly people give a hand.

I stated this before.

/M

Anan1 · 23-06-2012 08:32PM

Marlow wrote: »

It doesn't matter if the owner gets money from the clamping or not. If he doesn't it's an even worse business for him. Because while the car is clamped, he can't even make money from somebody else parking there

The issue at hand is that the clamping isn't regulated, there is no appeals process and that the declamping fine is disproportionate from the parking fee.

/M

You already know that we're agreed on regulation, so stop trying to pretend that that's the issue. The OP would have been clamped anyway, even with regulation. The issue is your refusal to acknowledge the right of a landowner to lay down and enforce rules for people parking on his land. It is your lack of respect for his rights that necessitates clamping in the first place.

Anan1 · 23-06-2012 08:33PM

Stark wrote: »

If it was regulated, there'd be a clearly defined grace period in which the OP knew he would either have to obtain change and buy a ticket or else leave and come back with change.

At present, you can be clamped walking from your car to the pay machine and back and of course no course of appeal because there's no regulation to stop that from happening. (And it has happened to people in the cases of cowboy operators).

And personally I don't like seeing money being illegally extorted from people, regardless of whether they made a mistake or not.

You do know that the OP was gone for 20 minutes, don't you?

Stark · 23-06-2012 08:34PM

Which is more or less than the grace period? Care to tell me what the grace period was?

Marlow · 23-06-2012 08:34PM

Anan1 wrote: »

You already know that we're agreed on regulation, so stop trying to pretend that that's the issue. The OP would have been clamped anyway, even with regulation. The issue is your refusal to acknowledge the right of a landowner to lay down and enforce rules for people parking on his land. It is your lack of respect for his rights that necessitates clamping in the first place.

But that's the point. The landowner DOES NOT have the law to back him up on charging a release fee on clamping people. Otherwise the OPs situation would have been impossible to be resolved in the manner it did.

/M

Guy:Incognito · 23-06-2012 08:34PM

Marlow wrote: »

Incorrect. In a functioning world, if the ticket had been timestamped before or in around the same time as the time of the clamping, the clamp would have been released without fee. Due to lack of appeals process, this isn't happening. Well unless a few friendly people give a hand.

I stated this before.

/M

You seem to think the machine was miles from the carpark. Lets work on the assumption that th eop bought a ticket, how long do you think it then took him to get back to the car?

Why should it be waived if it's even only a minute after the clamp? Anyone can park, wait for the clampers to arrive then run and get a ticket.

Stark wrote: »

Which is more or less than the grace period? Care to tell me what the grace period was?

Why does there need to be a grace period? Theres usually a machine within a short distance of the car, and in sight of it.

Its not the owners problem if people turn up without change. They are free to drive off and get some

Marlow · 23-06-2012 08:35PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You seem to think the machine was miles from the carpark. Lets work on the assumption that th eop bought a ticket, how long do you think it then took him to get back to the car?

Why should it be waived if it's even only a minute after the clamp? Anyone can park, wait for the clampers to arrive then run and get a ticket.

Explained in the thread. The op realised he has no change, there is inadequate parking nearby the bank, he didn't have enough money on the card to get cash in the atm, so he decided to walk to the bank, get money from the teller and went back, bought a ticket to find his car clamped. It's all in the thread.

Time: 20 minutes.

/M

Stark · 23-06-2012 08:36PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why should it be waived if it's even only a minute after the clamp? Anyone can park, wait for the clampers to arrive then run and get a ticket.

Because it takes most people more than a minute to legitimately obtain a ticket and walk back to their cars?

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why does there need to be a grace period? Theres usually a machine within a short distance of the car, and in sight of it.

Not necessarily. In your wonderful unregulated world, the landowner is free to put the machine whereever the hell he likes.

Guy:Incognito · 23-06-2012 08:37PM

Marlow wrote: »

Explained in the thread. The op realised he has no change, there is inadequate parking nearby the bank, he didn't have enough money on the card to get cash in the atm, so he decided to walk to the bank, get money from the teller and went back, bought a ticket to find his car clamped. It's all in the thread.

Time: 20 minutes.

/M

How is that anything to do with the timestamp on the ticket? If the owner doesnt want to offer a grace period that that should be that.

Anan1 · 23-06-2012 08:39PM

Marlow wrote: »

But that's the point. The landowner DOES NOT have the law to back him up on charging a release fee on clamping people. Otherwise the OPs situation would have been impossible to be resolved in the manner it did.

/M

I'm not disputing that removing the clamp was legal. And, for the fourth time, I also believe that regulation & independent appeals is long overdue. But - here's the thing - legal does not always mean right. You don't abuse another man's private property, not even when the law allows it. That's what the OP did, and that's why the friendly internet people were crawling around under the OP's van instead of being at home watching tv or whatever.

Guy:Incognito · 23-06-2012 08:39PM

Stark wrote: »

Because it takes most people more than a minute to legitimately obtain a ticket and walk back to their cars?

Does it? How so? Would you stand at the machine watching the guys pull up and clamp your car? I'd say by the time they arrive, get out to check if you have a ticket, go back to the van, get the clmap and actually fit it, you could walk over.

Stark wrote: »

Not necessarily. In your wonderful unregulated world, the landowner is free to put the machine whereever the hell he likes.

and people are free to go park somewhere else, or park nearer the machine.

Lets look at the reality of it though , how far away are the machines . My guess is they are all in the carparks.

Marlow · 23-06-2012 08:39PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

How is that anything to do with the timestamp on the ticket? If the owner doesnt want to offer a grace period that that should be that.

And because there is no regulation on the landowners rules to the parking he provides, there is no regulation on the person parking there to relief himself of the clamp.

Op stated somewhere in the thread, that he missed the clampers by a minute or thereabouts.

/M

Stark · 23-06-2012 08:40PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

How is that anything to do with the timestamp on the ticket? If the owner doesnt want to offer a grace period that that should be that.

Person parks car at 20:34. Buys ticket at 20:36. Comes back at 20:38 to find car being clamped. You don't consider that as fair grounds for an appeal if an appeals process was offered?

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Does it? How so? Would you stand at the machine watching the guys pull up and clamp your car? I'd say by the time they arrive, get out to check if you have a ticket, go back to the van, get the clmap and actually fit it, you could walk over.

And if the guys clamping the car are physically stronger than me? Several posters have reported incidents where they have seen thugs clamping the car with the owner standing there begging them not to. Often cases elderly people who would have taken their time obtaining a ticket and were too frail to put up a fight. Which would not have happened if they were given a reasonable grace period.

Marlow · 23-06-2012 08:40PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Does it? How so? Would you stand at the machine watching the guys pull up and clamp your car? I'd say by the time they arrive, get out to check if you have a ticket, go back to the van, get the clmap and actually fit it, you could walk over.

And I've seen plenty of clampers, who have clamped the car in the meanwhile and refused to unclamp, even though you show them a ticket.

/M

Guy:Incognito · 23-06-2012 08:43PM

Marlow wrote: »

And I've seen plenty of clampers, who have clamped the car in the meanwhile and refused to unclamp, even though you show them a ticket.

/M

What ticket? Why would you stand there a few metres away watchign them go through the motions of clamping and say nothing

Cos thats what I'm talkign about there.

Walk over and tell them you just pulled in and are gettign a ticket. If they say though, get in the car and drive off.

Anan1 · 23-06-2012 08:44PM

Marlow wrote: »

And I've seen plenty of clampers, who have clamped the car in the meanwhile and refused to unclamp, even though you show them a ticket.

/M

Look, we all know that some clampers are unscrupulous - what does that have to do with this case?

Clamped!

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