Ireland in denial

steddyeddy · 22-06-2012 02:22AM #1

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0621/breaking3.html

Children in care are dying. Children in the care of the catholic church have died, have been tortured, have been raped. I was a victim of an abusive houshold and in later in care before I escaped. I dont get why the people of ireland think abuse towards kids is ok. I say that because the same crap is going on again and again. I know victims of abuse that the gaurds are stilll ignoring, that the hse are ignoring, This is still going on. my question is why dont irish people think child abuse is wrong?

charlemont · 22-06-2012 02:26AM

Attitude towards abuse here is very strange, Think it's because most people here actually do not care about things that don't directly effect them, Its a part of the clannishness that exists. Sure sweep it under the carpet, It'll be alright. :mad:

shopaholic01 · 22-06-2012 02:28AM

I don't think it's a case of people not caring, lack of awareness is probably the main problem.

Very few people would not have an issue with child neglect or abuse.

Unfortunately for you, you know the reality only too well, I hope you are happier in the future.

Kylo Ren · 22-06-2012 02:29AM

I am pretty sure the majority of people in Ireland would say child abuse is wrong.

steddyeddy · 22-06-2012 02:30AM

shopaholic01 wrote: »

I don't think it's a case of people not caring, lack of awareness is probably the main problem.

Very few people would not have an issue with child neglect or abuse.

Unfortunately for you, you know the reality only too well, I hope you are happier in the future.

I disagree I think a lot of poeple have no problem with abuse leveled at what they see as the lower classes. Thanks for the well wishes though I hope so to!

steddyeddy · 22-06-2012 02:30AM

Keno 92 wrote: »

I am pretty sure the majority of people in Ireland would say child abuse is wrong.

Saying its wrong is great but the majority dont act on it.

Kylo Ren · 22-06-2012 02:33AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Saying its wrong is great but the majority dont act on it.

But that was your question.

Pushtrak · 22-06-2012 02:33AM

How about we try and make this a positive thread and bring up things we can do to help the situation? I'm not of a mind that writing politicians is really the most effective. So, what solutions/ideas can we come up with, AH?

steddyeddy · 22-06-2012 02:37AM

Pushtrak wrote: »

How about we try and make this a positive thread and bring up things we can do to help the situation? I'm not of a mind that writing politicians is really the most effective. So, what solutions/ideas can we come up with, AH?

Fair enough. I escaped abuse and Irelands view on it. I still have friends here who are punished by the state for being victims of abuse. They aproached the gaurds and nothing happened so guess the change starts there.

Pushtrak · 22-06-2012 02:40AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Saying its wrong is great but the majority dont act on it.

steddyeddy wrote: »

Fair enough. I escaped abuse and Irelands view on it. I still have friends here who are punished by the state for being victims of abuse. They aproached the gaurds and nothing happened so guess the change starts there.

How should people act on it? You say people should, and I don't think a reasonable person could disagree. We could leave the thread at that, with nothing gained. I'd prefer more were done though.

steddyeddy · 22-06-2012 02:46AM

Pushtrak wrote: »

How should people act on it? You say people should, and I don't think a reasonable person could disagree. We could leave the thread at that, with nothing gained. I'd prefer more were done though.

The gaurds involved with abuse need to be fired for a start and the hse needs to be changed completely.

JupiterKid · 22-06-2012 03:16AM

The sad reality is that, until very recently, Ireland as a society did not cherish or love many of its children. Ireland, I suspect, has one of the highest rates of child abuse in the developed world which is shocking in itself.

Much of the blame lies with the Catholic church but also an ignorant and wilfully indifferent society.

mikemac1 · 22-06-2012 03:20AM

And Church of Ireland

Bethany Home for an example

Zebra3 · 22-06-2012 03:26AM

shopaholic01 wrote: »

I don't think it's a case of people not caring

A lot of people don't care.

They still support an organisation that facilitated the rape and torture of young children.

An organisation that still puts itself above child welfare.

ColeTrain · 22-06-2012 03:27AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0621/breaking3.html

Children in care are dying. Children in the care of the catholic church have died, have been tortured, have been raped. I was a victim of an abusive houshold and in later in care before I escaped. I dont get why the people of ireland think abuse towards kids is ok. I say that because the same crap is going on again and again. I know victims of abuse that the gaurds are stilll ignoring, that the hse are ignoring, This is still going on. my question is why dont irish people think child abuse is wrong?

I don't see how you can put this on the ordinary citizen. We pay our taxes so that there is a proper system in place. Are you going to blame the deficiencies in the health system on Irish people for not caring enough?

1ZRed · 22-06-2012 04:21AM

Keno 92 wrote: »

I am pretty sure the majority of people in Ireland would say child abuse is wrong.

Then why aren't convicted pedophile priests thrown in prison for their crimes?

The rules of the law should apply EQUALLY to everyone regardless of faith, stature or position in society!

I know what you mean but it sends such a mixed message that "child abuse is wrong and punishable by law but if you're a priest..."

jank · 22-06-2012 04:26AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

The sad reality is that, until very recently, Ireland as a society did not cherish or love many of its children. Ireland, I suspect, has one of the highest rates of child abuse in the developed world which is shocking in itself.

Much of the blame lies with the Catholic church but also an ignorant and wilfully indifferent society.

Is there proof of that?

Child abuse is not an Irish only phenomena. Sure, the revelations of the abuse of the RCC has lifted the lid on the conspiracy of lies and cover ups for the best part of 50 years. However, now that the state has by all intents of purposes taken over from the church the care of children from difficult backgrounds things have not changed at all. So what now?

Irish people like to point the finger and blame something or someone but the truth is a lot closer to home. We are closed minded when it comes to this issue, abuse is much more wide spread than one would suspect. Remember, the vast amount of abuse occurs between family members. These are usually nameless people who do not grab the headlines as much it would do if the church or the state were the main culprits. To accept this fact is a step in the right direction.

Yes, we are in denial to an extent. Until we recognise the true nature of the problem it will always be thus.

Patrick Cleburne · 22-06-2012 04:27AM

A state which was built on the bedrock of the biggest paedophilia organisation on the planet is going to have problems. Only now are some waking up to it. Good to see the OP understands this.

Benny_Cake · 22-06-2012 04:38AM

1ZRed wrote: »

Then why aren't convicted pedophile priests thrown in prison for their crimes?

The rules of the law should apply EQUALLY to everyone regardless of faith, stature or position in society!

I know what you mean but it sends such a mixed message that "child abuse is wrong and punishable by law but if you're a priest..."

If priests are convicted of children abuse then surely they are sentenced the same as the next person? There was one prison - Midlands, I think - which had enough priests in it that it was nicknamed the Vatican.

To answer the OP, I think Irish people do care, but the us a question of good citizenship - if you see something wrong, report it. The way the courts handle this needs to be looked at too.

mikemac1 · 22-06-2012 04:39AM

The article doesn't mention the Church once

But predictably that's what After Hours want to talk about

16 and 18 posts about religion

Yet the article is about the HSE

mikemac1 · 22-06-2012 04:47AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

my question is why dont irish people think child abuse is wrong?

Most goes on behind closed doors and by family members

People rant about the churches, yes churches plural as Church of Ireland are not blameless either
Or the State
But that's just a fraction

Who knows what is going on in communities, how many know their neighbours?

You are blaming people for not reporting what they may not even know about

jank · 22-06-2012 05:13AM

Fairly predictable fare really. Seems like we have learned nothing.

crusher000 · 22-06-2012 05:27AM

It is a worry though that most the posts here against abuse refer to the church. I think the catholic church has alot to answer ( and there's no way I'm on here defending the church) but was at a child protection course recently and they highlighted that at it's peak all reported abuse by the catholic church accounted for only 3% of all abuse in Ireland. We need to be careful that all focus of abuse is centred around the church and we ignore or distracted from the point our original op made. Abuse is happening in all walks of life and this maybe why it hasn't been given the real attention it should.

Lord Bafford · 22-06-2012 06:02AM

I tried making this point the other day and, surprise surprise, my thread was locked.:mad:

Maybe Irish people are just too stupid in general to grasp reality.

AngryHippie · 22-06-2012 07:38AM

Down with that sort of thing

careful now

biko · 22-06-2012 09:01AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I was a victim of an abusive houshold and in later in care before I escaped.

This is still going on. my question is why dont irish people think child abuse is wrong?

Woah, hold on there with your loaded questions, claiming all Irish people agree with child abuse.
Just because it's high on your agenda doesn't mean it will be high on everyone's agenda. There are many problems and things wrong with today's society and not everyone will focus on what you personally deem important.

Crooked Jack · 22-06-2012 09:03AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0621/breaking3.html

Children in care are dying. Children in the care of the catholic church have died, have been tortured, have been raped. I was a victim of an abusive houshold and in later in care before I escaped. I dont get why the people of ireland think abuse towards kids is ok. I say that because the same crap is going on again and again. I know victims of abuse that the gaurds are stilll ignoring, that the hse are ignoring, This is still going on. my question is why dont irish people think child abuse is wrong?

What happened you was terrible and I sincerely hope mentally and physically you have recovered, but this sentence is just preposterous.

the_syco · 22-06-2012 09:23AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

This is still going on. my question is why dont irish people think child abuse is wrong?

We do think it's wrong.

If you want to fling crap around, I'll fling crap back; what have you done to help fix the child abuse problem in Ireland before you fled?

Fizzlesque · 22-06-2012 09:28AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0621/breaking3.html

Children in care are dying. Children in the care of the catholic church have died, have been tortured, have been raped. I was a victim of an abusive houshold and in later in care before I escaped. I dont get why the people of ireland think abuse towards kids is ok. I say that because the same crap is going on again and again. I know victims of abuse that the gaurds are stilll ignoring, that the hse are ignoring, This is still going on. my question is why dont irish people think child abuse is wrong?

As Pushtrak asked, what do you think should be done? I don't know what should be done - that doesn't mean I don't think child abuse is wrong, I most definitely do.

Child abuse doesn't only happen in care - it happens in family homes too. Happened in my childhood home (physical, emotional and mental abuse - not sexual) and my siblings and I have often wondered why nobody [apart from one grandmother, who did the best she could in her limited due to ill health and being house-bound capacity] noticed, or cared enough to act, if they did notice.

It has been my experience that professional mental health help for damaged children is very poor in this country. I sought help in my early twenties, for extreme anxiety and was referred to a day hospital which was completely pointless, for me. When I left, on the third day, the doctor said "I've no problem with you leaving, as far as I'm concerned you're of totally sound mind" and the nurse said "it's a pity you're leaving, you're great at getting the other patients to open up"

All of which was no use to me - being articulate and prepared to discuss painful issues meant the doctor thought I was fine to deal with everything by myself and the nurse wanted me to act as some sort of counsellor for the other patients, who, to be quite frank, were more mentally impaired than emotionally damaged. In the end I managed to get a free 2-hour therapy session with Barnardos, because I'd placed my child for adoption and qualified for this therapy under the single mother banner.

More than 20 years on, I've slowly managed to haul myself out of the pit of despair my bad childhood and loss of my child dragged me into, by paying for therapy here and there, and embarking on lots of my own too-many-bottles-of-wine therapy.

I don't know what the answer is, I wish I did. To this day when I hear a parent shout at their five year old child "you're just a stupid selfish fukcing cnut" (something I've heard far too often) I want to intervene and plead with them not to verbally abuse their child like that, but all that's likely to happen is their abusive tirade will be turned on me.

I can't read stories of child abuse without tears welling up - but nor can I read stories of animal abuse without tears welling up. I'm very sensitive to the issue of abuse, which probably rules me out of ever being objective enough to know what's too much (in terms of levels of abuse) and what warrants intervention and what steps should be taken to remedy this sad situation.

Which brings me back to Pushtrak's question, which is also one of my own: what do you think should be done?

Nodin · 22-06-2012 09:31AM

ColeTrain wrote: »

I don't see how you can put this on the ordinary citizen. We pay our taxes so that there is a proper system in place. Are you going to blame the deficiencies in the health system on Irish people for not caring enough?

There isn't a proper system in place, and we have a low tax regime.

Dravokivich · 22-06-2012 09:39AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

my question is why dont irish people think child abuse is wrong?

What makes you even for a second consider we think it's alright?

Most of us are not in a position to actively change a thing about it, doesn't mean we condone it anyway.

The only people that thinks it's right are the abusers and if you've been on boards long enough, you'd have a fair idea of how most people here feel about those who abuse children.

Ireland in denial

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