Why are you an atheist?

Sarky · 21-06-2012 12:25am

So how come almost no religion bothers with that relevant message?

The Mad Hatter · 21-06-2012 12:25am

PBroderick wrote: »

Yes I have read it, both Old and New Testament.

The message of the New Testament is very simple: treat others as you would like to be treated.

That is the Christian message in one sentence. If we ignored everything else and concentrated on that, the world would be a perfect place.

As relevant today as it was 2,000 years ago.

What about all the other stuff in the bible, then? There's quite a lot besides that, you know.

Sure, if everyone treated others as they'd like to be treated, the world would be a better place. Did you really need a book to tell you that?

Turtwig · 21-06-2012 12:37am

PBroderick wrote: »

The message of the New Testament is very simple: treat others as you would like to be treated.
.

You conveniently seem to be ignoring the end times. Even if we all live a perfect life treating every other human with fairness and respect if we don't believe unto the Lord Jesus Christ we perish.

So the message of the NT can only accurately be simplified along the lines of The Golden rule with the added requirement of faith in God.

Leaving out faith in God as the message of the NT is laughably misleading.

PBroderick · 21-06-2012 12:42am

Sarky wrote: »

So how come almost no religion bothers with that relevant message?

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

What about all the other stuff in the bible, then? There's quite a lot besides that, you know.

Sure, if everyone treated others as they'd like to be treated, the world would be a better place. Did you really need a book to tell you that?

Jernal wrote: »

You conveniently seem to be ignoring the end times. Even if we all live a perfect life treating every other human with fairness and respect if we don't believe unto the Lord Jesus Christ we perish.

So the message of the NT can only accurately be simplified along the lines of The Golden rule with the added requirement of faith in God.

Leaving out faith in God as the message of the NT is laughably misleading.

Jesus' message is that: treat others as you would like to be treated.

Jesus didn't hang around with middle-class white people. He hung around with prostitutes, lepers....the lowest of the low.

He said how you treat these people is how you treat God.

The message is clear, concise and beautiful. There has been so much crap about the Vatican and child abuse and everything else that the message has been lost.

Jesus wouldn't care whether you believe in him or not, just if you follow the message he gave all of us.....tolerance, empathy and compassion.

Sarky · 21-06-2012 12:47am

That didn't actually answer anyone's questions.

Turtwig · 21-06-2012 12:52am

PBroderick wrote: »

Jesus' message is that: treat others as you would like to be treated.

Doesn't mean you're going to avoid hell though does it? So it's misleading as hell (:p) because our finite existence on this planet is nothing compared to avoiding spending an eternity in hell. So why you truncate the message baffles me?

"Treat others as you would like to be treated and believe in God."
Is the only way you can even vaguely represent Christ's message honestly.

PBroderick · 21-06-2012 12:54am

Sarky wrote: »

That didn't actually answer anyone's questions.

But people here are treating the bible like it's to be followed like a set of rules.

It isn't a set of rules. For a start, the New Testament is several people's opinion of what Jesus said, written over and over and over again.

But if you read it, really read it, the message from Jesus is very clear.

Atheists bang on and on about scientific proof of this, that and the other, but if you don't believe, well you don't believe.

Jesus didn't exist like Stephen Fry on Q.I....it's not an exam or a thesis.

It's a belief in giving everyone, both individuals and society, a happier life and a better world.

The bible's purpose is for people to take in the message and spread the message....it's no good on it's own cos we're all in this together.

I was raised a catholic like most Irish people and I still don't know if I believe any of it, but I believe in the message given....that is for sure.

Sarky · 21-06-2012 12:57am

So... why does just about every religious organisation, particularly the catholic church, disagree with you?

21-06-2012 1:00am

PBroderick wrote: »

Jesus' message is that: treat others as you would like to be treated.

Jesus didn't hang around with middle-class white people. He hung around with prostitutes, lepers....the lowest of the low.

Jesus wanted to be treated like a prostitute?

Turtwig · 21-06-2012 1:01am

PBroderick wrote: »

But people here are treating the bible like it's to be followed like a set of rules.

It seems you're missing the core concept.

PBroderick · 21-06-2012 1:03am

Jernal wrote: »

Doesn't mean you're going to avoid hell though does it? So it's misleading as hell (:p) because our finite existence on this planet is nothing compared to avoiding spending an eternity in hell. So why you truncate the message baffles me?
"Treat others as you would like to be treated and believe in God."
Is the only way you can even vaguely represent Christ's message honestly.

Again, "hell" is not to be taken as a literal place. It can just mean the absence of Christianity. My take on it is that is where you stay when you don't embrace the message and the morality Jesus gave us.

I would say those with a greed for money and possessions will live and die in Hell, that's my take on it.

21-06-2012 1:03am

PBroderick wrote: »

Again, "hell" is not to be taken as a literal place. It can just mean the absence of Christianity.

I always wondered why my bedroom was warmer than the rest of the house.

PBroderick · 21-06-2012 1:04am

Jernal wrote: »

It seems you're missing the core concept.

Despite the 'hilarious' picture, it is you who is missing the point. It is most definitely not a book of rules.

You should really read it and make up your own mind.

The Mad Hatter · 21-06-2012 1:05am

PBroderick wrote: »

Despite the 'hilarious' picture, it is you who is missing the point. It is most definitely not a book of rules.

You should really read it and make up your own mind.

I think you'll find that rather a lot of us here have done just that.

PBroderick · 21-06-2012 1:06am

Deleted User wrote: »

I always wondered why my bedroom was warmer than the rest of the house.

At this point, I'm stepping out of this thread

Sarky · 21-06-2012 1:07am

Could you offer any insight as to why your claims on what Christianity is is mostly at odds with the majority of Christian denominations? I think you might have missed the question the last two times.

PBroderick · 21-06-2012 1:12am

PBroderick wrote: »

At this point, I'm stepping out of this thread

.

Sarky · 21-06-2012 1:13am

I'll have to assume that you don't have an answer then. Fair enough.

Sonics2k · 21-06-2012 1:15am

Galvasean · 21-06-2012 1:34am

In his defense, the one sentence from the bible that he takes literally is the best one.

Sarky · 21-06-2012 1:38am

Galvasean wrote: »

In his defense, the one sentence from the bible that he takes literally is the best one.

No argument there. It's a fine sentiment. I'm just curious as to why it's almost never used or practised by most religious organisations. I had hoped he would offer his opinion.

PBroderick · 21-06-2012 1:40am

Sarky wrote: »

I'll have to assume that you don't have an answer then. Fair enough.

I've had enough of the disrespect here, but I will leave you with this appropriate quote from the New Testament:

"let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way." Romans 14:1-23

Sarky · 21-06-2012 1:44am

Could you at least show me where I disrespected you then? Because I'm fairly sure I didn't. But I'm more than happy to have you prove me wrong there.

PBroderick · 21-06-2012 1:49am

Sarky wrote: »

No argument there. It's a fine sentiment. I'm just curious as to why it's almost never used or practised by most religious organisations. I had hoped he would offer his opinion.

Ok, the answer is in your question..."religious organisations"

The Roman Catholic church these days, much like a football club, has become engorged in money, status and power....none of which resemble anything Jesus had in mind.

Remember he tore sh*t out of the Temple when a market took over.

Jesus preached morality between 'brothers'....me and you.

As I said already, he hung around with the lowest of the low. Someone earlier stupidly said something as a joke about treating God like a prostitute, but that is absolutely what Jesus wanted.

To treat a prostitute as we would treat God, the Pope, the President....anyone and everyone.

You can see why the Pope being ferried around the world as a VIP does not sit well with me or any Christian....likewise the Royal Family or Alan Sugar.

The Christian message is a decent message for anyone, it doesn't need a religion or baptism or anything else for it to be passed on.

I get a bit sick of these cheap gags here. Christians are a soft target....they are taught to turn the other cheek and not retaliate....Muslims would not be set upon so quickly I think

Sarky · 21-06-2012 1:58am

There you go, thanks for finally answering.

If you ever listened to certain handful of cranks you'd think we did nothing but take cheap shots at Islam. You think we do nothing but take cheap shots at Christianity.

You can't both be right. If we highlighted the silliness of both equally, as I think we do, you would both in fact be wrong. Worth looking into so you'll know for sure, don't you think?

PBroderick · 21-06-2012 2:07am

Sarky wrote: »

There you go, thanks for finally answering.

If you ever listened to certain handful of cranks you'd think we did nothing but take cheap shots at Islam. You think we do nothing but take cheap shots at Christianity.

You can't both be right. If we highlighted the silliness of both equally, as I think we do, you would both in fact be wrong. Worth looking into so you'll know for sure, don't you think?

It's difficult to get any message from the Atheists here, as most of it seems to be an aggressive attack on religion, rather than a comfortable settled view.

I only waded in here tonight, but already had two jibes at me and some 'hilarious' picture posted too. That's after three or four posts by me?

No moderation, no warnings....is that supposed to represent atheism....schoolboy pot-shots like that?

RMD · 21-06-2012 2:12am

Although the thread is 10 pages in I'll offer my reasoning for why I'm atheist.

1) Science offers a lot more answers than religion does. IMO religion is an answer for those who are too scared to truly explore the possibilities of the entirety of humankind and life as we know it, from the tiny spectacle that is earth to the ever expanding existence that is space.

2) Religion prevents progress. It can't be denied a major bar to progress in many scientific areas is religious barriers and those who follow it. Stem cells offer huge leaps and bounds for all humankind yet the major resistance comes from the religious lobby groups. Religion prevents choice (abortion) and discriminates (homosexuals, women) through the justification of what was written in a millennia old book. The same can be said euthanasia. It was only this year that a stroke victim who could do next to nothing in his life and made it well known he wanted to die was granted to right to be killed. His story can be read here. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/world/europe/stroke-victim-in-great-britain-wins-right-to-seek-legal-euthanasia.html

Furthermore to this story, the BBC did a very interesting documentary on him and others like him. A woman suffering from MS wanted to die and made it well known, she couldn't bare living the life she was living knowing it was going to get steadily worse. Her family also wanted to grant her wish but they couldn't as it would be considered murder. So ultimately what happened is she drove her motorized wheelchair into a river and suffered an agonizing death as she drowned. Nobody would have been hurt by her euthanistion as it was the wish of both her and her family. Yet due to religion preventing progress, she died and in a horribly painful and undignified fashion.

3) When I was a child I was told God was loving, God would look after us, God was great and would allow us up into heaven and all that stuff. Then my 4 year old cousin became terminally ill. What did my 4 year old cousin do? Nothing to deserve whatsoever, where was this loving god then? After this happened I ended up with another cousin, she was born blind and heavily handicapped. She had no choice in the cards he was dealt, she has no future in life and is essentially a tomato with a slight knowledge of stimulus around her but nothing to grant her a life worth living. Where's this loving god yet again? What was her sin to bring her to such a position?

I have no problem with people believing in something that offers them hope and comfort but please don't tell me God loves us or God loves me. From my experience that is nothing but utter bull.

Sarky · 21-06-2012 2:17am

Have you considered your own attitude being a factor, PBroderick? You've been pretty evasive; I had to ask you the same question 3 times and get you to indirectly admit your accusation of disrespect was a generalisation before you answered. There are other posters you've continued to ignore, too. That sort of thing is itself disrespectful.

Loath as I am to make use of clichés, respect is a two-way street after all.

nozzferrahhtoo · 21-06-2012 7:51am

PBroderick wrote: »

At this point, I'm stepping out of this thread

PBroderick wrote: »

Ok, the answer is....

Nozzferrahhtoo's first rule of Internet Forums strikes again

It goes "The probability of any user posting on a thread increases in direct proportion to the number of times that user has said (s)he will not longer be posting on that thread".

However it is unclear why you are moved to be as prissy as you have been. You have waded into, and attempted to derail into a discussion about the bible, a thread that is by atheists, for atheists, exploring the simple question as to why they are atheists. And you decided to make a fight out of it.

And you have been peacefully tolerated and gently disagreed with while doing so. Yet you went off on one anyway throwing toys out of the pram and storming out of the thread.... and back in again... and then storming out again... and back in again.... in a comical re-enactment of one of those people who storms out of a room, slams the door, then bursts back in seconds later going "Oh, and one more thing.....!".

You are not representing yourself well here, and the "Oh everyone is being so mean and rude to me" approach is digging that hole deeper, not making you look better.

That said however since you did wade in with your Bible defense....

PBroderick wrote: »

It is written to spread a morality and a code of living that is as relevant today as it was 2,000 years ago.

PBroderick wrote: »

The message of the New Testament is very simple: treat others as you would like to be treated.

.... it should be noted that the only reason it is "relevant" today is that you are cherry picking the bits you feel are nice and relevant. You like the message "Treat others as you like to be treated" and so you simply dismiss the entire New Testament, distill it down to that one line, espouse it and declare this makes the Bible relevant.

It has nothing to do with the Bible. YOU agree with that message. You just point to the Bible to support it but it is you really and not the Bible espousing it. The Golden rule concept predates the New Testament, and has been around in many forms long before it. You are simply taking a modern and relevant moral idea TO the bible and crediting the bible with being relevant off the back of that.

There is an old Jewish tale about the Torah for example in Talmudic traditions. Hillel a more liberal follower of The Law and Shammai a more Strict follower were asked by a gentile to teach him the Torah while standing on one leg. Shammai gives the man an whack with a rod. Hillel however famously replies, “That which is hateful to you, do not unto another. This is the whole Torah. The rest is commentary. Now go study."

Despite the obvious wisdom one can potentially glean from the Golden Rule concepts however it is worth noting that it is lacking in many regards too. Clearly the Golden Rule is only as good as the person who is uttering it. If I were a masochist for example then "Do unto others as I would have done unto myself" tells me that inflicting pain is a good thing and I should do it to as many people as possible.

coffee_cake · 21-06-2012 8:46am

Getting a priest to clean out your mildew is certainly still relevant, as is telling your son you're going to kill him and nearly going through with it before going "lol jk", or saying "i'll kill my daughter to show you how holy i am", or "don't be mean or bears will eat you"
very relevant

I love the "if you ignore everything in the bible I don't agree with then the remainder of the bible is this awesome bit I agree with" post
don't forget jesus telling people to give up their families and everything they own or they're not good enough

Why are you an atheist?

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