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Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,230 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Dempsey wrote: »
    Dont forget that Juve are claiming 2 stripped titles as theirs aswell.

    Yes, let's throw a completely different case in there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    Yes, let's throw a completely different case in there.

    Its a club claiming something that isnt recognised by anyone else.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    So you're saying a Newco should also not be punished what so ever for any wrong doings of the Oldco ?

    Or wait, did you want that cake and eat it ? ;)

    Well it seems that the big tax case is no longer an issue, so in that sense, the Newco will not be punished for the wrong-doings of the soon-to-cease Rangers FC. I would assume that the transfer embargo is also no longer an issue with the Newco.

    As far as I'm concerned, the Newco should be able to apply for entry into Division 3, just like any other new club. That's best for everyone, including the new club. Rangers FC will be killed off, the £5.5m (or whatever it is) will be divided up between the creditors, and both HMRC and Ticketus can try to sue Whyte/Murray and whoever else for some more of their cash.

    There should be absolutely no question of a new club walking straight into the SPL though. That would be an absolute disgrace, and would make a mockery of the SPL. I'm pretty sure it's not going to happen anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Murray and Whyte were praying for a CVA to be agreed. Rejection of the CVA means that everything Rangers has done can and will be scrutinised by HMRC and others


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,230 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Most likely, HMRC have said as much that rejection of the CVA means that BDO (the liquidators) can investigate everything and everyone.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭bobmalooka


    I wouldn't start making plans for the new Rangers/Govan Globetrotters just yet, how D&P think they can hand over at least £50million of assets to Green for 10% of their value without the creditors questioning the validity of the deal is beyond me.

    These assets will be disputed for along time and I dont see it being sorted by August, the new liquidators have already stated D&P's contract with Green wont stand up.

    Duff and Duffer have engineered another mess which surprise surprise will see them picking up cheques for another few months while Rangers fans are no closer to a resolution.

    I'm calling it now this mess wont be sorted in time for a new club to play at Ibrox next season next season.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    bobmalooka wrote: »
    I wouldn't start making plans for the new Rangers/Govan Globetrotters just yet, how D&P think they can hand over at least £50million of assets to Green for 10% of their value without the creditors questioning the validity of the deal is beyond me.

    That is the bit I don't get...how on earth can they get away with that? Then again I guess a lot of property developer did something very similar here didn't they.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    How The Scotsman sees a NewCo readmission vote going:
    ABERDEEN

    The Pittodrie support, through their Trust, have been among the most vociferous opponents of a Rangers newco that would betray a “rigged system” in which there were clubs “too big too fail” and cause them to desert their club en masse. Their chairman, Stewart Milne, wants all this to go away. His club are £12m in debt, he is financing a £38m new stadium and would only say last month: “We will do what we believe is in the best interests of Aberdeen Football Club and Scottish football.”

    How they might vote: Milne may be backed in to the ‘no’ corner by a support he cannot afford to lose.

    CELTIC

    They have deliberately said little beyond chief executive Peter Lawwell’s catch-all: “Our guiding principle is to do what is in the best interests of Celtic and our supporters, while upholding the interests and reputation of Scottish football.” The club that stands to lose most financially if there is no Rangers in the SPL, in any ideal world they wouldn’t want that but there would be a mass revolt among their support if they didn’t serve sporting integrity in the expected fashion.

    How they might vote: A stick-on ‘no to newco’ because any other response would be commercial suicide.

    DUNDEE UNITED

    Owner Stephen Thompson has admitted to attitudes hardening over Rangers after they went to the civil courts. His mind seems to be being made up by a Tannadice faithful who are letting him know they will turn their back on the club if he favours a Rangers newco. “I was told that, at Motherwell at the end of last season, every turnstile had a poster above it saying ‘no to newco’. It was the same at Aberdeen. Fans are feeling very strongly about it. I have been sent hundreds of letters and emails on the subject. Some of them are from people who have been season-ticket holders for 30 years. I have made my mind up, which I won’t go public on. You have to listen to the fans as well but you have a responsibility to the club as well. That doesn’t necessarily mean I want them in. Don’t read too much in that.”

    How they might vote: A probable ‘no’ but might be swayed with heavy sanctions for a newco Rangers.

    HEARTS

    On the line for around £600,000 in lost revenue if the TV deal takes a heavy hit with no Rangers in the SPL, money – including the £800,000 Rangers owe them for Lee Wallace – will dictate their attitude. Hence director Sergejus Fedotovas’ take: “Justice is very important but lessons learned are more valuable. Scottish football should not put all focus on the punishment.”

    How they might vote: Certain to back a Rangers return.

    HIBERNIAN

    No-one has been more unequivocal about their rejection of a fiscal imperative to accept Rangers as a newco than Hibernian chairman Rod Petrie. “Fundamental to us at our club is to make sure the integrity of the game is not called into question and that the sporting integrity of the competition we take part in is maintained at the highest standards. It’s not a question of any sum of money in return for that integrity – integrity is beyond purchase. It’s important that all clubs can have a place within football, provided they have earned it in a sporting sense and also have abided by the rules. If we are called upon to make any decisions we will try to do the right thing and uphold the integrity of the competition that we are engaged in.”

    How they might vote: A Rangers refusnik.

    INVERNESS CT

    Reacted angrily to Rangers’ Court of Session challenge to the SFA but won’t want any uncertainties over revenues when finances tight. Chairman Kenny Cameron said: “There is much still to discuss – but I hope this will bring certainty and closure to this issue. We just need to move on from this situation.”

    How they might vote: Will want a Rangers in the SPL.

    KILMARNOCK

    There is no guesswork required to determine the intentions of club chairman Michael Johnston. “Members see the commercial benefits of having Rangers, even as a newco,” he said last month. “The clubs are mindful of a sporting integrity aspect, but the commercial benefits may outweigh that.”

    How they might vote: Another certainty to accept any Rangers. Johnston has also cautioned against any further punishments for the club that plays out of Ibrox.

    MOTHERWELL

    Another club whose minds might be made up by their masses, the club’s proposed fan ownership model is dependent on listening to them. As they admitted in mealy-mouth fashion. “We do not believe we can separate the sporting integrity of our league from the sustainable future of our club – the two go hand-in-hand. Any decisions we take as a board are made in the best interests of the club with a view to achieving our stated aims for ownership and funding. [A newco proposal we would] fully discuss with representatives of our supporters’ groups, prior to making any decision.”

    How they might vote: The rank and file seem to be pushing them reluctantly towards the ‘no’ camp.

    ROSS COUNTY

    The newest member of the 11, they are not financially dependent on the SPL, in whatever form it takes. Their chairman Roy MacGregor’s stance reflects that. “I will listen to the arguments. I will not prejudge. We are taking a calculated risk on our budget for next season and it was done before this situation. It will make no difference,” he said.

    How they might vote: For their first season among the elite they could feel cheated if there was no Rangers. File under “don’t know”.

    ST JOHNSTONE

    Contradictory noises have come from chairman Steven Brown. Has said his club don’t need Rangers but that it would be a “disaster” if the brand was lost to the SPL. Then last week he stated: “I certainly will not let Rangers in without sanctions. The feeling from the people I’ve spoken to is they won’t let Rangers in with a ‘get out free card’.”

    How they might vote: Will vote Rangers in with the right penalty tariff.

    ST MIRREN

    Another of the swaying brigade, chairman Stewart Gilmour has previously stated Scottish football needs “a strong Rangers and a strong Celtic” but lacerated the Ibrox club for their legal recourse beyond the game. St Mirren’s position will be determined by whether any newco vote is held before 4 July, when ownership of the club is set to transfer to a supporters’ group.

    How they might vote: If the current board are still in place Rangers will be supported, if the fans group have taken over perhaps not.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭the realpigiron


    That's a no prediction to newcoRangers in the SPL next season so from The Scotsman. They need the support of 8 of the 12 I think.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,748 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Front page of todays Herald
    002ptch.jpg



    Link to a bigger picture
    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/98/002qso.jpg/


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  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    That's a no prediction to newcoRangers in the SPL next season so from The Scotsman. They need the support of 8 of the 12 I think.

    Hmmmm, looking at it like that, I'm not so sure.... it could be tight. I think there's probably only 3 absolute definites there (Celtic, Hibs and Aberdeen). I think the others could sway either way tbh.

    Personally, I think the fact that the idea of a new club walking straight into the SPL is even being discussed is shambolic. This shouldn't even be going to a vote - the SPL should simply be refusing entry of a new club straight into the league. The SPL and SFA have no balls though.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    Front page of todays Herald
    002ptch.jpg



    Link to a bigger picture
    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/98/002qso.jpg/

    Still no broken crest???????? :confused: :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,919 ✭✭✭RoryMac


    PauloMN wrote: »
    Hmmmm, looking at it like that, I'm not so sure.... it could be tight. I think there's probably only 3 absolute definites there (Celtic, Hibs and Aberdeen). I think the others could sway either way tbh.

    Personally, I think the fact that the idea of a new club walking straight into the SPL is even being discussed is shambolic. This shouldn't even be going to a vote - the SPL should simply be refusing entry of a new club straight into the league. The SPL and SFA have no balls though.

    Very hard to tell how the vote will go but I think it will most likely be passed if there are heavy sanctions against Rangers, the problem then might be the SPL persuading Rangers to accept heavy sanctions.

    There is a real lack of leadership from the SPL & SFA chiefs on this whole issue, the SFA for example must know what UEFA/FIFA's view is on the issue and what penalties the football governing bodies believe to be fair. Also has there been any talks between the SPL and SKY/ESPN to see if they are going to walk if Rangers are out of the SPL?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    RoryMac wrote: »
    Also has there been any talks between the SPL and SKY/ESPN to see if they are going to walk if Rangers are out of the SPL?

    Can they walk?

    Is it known if such a clause exists in the contract that there has to be two Glasgow teams, one in Ibrox?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,919 ✭✭✭RoryMac


    Des wrote: »
    Can they walk?

    Is it known if such a clause exists in the contract that there has to be two Glasgow teams, one in Ibrox?

    Apparently there is, it was put there I guess to protect against either of the clubs looking to move to another league but it is being widely mentioned as a reason for Rangers being allowed stay in the SPL. The loss of TV revenue would be a big blow to most of the SPL teams.

    I'd love to know what UEFA/FIFA's view is on such a clause.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭TheBuilder


    Des wrote: »
    RoryMac wrote: »
    Also has there been any talks between the SPL and SKY/ESPN to see if they are going to walk if Rangers are out of the SPL?

    Can they walk?

    Is it known if such a clause exists in the contract that there has to be two Glasgow teams, one in Ibrox?

    The SPL confirmed the new sky deal starting this year is dependent on four old firm games a season. If it doesn't happen, they have the right to rip up the deal or renegotiate a lower amount.

    I believe we'll be in division 3, and I'm quite happy for that to happen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭bobmalooka


    TheBuilder wrote: »
    The SPL confirmed the new sky deal starting this year is dependent on four old firm games a season. If it doesn't happen, they have the right to rip up the deal or renegotiate a lower amount.

    I believe we'll be in division 3, and I'm quite happy for that to happen.

    Who's we? come friday Rangers are gone, they aren't being demoted they are gone.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    bobmalooka wrote: »
    TheBuilder wrote: »
    The SPL confirmed the new sky deal starting this year is dependent on four old firm games a season. If it doesn't happen, they have the right to rip up the deal or renegotiate a lower amount.

    I believe we'll be in division 3, and I'm quite happy for that to happen.

    Who's we? come friday Rangers are gone, they aren't being demoted they are gone.

    I believe D&P are already organising a mass fan transfer from Rangers to NewClub, it will be so seemless most will hardly notice they are supporting a completely new entity :p.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,627 ✭✭✭Lawrence1895


    I believe D&P are already organising a mass fan transfer from Rangers to NewClub, it will be so seemless most will hardly notice they are supporting a completely new entity :p.

    Unless they change their colours into Green and White :P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,230 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    It will still be Rangers, the only thing that changes is the company that would hold the SPL/SFL/whatever league we play in license.

    The trophies and titles were won by Rangers FC, not The Rangers Football Club plc.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Looks like HMRC will be going after Whyte, Murray and all the former directors for the tax liability before Rangers will be wound up. Someone is going to pay for it all yet! I believe that Rangers(in administration) will still be in existence next year! HMRC will scrutinise everything and all the tactics Murray/Whyte used as they build up to take on the EPL clubs for their liabilities. They will be a hot knife through butter with the next club.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    Seems Charles was a bit hasty with his "players must move to Newco" line:
    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/06/13/rangers-in-crisis-players-will-not-be-in-breach-of-contract-if-they-refuse-to-join-newco-says-union-chief-86908-23895504/

    Surprised he came out with that to be honest. Surely when a company is liquidated, all bets are off as regards employment contracts should the employee not agree to move to the new entity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    The players union have been reiterating that stance since the first mention of a newco but neither the SPL or D&P said anything until this point. EU Law protects the players and I'd imagine the rules that the SPL has in place regarding a newco (i.e. contracts transferred to the SPL then to the newco) would fall flat on its face if taken to court.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    PauloMN wrote: »
    Seems Charles was a bit hasty with his "players must move to Newco" line:
    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/06/13/rangers-in-crisis-players-will-not-be-in-breach-of-contract-if-they-refuse-to-join-newco-says-union-chief-86908-23895504/

    Surprised he came out with that to be honest. Surely when a company is liquidated, all bets are off as regards employment contracts should the employee not agree to move to the new entity.

    He has made quite a few gaffs recently, I am sure threatening the players with legal action will endear them to his new regime. I am beginning to come around to the idea that his public statements prior to the CVA were designed to ensure it failed.

    I get the feeling that it won't be too long before the supporters of Rangers 2012 will have the "Green Out" banners at the ready.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭bobmalooka


    He has made quite a few gaffs recently, I am sure threatening the players with legal action will endear them to his new regime. I am beginning to come around to the idea that his public statements prior to the CVA were designed to ensure it failed.

    I get the feeling that it won't be too long before the supporters of Rangers 2012 will have the "Green Out" banners at the ready.

    of course he wanted the CVA to fail. He offered £8 or so million while telling everyone he had almost 3 times that to blow on new players, he's been around the block and knew that would make any creditors blood boil. and Gattuso :D the icing on the cake

    Also look at his record in business. he buys business that are struggling and liquidates them, gutting what he can on the way.

    I'd love to know has he any connections to a certain Mr Whyte or any his mystery money men do.

    Rangers 2012 fans are an awfull long way from seeing their proposed club play football, I doubt Greens purchase of Rangers assets will go unchallanged. Hard to see it being ironed out before the season starts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭ColeTrain


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    It will still be Rangers, the only thing that changes is the company that would hold the SPL/SFL/whatever league we play in license.

    The trophies and titles were won by Rangers FC, not The Rangers Football Club plc.



    The titles will be going to the grave with Rangers.

    The new co will have some catching up to do but we welcome the chase :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,230 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    ColeTrain wrote: »
    The titles will be going to the grave with Rangers.

    The new co will have some catching up to do but we welcome the chase :pac:

    What part of 'It will still be Rangers FC' did you not get ?

    Again, because you seem to be unable to grasp this: It's not the company that wins titles.

    Those titles have been won by Rangers FC, the football club.
    And if the company behind Rangers FC changes that doesn't mean the club is dead.

    We all know that the average Celtic fan will keep repeating this 'Your history is gone' crap ad nauseum, but that doesn't make it any more true.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭ColeTrain


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    What part of 'It will still be Rangers FC' did you not get ?

    Again, because you seem to be unable to grasp this: It's not the company that wins titles.

    Those titles have been won by Rangers FC, the football club.
    And if the company behind Rangers FC changes that doesn't mean the club is dead.

    We all know that the average Celtic fan will keep repeating this 'Your history is gone' crap ad nauseum, but that doesn't make it any more true.

    I didn't "get it" because you're wrong.

    You can Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better but the record books will say different. You start at zero.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,230 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    I'm not wrong, but if it makes you feel better then be my guest.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭ColeTrain


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    I'm not wrong, but if it makes you feel better then be my guest.

    You're having a hard time grasping what liquidation is all about.


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