RTÉNL Saorview-DTT Public Information

Richard · 06-06-2012 02:50PM

Elmo wrote: »

Is it an RTÉ show or a RTÉ show?

a UHF aerial or an UHF aerial?

I think I would say a for U and an for R (or is that AR).

An RTÉ show.
An FTA broadcast
An STV show
A UTV show

Elmo · 06-06-2012 02:58PM

Extinction wrote: »

I'd have made it even more annoying and made it bigger and flash, the fact that the switchover is happening now seems to be lost on a lot of people who are waiting until the last minute, they are probably the same people who would complain the loudest if there is a short supply of receivers when they do want to change. A lot of customers ask if this is realy going to happen and a few have expressed their opinion that they cant see the mast switch offs happening at all. Some reckon the that the 24th of October is just a date picked to panic people into changing and that DSO will be deferred until next year so they are waiting to see what happens on the 24th.

I don't believe it will happen on the 24th, politically I think it we will see a U-turn. I know I shouldn't say that but....

Antenna · 06-06-2012 03:09PM

MarkK wrote: »

Deeply flawed?
The RoI is one region where TV is concerned, we don't have regional TV.
UK regions such as Granada and London have a higher population than Ireland

You also need to delay switchoff to transmitters which viewers in Northern Ireland use.
You can't switch off the main transmitters and leave the local relays running, as the main transmitters feed the relays.
So which transmitters should have been switched off first?

What I meant by 'region' was the coverage area covered by each main transmitter and its relays. Messages tailored for each transmitter area could still be inserted.

Mention was made of possible shortages. If for example there was a rush on stock (STBs) in London for ASO there, a retailer/wholesaler could easily move in stock from other nearby parts of the UK as they are not all switching at the same time.

regarding relays, some relays could continue by modulating from a digital source as has already been temporarily done at many relays during the mast replacement works at Mullaghanish&Truskmore. It would seem only fair to have some extension at relays for areas that would otherwise have to get Saorsat.

Which transmitters should close first? - a number of factors, not least the Saorsat issue,
and if there is an imminent need for current analogue frequencies for anything else.

Macy0161 · 06-06-2012 03:12PM

Richard wrote: »

An RTÉ show.
An FTA broadcast
An STV show
A UTV show

I'd go "A FTA Broadcast". You're right with the rest.

As for regional turn off, I don't see the issue with the whole state going at the same time. The UK has regionalised TV, so it does make sense there.

I suppose counter to my previous giving out (in that if it does annoy people to make the switch), the older people I've helped set up saorview for are walking adverts for DTT - they're genuinely amazed at the difference in picture quality.

Sam Russell · 06-06-2012 03:13PM

DTV is a fact and is fully working. Mount Leinster and few power changes will occur on 24th of October, but as far as this jurisdiction is concerned, all is now working and has been for over a year. That is not the case in NI. The ASO is also the digital switch-on there.

We should have switched analogue off on Oct 24th 2011.

Elmo · 06-06-2012 03:16PM

I think regional switch over could have worked a few years ago. Sweden Regionally swiched over between Sept 2006 and 2007 in 5 stages, but they to have local TV, but have a smaller population than London.

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'd go "A FTA Broadcast". You're right with the rest.

I was thinking the same.

MarkK · 06-06-2012 03:24PM

Antenna wrote: »

What I meant by 'region' was the coverage area covered by each main transmitter and its relays. Messages tailored for each transmitter area could still be inserted.

UK Regions can and do carry local adverts, there is no such facility in place in Ireland.

Antenna wrote: »

regarding relays, some relays could continue by modulating from a digital source as has already been temporarily done at many relays during the mast replacement works at Mullaghanish&Truskmore. It would seem only fair to have some extension at relays for areas that would otherwise have to get Saorsat.

This is not like how the UK did it. Seems like extra cost and complication for little benefit.

Antenna wrote: »

Which transmitters should close first? - a number of factors, not least Saorsat
and if there is an imminent need for current analogue frequencies for anything else.

That's why I was asking which transmitters, there is no obvious "region" to switch off in Ireland. You would need to switch off about half the country for it to be worthwhile.
You need to keep the ones near the border going for NI viewers who can't get Saorview yet.
The main transmitters of the south and west tend to be VHF for RTE so not much "frequency clearing" benefit from shutting them down early and they also the ones which will leave blackspots requiring Saorsat following switchover.

zg3409 · 06-06-2012 03:34PM

Elmo wrote: »

I don't believe it will happen on the 24th, politically I think it we will see a U-turn. I know I shouldn't say that but....

Are we taking bets? PM me!

Richard · 06-06-2012 06:35PM

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'd go "A FTA Broadcast". You're right with the rest.

.

I was thinking when when I wrote that we never say "FTA" only write it. If spoken, it would be "a Free To Air" broadcast.

Richard · 06-06-2012 06:38PM

Elmo wrote: »

I don't believe it will happen on the 24th, politically I think it we will see a U-turn. I know I shouldn't say that but....

I think it won't, mainly because of the coordination with NI. The NI date won't slip, so I don't think the date'll slip elsewhere.

The Cush · 06-06-2012 08:17PM

Elmo wrote: »

I don't believe it will happen on the 24th, politically I think it we will see a U-turn. I know I shouldn't say that but....

From the horse's mouth so to speak

Saorview: Brian wrote: »

I don't normally post outside of the "Queries for SAORVIEW" sticky thread, but I would like to comment on this discussion. I can say with 100% certainty that all analogue terrestrial television in the Republic of Ireland, VHF and UHF, will switch off on October 24th this year. There is no consideration being given in RTÉ or RTÉ NL, to any extension on that date, for any reason.

Regards,

SAORVIEW Brian.

Saorview: Brian wrote: »

Needless to say I can't speak for COMREG, but I can say with absolute confidence that in RTÉ and RTÉ NL there is no plan to extend analogue transmissions beyond October 24th. At Mt. Leinster, Clermont Cairn and Holywell Hill the analogue channels will be used for SAORVIEW from October 24th onwards (at Holywell Hill this concerns Mux 2 only). There are numerous other reasons why analogue will not switch off in a phased basis. All analogue services will switch off at the same time on October 24th.

Regards,

SAORVIEW Brian.

marno21 · 06-06-2012 08:47PM

That quote has been posted many times, but that's the answer he/Saorview is always going to give.

He's hardly going to come on here and say "Yera, we'll see on October 24 whether we'll turn it off or not in certain areas".

Personally, I think some transmitters, especially self helps will stay online. Comreg are hardly going to come out to the backends of Cork and Kerry on the 25th raiding self help operators.

Elmo · 06-06-2012 08:50PM

I will believe it when I see it TBH. Maybe it will happen, but I don't think there are any guarantees.

It should not stop the powers that be getting the message out there, regardless of the date of Switch over.

zilog_jones · 06-06-2012 09:12PM

RTÉ have changed their DOG:

Now in the bottom right, with a lighter grey background.

Here's what happens to it during 4:3 programming:

Still sometimes hard to see the 'X' depending what's behind it (like Del's jacket there), but it seems like an improvement.

The TG4 DOG has not changed.

I've noticed they tend to show the larger message only after the title sequences of a programme - probably a good idea as people are more likely to be paying attention to the screen.

I hear the DOGs are not present on UPC analogue cable in Limerick - they must be using some other digital feed for the terrestrial channels now.

larchill · 06-06-2012 11:30PM

@ least the new location (bottom right) is somewhat less obtrusive than the previous location!

wil · 06-06-2012 11:55PM

Richard wrote:

An RTÉ show.
An FTA broadcast
An STV show
A UTV show .

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'd go "A FTA Broadcast". You're right with the rest. .

I'd say he was right with all of those, Sounds like a discussion for AH.

As for the dog/bug, the more annoying the better, some people wont bother looking to switch over until the switch off and then cue the pi$$ing and moaning. At least the bug reaches those concerned (exactly as suggested when this thread was much younger). Got moans back then too.
Now I suggest they increase it in size as ASO looms.

Gerry Wicklow · 07-06-2012 12:10AM

...and here was me thinking that "X 24th October" was just another referendum

The Cush · 07-06-2012 01:31AM

marno21 wrote: »

That quote has been posted many times, but that's the answer he/Saorview is always going to give.

He's hardly going to come on here and say "Yera, we'll see on October 24 whether we'll turn it off or not in certain areas".

Personally, I think some transmitters, especially self helps will stay online. Comreg are hardly going to come out to the backends of Cork and Kerry on the 25th raiding self help operators.

Here's another more recent quote, this time from Aidan Dunning, Secretary General, Department of Communications

Our D-Day this year is 24 October, when analog switches off and the screens go blank for anybody who owns analog televisions. We will remain in close contact with RTE on this particular issue, dealing with a small group of people to see if there are local mechanisms which could be put in place that may be of help in situations where the Saorsat operation may not be appropriate. However, I must emphasise that RTE has taken space on Saorsat at its own expense of €1 million per year. The purpose of doing that was to ensure that these people would not be left behind. That is the primary solution which has been put in place

Elmo · 07-06-2012 09:44AM

The Cush wrote: »

marno21 wrote: »

That quote has been posted many times, but that's the answer he/Saorview is always going to give.

He's hardly going to come on here and say "Yera, we'll see on October 24 whether we'll turn it off or not in certain areas".

Personally, I think some transmitters, especially self helps will stay online. Comreg are hardly going to come out to the backends of Cork and Kerry on the 25th raiding self help operators.

Here's another more recent quote, this time from Aidan Dunning, Secretary General, Department of Communications

Our D-Day this year is 24 October, when analog switches off and the screens go blank for anybody who owns analog televisions. We will remain in close contact with RTE on this particular issue, dealing with a small group of people to see if there are local mechanisms which could be put in place that may be of help in situations where the Saorsat operation may not be appropriate. However, I must emphasise that RTE has taken space on Saorsat at its own expense of €1 million per year. The purpose of doing that was to ensure that these people would not be left behind. That is the primary solution which has been put in place

You do realise that they could all be eating their own words. I certainly don't rely on sec gen's for definates.

Elmo · 07-06-2012 10:44AM

Reasons for it being in the one place:-

1. People see it in the same obvious place
2. The DOGs for RTÉjr, TRTÉ, Sport TG4, RTÉ Sport and Subtitles.

Though you know they could just remove all bugs from Analogue TV and just have the one BUG for DSO. I still don't really understand the reasoning behind BUGs for Station Identity.

Those viewing on analogue only have 4 TV channels and know which ones are which its not hard to differentiate between 4 TV channels and even if they have access to the 5 standard NI or Welsh channels they still won't be confused.

And as for Digital viewers well it is known as a EPG. DOG/BUG are redundant (save sporting results) QED.

:rolleyes:

zg3409 · 07-06-2012 10:58AM

zilog_jones wrote: »

I hear the DOGs are not present on UPC analogue cable in Limerick - they must be using some other digital feed for the terrestrial channels now.

The DOG is not present on Analogue Cable in Wicklow town neither. This system has no digital channels, nor broadband nor phone. As far as I know the headend is fed by MMDS. It used to be off air and Sky boxes. The digital MMDS feeds modulators which will continue to show RTE in analogue without the logo, long after October.

The Cush · 07-06-2012 11:08AM

Elmo wrote: »

You do realise that they could all be eating their own words. I certainly don't rely on sec gen's for definates.

If something unforeseen happens that delays ASO then that could be the case but the situation as it stands now and all the official sources confirm it'll be lights out for analogue broadcasting in the early hours of Oct 24th nationwide.

Elmo · 07-06-2012 11:14AM

The Cush wrote: »

If something unforeseen happens that delays ASO then that could be the case but the situation stands now and all the official sources confirm it'll be lights out for analogue broadcasting in the early hours of Oct 24th nationwide.

No prob. Just don't think official sources really thought about this at all that much. Lots of cups of tea and biscuits.

The Cush · 07-06-2012 11:33AM

Elmo wrote: »

Just don't think official sources really thought about this at all that much. Lots of cups of tea and biscuits.

The opposite I suspect considering an EU Directive requirement to clear the upper band of analogue broadcasting by year end and the Comreg requirement to have it available for mobile services from early 2013 not to mention the coordinated analogue switchoff with the UK's last region. Those reasons alone would tend to focus the mind.

Elmo · 07-06-2012 12:11PM

The Cush wrote: »

The opposite I suspect considering an EU Directive requirement to clear the upper band of analogue broadcasting by year end and the Comreg requirement to have it available for mobile services from early 2013 not to mention the coordinated analogue switchoff with the UK's last region. Those reasons alone would tend to focus the mind.

No offence to those officals

but I suppose your right to expect such issue would focus the mind. And I too expect it

Hotblack Desiato · 07-06-2012 10:13PM

marno21 wrote: »

Personally, I think some transmitters, especially self helps will stay online. Comreg are hardly going to come out to the backends of Cork and Kerry on the 25th raiding self help operators.

Getting their signal from...? Almost certainly they're getting it off-air in analogue. I doubt any of them went to the expense and dubious benefit of getting a feed off Sky, or MMDS (or Saorview or Saorsat

) although many RTENL sites did so, as a backup feed.

So they'll have nothing to relay come Oct 24.

Anyway, while both analogue and Saorview have coverage holes, they won't be in the same places. Existing self-helps will in some cases be redundant, while other areas which had some sort of analogue reception will be hanging off the edge of the digital cliff. Given that Saorsat exists, the cost/benefit for a self-help scheme isn't as good as it might otherwise be. By far the easiest solution is going to be just rebroadcast the DTT multiplex(es) in DTT, so the viewers of any future self-help schemes are going to have to have DTT receivers anyway.

eh2010 · 09-06-2012 02:29PM

larchill wrote: »

@ least the new location (bottom right) is somewhat less obtrusive than the previous location!

Where was the previous location?

The Cush · 09-06-2012 06:26PM

eh2010 wrote: »

Where was the previous location?

See the pics on page 33, post #490.

Antenna · 11-06-2012 09:02AM

zilog_jones wrote: »

I hear the DOGs are not present on UPC analogue cable in Limerick - they must be using some other digital feed for the terrestrial channels now.

I bet there is no longer NICAM (for stereo sound) on the Irish channels on it now? (if it was there previously). Modulators with Nicam are very expensive.

They are probably simply using Saorview boxes for RTE1,TV3,TG4, and a UPC box for RTE2 to modulate analogue cable (otherwise there would be the HD dog, and no WST teletext on RTE2 on analog cable there if Saorview was the source for it)

Sponge Bob · 11-06-2012 11:42AM

Some self help schemes and communal aerials downfeeding analogue TV are ultimately fed by Sky Digiboxes and therefore there is no DOG.

RTÉNL Saorview-DTT Public Information

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