RTÉNL Saorview-DTT Public Information

dowtchaboy

In all fairness it was good that they said a few things clearly - it won't affect people who already pay for it, most existing aerials are OK, don't believe the chancers who call at the door etc.

Yeah Mooney is not very technologically aware but neither is his audience.

I looked at the new goingdigital.ie site - useful enough but in their links they don't give the best one of all - boards.ie!

PauloMN

dowtchaboy wrote: »

In all fairness it was good that they said a few things clearly - it won't affect people who already pay for it, most existing aerials are OK, don't believe the chancers who call at the door etc.

Yeah Mooney is not very technologically aware but neither is his audience.

I looked at the new goingdigital.ie site - useful enough but in their links they don't give the best one of all - boards.ie!

I think not mentioning combo-boxes at all is very poor. Lots of people do not know that they could have one neat box with Irish and British terrestrials completely free of any sub, and this point was completely missing from today's programme.

The woman who had RTE analogue well from her set top aerial asked about the "€200 install" (rooftop aerial and box) wasn't informed that maybe as her analogue signal was so good, she might not need a rooftop aerial. Instead, "technical" guy just says "yeah, €200 sounds about right". :rolleyes:

Also another guy called in (admittedly I didn't fully hear his question) who I think was asking about recording options i.e. a Sky+ equivalent for Saorview. He was told that there was essentially nothing available for what he wanted. "Thanks" he says, and it's left at that. Very poor from the "technical" guy.

Mooney is cringeworthy at the best of times, but throw Byrne and a Saorview specialist who only seems to know about plain Saorview boxes into the mix and it becomes a disaster.

As for that site, I don't think much of it. Should be a lot clearer. Current viewers can be classified into a number of groups - those with Sky/cable, those with terrestrial only setups, those using a combination of analogue (or digital) terrestrial with digital free satellite etc.. Allow users to choose their existing setup from a simple menu and based on that, make clear recommendations. I don't think that site meets requirements.

Elmo

There was no saorview rep on mooney.

The spokesperson was from the dept of communications and goingdigital.ie

Macy0161

PauloMN wrote: »

I think not mentioning combo-boxes at all is very poor. Lots of people do not know that they could have one neat box with Irish and British terrestrials completely free of any sub, and this point was completely missing from today's programme.

Should they be recommending a non certified receiver type? I'd have thought they'd be on dodgy ground whilst there's no certified combo or pvr.

PauloMN

Macy0161 wrote: »

Should they be recommending a non certified receiver type? I'd have thought they'd be on dodgy ground whilst there's no certified combo or pvr.

Yes I see your point, but to launch Saorview in a country that has a huge base of viewers wanting British terrestrial channels without approved combo-boxes is nuts. Why is there no Saorview approved combo-box or pvr for the launch? What will happen is people will buy the basic boxes, then realise they want Freesat and/or pvr on it and end up having to buy another box.

Elmo

PauloMN wrote: »

Yes I see your point, but to launch Saorview in a country that has a huge base of viewers wanting British terrestrial channels without approved combo-boxes is nuts. Why is there no Saorview approved combo-box or pvr for the launch? What will happen is people will buy the basic boxes, then realise they want Freesat and/or pvr on it and end up having to buy another box.

There is a huge base of viewers that Have Analogue RTÉ NL coupled with Free To Air Digital Satellite they are the people you are talking about.

Macy0161

PauloMN wrote: »

Yes I see your point, but to launch Saorview in a country that has a huge base of viewers wanting British terrestrial channels without approved combo-boxes is nuts. Why is there no Saorview approved combo-box or pvr for the launch? What will happen is people will buy the basic boxes, then realise they want Freesat and/or pvr on it and end up having to buy another box.

Apart from reducing the cost of certification, I'm not sure what they could've done? But it's not like there's lots of combo's that meet the spec but aren't certified.

I have a combo, and I believe (like most on here I'd expect) that FTA Satellite is the forgotten option by most commentators in this state. However, I'm more concerned about the official campaign giving potentially misinformation about aerial upgrades and the like, than tying themselves up in knots with products that may or may not be available in the future.

They should of course be aware of the cohort that have FTA satellite and at least be able to address that. Even if it is saying that as things stand, you need a saorview TV or STB and your FTA receiver.

watty

There are ZERO combos that do full "Freesat HD" (only certified Freesat boxes work 100% properly with Interactive, streams, no retuning etc) and Saorview properly. Certified or not, PVR or not.

The 99.9% market for Freesat in the UK is people that can't get Freeview. Hence the decent PVRs are Freeview HD (which sort of work on Saorview) or Freesat HD. But not both.

glimmerman123

Gay Byrne is going to be on four live today. I don't know if he is going to be talking about the digital switch over but the presenter said he will be talking about tv. Just thought i'd mention it.

chasm

glimmerman123 wrote: »

Gay Byrne is going to be on four live today. I don't know if he is going to be talking about the digital switch over but the presenter said he will be talking about tv. Just thought i'd mention it.

I just watched four live and i have to say i am not impressed with their discussion on saorview at all. I'm no expert on saorview, (before i bought my last tv i was in this section of boards A LOT ) but i feel that a lot of older people or non technically minded people are going to be under the impression that they will have to by a set top box regardless of their tv. I personally thought they could have covered the subject a lot better.

I don't think their info on the rte four live webpage is much better either.
http://www.rte.ie/tv/fourlive/2011/1026/saorview162.html

glimmerman123

chasm wrote: »

I just watched four live and i have to say i am not impressed with their discussion on saorview at all. I'm no expert on saorview, (before i bought my last tv i was in this section of boards A LOT ) but i feel that a lot of older people or non technically minded people are going to be under the impression that they will have to by a set top box regardless of their tv. I personally thought they could have covered the subject a lot better.

I don't think their info on the rte four live webpage is much better either.
http://www.rte.ie/tv/fourlive/2011/1026/saorview162.html

I just don't think enough time was given to explain the techy side of things and if anything it has left non techy people especially the older generation confused.

Sam Russell

Macy0161 wrote: »

Apart from reducing the cost of certification, I'm not sure what they could've done? But it's not like there's lots of combo's that meet the spec but aren't certified.

I have a combo, and I believe (like most on here I'd expect) that FTA Satellite is the forgotten option by most commentators in this state. However, I'm more concerned about the official campaign giving potentially misinformation about aerial upgrades and the like, than tying themselves up in knots with products that may or may not be available in the future.

They should of course be aware of the cohort that have FTA satellite and at least be able to address that. Even if it is saying that as things stand, you need a saorview TV or STB and your FTA receiver.

I think that they should have started in 2008, when they started broadcasting what became Saorview, having the industry/retalers start labelling their TVs as Watty suggested -
A. Is it MPEG 4 Y or N
B. MHEG 5 Y or N
C. DVB T1 or DVB T2 etc.
D. Saorview Certified Y or N

That would have been a start.

Second, they could have levels of certification that would allow a lower cost of certification for products that would be 'Irish Digital TV Ready', that is a basic level of compatibility that would only receive the TV programme, without all the bells and whistles.

Essentially, if the Social Welfare wanted to supply a low cost box to people of limited means, it could source, or find someone to source, a very low cost basic box that would be cheap enough to allow then to give/sell it to those who would qualify. They could not afford to do this with a full function box, and they cannot do it without a form of certification. They are caught whichever way they go, unless they ignore the problem.

I guess we can see which way they will go.

jamescc

i think that more throught is going in to the referendum, they can explain that right.

watty

Sam Russell wrote: »

Essentially, if the Social Welfare wanted to supply a low cost box to people of limited means, it could source, or find someone to source, a very low cost basic box that would be cheap enough to allow then to give/sell it to those who would qualify. They could not afford to do this with a full function box, and they cannot do it without a form of certification. They are caught whichever way they go, unless they ignore the problem.

I guess we can see which way they will go.

A €49.95 certified box is maybe €30 to €40 in bulk next spring.

Multiply that by number eligible and it's not a lot of money. The Government can't fund partially capable uncertified boxes. That would be like saying to medical card holders that you can only see a Nurse.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

A €49.95 certified box is maybe €30 to €40 in bulk next spring.

Multiply that by number eligible and it's not a lot of money. The Government can't fund partially capable uncertified boxes. That would be like saying to medical card holders that you can only see a Nurse.

That is the point I was making. However, if they had a lesser system of certification, they could say: 'you can have an Irish Digital Ready box for €20 or a full box for €49. If you go with the lesser one, we will subsidize it so it costs €10.'

However, I think that would not work for the reason stated. Look what happened to the cheese they offered.

The Cush

Just got around to listening to the ASO discussion on the Mooney Show (on the RTÉ Player) with Gay Byrne and Enda Gallagher of the Dept of Communications press office.

Overall I found the discussion to be very good and informative especially the information provided by Enda Gallagher, of course there was some inaccuracies and that to be expected on a live show when discussing the technicalities of TV reception and the switchover.

The questions from the listeners and answers from the panel demonstrates how difficult it will be over the next 12 months to explain this to the general "non-technical" public.

The question from the B&B owner with the 8? or 16? analogue TVs is an interesting one in relation to the cost of upgrade, possible theft of STBs etc. Very little official information on this for the hospitality sector except this page from the Saorview website.

Enda Gallagher appears to be the Dept's media person for the Going Digital campaign, he was on the Shaun Doherty Show on Highland Radio on Monday.

Edit: Gay Byrne & Enda Gallagher on Four Live

Again I thought it was a good basic discussion on Saorview including the "how to connect" it up demonstration. For us here it's very basic stuff but for someone who's never seen a Saorview box or channels it was a good demo. I thought Enda Gallagher wanted to say more but didn't get the chance.

I think RTÉ, TV3 etc. in conjunction with the Dept should put together 5 or 10 min short videos with information on receivers, aerials, how to etc. that could be inserted into the programme schedule to inform viewers over the 12 months.

sesswhat

Things are improving as you say, but you have to wonder why someone with wider practical knowledge is not made available. If it was a gardening feature, you would expect them to have someone who had at least got their hands dirty.

Enda Gallagher has obviously studied the literature but freely admits that his experience is limited. He said he has cable himself but has "tried a Saorview box, and it does work".

When the questions get tricky, Enda hesitates and that is all the encouragement Gay or the presenters need to jump in with their own guesswork.

Elmo

Sorry lads I am living in a parallel universe.

Why is Gay Bryne going into RTÉ on this subject? What a waste of money. Other then to give out to Mooney for Mooney's Money pity he didn't get the chance to do the same on Four Live.

No mention of the Radio Stations.

Some help videos from Saorview
http://www.saorview.ie/help/help-videos/

The Dept and this campaign cannot discriminate against Sky and UPC :rolleyes:

The money spent on this campaign could have been used to develop both the IFB Channel and Oireachtas TV (maybe even Community TV). Failing that they could have spend the money bulk buying STBs for the small part of the population without digital TV.

Together under instruction from the regulators ComReg and BAI the stakeholders (RTÉ, TV3, TG4, IFB Channel, OTV, Community TV, Sky, UPC, Cable companies around the country, Setanta, UTV, Communicorp etc) should have launch a Digital campaign together with no cost to the tax payer. Free items on Daytime TV involving TV installers. Clear on screen announcements about Digital TV on all Irish channels.

Sam Russell

Exactly Elmo.

Why are they not putting on screen messages to say :

1. What transmitter this TV is tuned to -

2. Whether this transmitter is broadcasting DTT and what channels are used -

3. If a new aerial is needed or a new direction to receive DTT.

It has nothing to do with Sky or UPC as they are unaffected. It only affects RTE, TV3 and TG4. No-one else.

All of those have magazine type programmes on radio (wrt RTE) and TV. It would cost nothing to have items discussing it, if they could find someone who understands it. RTE NL could co-ordinate onscreen messages to help people. I]See the on-screen message - if you are affected it is RED, otherwise it is GREEN[/I

We have the technology - only we do not know how it works!

Macy0161

First thing Byrne's going to be asked about for the next few weeks if he's on anything to promote ASO is now going to be about RTE salaries. Well done Gaybo :rolleyes:

The Cush

From the Saorview website today

SAORVIEW’s GALWAY PUBLIC INFORMATION SESSION

SAORVIEW will be hosting an informal Public Information Session on Tuesday 29th November from 1pm to 4pm in the Veranda Lounge at the Radisson Blu Hotel, Atalia Road, Galway City which will be open to the public.

Members of the SAORVIEW team will be available to demonstrate the service, show how it’s set-up and to answer any questions people might have.

We would be delighted to meet you and answer any questions you might have about SAORVIE W or the switch off of analogue television.

http://www.saorview.ie/news/saorviews-galway-public-information-session/

Apogee

RTÉNL testing a spruced up website:

http://rtenltest.com/

The Cush

From cnbcwatcher over in DS.

A Tuam Hearld article on the Galway Saorview event happening next Tuesday

You have 11 months to make sure you can still watch TV at home

TELEVISION broadcasting in Ireland is changing from analogue to digital transmission. What does this mean for the millions of people who watch television in Ireland on a daily basis?

By October 24, 2012 the way that some of us receive television signals will have to change. If you use an aerial to receive your television signal you are most likely reliant on what is called an analogue signal.

Like the rest of Europe, North America and many other countries, television broadcasting in Ireland is switching from analogue to digital transmission. The EU requires that by the end of 2012 all countries across Europe must be switched over to digital transmission. SAORVIEW is Ireland’s digital free-to-air television service that will replace the analogue system which has been in operation since 1962 and will be switched off by October 24, 2012.

...

The SAORVIEW Roadshow will be holding a series of workshops for local retailers and businesses next week. Members of the public can explore the new service and ask questions at Radisson Blu Hotel on Tuesday November 29 from 1 to 4 pm. All welcome.

We are all very much looking forward to meeting Galway local people to showcase the new service and address any queries they might have. The SAORVIEW service is great and once people are comfortable about how best to make the switch, they can begin to access all of its benefits.

— Mary Curtis, Director of Digital Switchover, SAORVIEW

http://www.tuamherald.ie/2011/11/23/you-have-11-months-to-make-sure-you-can-still-watch-tv-at-home/

The Cush

Discussion with Mary Curtis about Saorview and ASO this morning

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/countrywide/

ftakeith

The Cush wrote: »

Discussion with Mary Curtis about Saorview and ASO this morning

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/countrywide/

country people are the ones the public campaign should be helping out like digital uk did for their public campaigns

The Cush

Apogee wrote: »

RTÉNL testing a spruced up website:

http://rtenltest.com/

The home page now has an ASO countdown clock with the following banner "Ireland’s National Aerial TV Network is switching off in..".

As Saorview also requires an aerial I guess this will be changed before launch to "Ireland’s National Analogue TV Network is switching off in..".

byrnefm

I noticed that on that page just below the countdown timer, that "In spring 2011, RTÉ will launch a new national free-to-air digital television service, named SAORVIEW." Can't wait

ANSI

watty wrote: »

You wouldn't suggest that if you have seen the characters. No-one would want to be associated with that Fat dog and skinny cat. ?

Tommy and Pj are a dog and cat? Very sharp indeed Tommy

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

Rev 4 of the Saorview FAQ now up

http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/RTÉNL-SAORVIEW-FAQs-Sept-2011-Rev-4.0.pdf

Rev 6 of the Saorview FAQ now up (rev 5 didn't make a public appearence that I know of)

http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/RTÉNL-SAORVIEW-FAQs-Jan-2012-Rev-6.0.pdf

zg3409

The TV ads seem to tell people something is happening. Most people that I have spoke with have no real idea what exactly.

I agree it would be ideal if EVERY/most ad breaks on analogue transmitters carried a personalised message. Either:

You should be able to get saorview, buy a box now.

or

You may not be able to get Saorview, retune, try a saorview box, your aerial may need adjusting/replacement.

This is most important for people on the small fill-in transmitters. It is these that will have most cost/issues.

It would be ideal if the ads included a video showing coverage in that part of the country. Everyone on analogue should be encouraged to try a box now, and see what happens.

Linking to a website is no good for the 90% of people that will get confused and have issues.

I think proper ads, designed by engineers, and say advice from elderly groups, would be better than vague chats. I have heard RTE staff on air get confused what is happening. If they don't educate employees of RTE then what hope has anyone else.

Personalised info would be much better. I got an insert with my TV licence, that explained very little.

PS rtenltest.com is now looking for a password