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A WHOPPING 46% Of Americans Believe In Creationism According To New Gallup Poll

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Comments

  • #62
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Plenty of evidence of what? The non existence of an external influence on the universe, particularly it's creation? As for "before" the big bang all we have is hypotheses and imaginings.

    Er, no, the Big Bang itself, as stated by the poster I quoted.


  • #63
    IrishAm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭IrishAm


    flutterflye wrote: »
    I'd quite like that actually.

    That would be quite cool, now that I think of it. I am an American citizen, but Id stick around and keep you company. I am sure a few boozers would still have some stock left hanging about.

    :)


  • #64
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Pushtrak wrote: »
    Any speculation about what other universes would be like if they existed is futile. It would be way above our pay grade. Maybe even anyone who is alive today.

    If you take for our own universe, general/special relativity which applies on the large scale in the universe, the galaxies. That doesn't apply to the small scale, the atoms. That's where quantum physics comes in. And then string theory. And trying to unify all the forces in to one theory. And that'd be our universe. It's safe to say there is enough to try to wrap our heads around with that much, and then say, the question: Are there multiverses and not, if there are how would they work.

    :confused:

    Multiverse theory comes out of quantum theory, you cant ignore it in the quest to find out about our universe.


  • #65
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    IrishAm wrote: »
    That would be quite cool, now that I think of it. I am an American citizen, but Id stick around and keep you company. I am sure a few boozers would still have some stock left hanging about.

    :)

    You could live on beer, and tinned food for life. The milk would go sour though, so you'd have to learn to milk a cow.


  • #66
    IrishAm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭IrishAm


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Er, no, the Big Bang itself, as stated by the poster I quoted.

    You know religion is fucked when a junkie beats a bible thumper in a debate.



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  • #67
    Pushtrak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,640 ✭✭✭Pushtrak


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    :confused:

    Multiverse theory come out of quantum theory, you cant ignore it in the quest to find out about our universe.
    For the purpose of the discussion, we don't exactly have a solid basis for discussion. Interesting hypothetical, but we don't really have much in the way of scientific data to discuss in terms of what other universes could be like. Or am I mistaken?


  • #68
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    flutterflye wrote: »
    What poll?
    Where?

    No chance I'd ever live in the U.S. unless for some reason it was absolutely necessary.

    Me either - i'd like to visit alright, but live there? No, not a chance!!
    IrishAm wrote: »
    Hahaha!

    If America completely opened its borders to Irish citizens and offered them the same benefits as they are entitled to here, Ireland would be empty in a month.

    I think you'll find there are a lot of people who wouldn't have any interest in living in america - i know quite a few, even a good few who have lived there and couldn't take to the place at all.
    Pushtrak wrote: »
    Any speculation about what other universes would be like if they existed is futile. It would be way above our pay grade. Maybe even anyone who is alive today.
    .

    Possibly, but if there is a universe somewhere, where i get regular kinky sex off kate winslett - i want to know about it. (apart from the one in my head that is!!)


  • #69
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    sbsquarepants wrote: »

    Possibly, but if there is a universe somewhere, where i get regular kinky sex off kate winslett - i want to know about it. (apart from the one in my head that is!!)

    There is a universe where a slightly overweight, poor, McDonald's working Kate Winslet is hoping to get off with international superstar sbsquarepants


  • #70
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    The poll, the article and the OP are all flawed.

    Creationism does not instantly mean Young Earth Creationism.

    Two very different things.


  • #71
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    I believe that the Young Earth Creationist position is mistaken. I do believe that God created all things. There's a huge segment of Christians who would hold to much the same thing.

    The Genesis passages from chapters 1 - 2 in the Hebrew text show that it is written in a poetic style. One of the unfortunate things about translation is that some of that is lost in the English. In these posts URL="http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78454413&postcount=116"]1[/URL URL="http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78457196&postcount=128"]2[/URL you'll find more of my argument for regarding it in a poetic style.

    For all the people arguing though that Young Earth Creationists are idiots and so on, I wonder how many people have met them in person. From personal experience, although I strongly disagree with them, the last thing I would call the YECs that I know would be idiots. Calling people idiots actually doesn't make things better anyway. From my personal point of view, the best thing is to attempt to show with the utmost respect and love how Biblical Christianity needn't jettison modern science.


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  • #72
    CL7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 684 ✭✭✭CL7


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    The poll, the article and the OP are all flawed.

    Creationism does not instantly mean Young Earth Creationism.

    Two very different things.

    Logical Fallacy Strikes!!!!


    /thread over


  • #73
    paddyandy
    Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭paddyandy


    The book of Genesis is not a simple book . It's Layered and Oblique and very subtle .The Net is very adequate to facilitate the serious minded . I am not .


  • #74
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,310 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Nothingbetter2d wrote: »
    how many of those still think Jesus will return to Jerusalem?
    How many believe that their Jesus was white?
    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    The multiverse could/must contain a God somewhere
    I am a god. Only human believe gods live forever, probably as they fear death.

    Silly humans.

    But yes, as I'm the all knowing god, you should believe me when I tell you I'm the only one, and there's no other gods.
    dyl10 wrote: »
    as well as undermining democracy and countless other attributes we value.
    I assume from this that you don't want them to intervene in Syria?


  • #75
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,310 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    philologos wrote: »
    From personal experience, although I strongly disagree with them, the last thing I would call the YECs that I know would be idiots.
    I think I met two. They were unable to answer where dinosaurs came from, or when they existed.


  • #76
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,591 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    many Muslims believe in creationism too, as do other relligions

    most differ on the exact moment of creation Sunday, October 23, 4004 BC, but did it start at 6pm the previous evening ?


  • #77
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    the_syco wrote: »
    How many believe that their Jesus was white?

    Me! Me! I believe that!!


  • #78
    RobbingBandit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,669 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    What percentage of Ireland believe in the St. Patrick stories.


  • #79
    Paddy Samurai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,015 ✭✭✭Paddy Samurai


    Since god is all powerful , he could have created evolution in the blink of a eye. ;)


  • #80
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    philologos wrote: »
    For all the people arguing though that Young Earth Creationists are idiots and so on, I wonder how many people have met them in person. From personal experience, although I strongly disagree with them, the last thing I would call the YECs that I know would be idiots. Calling people idiots actually doesn't make things better anyway. From my personal point of view, the best thing is to attempt to show with the utmost respect and love how Biblical Christianity needn't jettison modern science.

    It's ok to call a spade a spade, or in this case a YEC an idiot.

    Or perhaps they're just being poetic?


  • #81
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    RobbingBandit wrote: »
    What percentage of Ireland believe in the St. Patrick stories.

    Me!


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  • #82
    Einhard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭Einhard


    A whopping % of Americans are seriously dumb.


  • #83
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,369 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    philologos wrote: »
    I do believe that God created all things. There's a huge segment of Christians who would hold to much the same thing.

    So you keep telling us in your nice little argumentum ad populum way. However whenever you are asked to explain why you believe this you tend to run away very fast indeed.

    On the subject of the thread however the Pew and Gallup polls rarely make heartening reading on this subject and the Creationism numbers are always very significant. Sam Harris in his book where he wrote about many of these statistics can list for you some of the more depressing ones himself.


  • #84
    Ciaran0
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 213 ✭✭Ciaran0


    Einhard wrote: »
    A whopping % of Americans are seriously dumb.

    I prefer to think that a whopping % of Americans are undereducated, rather then plain stupid. It gives me more hope that in the future things could change.


  • #85
    Ellis Dee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,510 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    philologos wrote: »
    ---

    The Genesis passages from chapters 1 - 2 in the Hebrew text show that it is written in a poetic style. One of the unfortunate things about translation is that some of that is lost in the English.

    It doesn't matter what style it was written in, or how much has been lost - or added - in translation.:rolleyes: The bible is a book, just like the Lord of the Rings or a million other titles. No one can know how much of it is founded on fact, actual events, how much is derived from oral stories passed down and much embellished and garbled in the course of centuries or millennia, how much is the fruit of over-active imaginations and attempts to explain - using the limited knowledge and technological understanding of the time - all sorts of things that could not be explained in any rational way within the framework of the scientific understanding that people then possessed. And, of course, politics and propaganda and censorship and selective presentation and interpretation of facts have played a big role as well.:)

    By all means, if that's what gets you off, believe that it is a message from some sort of creator, but you could say the same, with equal validity, about the Beano for that matter.:D

    As Nietzsche famously said. "A casual stroll through a lunatic asylum shows that faith proves absolutely nothing.":cool:

    And on the subject of creationism and how many Americans believe in it, if I recall correctly, a very significant proportion of the total population in that benighted country firmly believe that they have at some time been abducted by aliens!:rolleyes:


  • #86
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,369 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    Ciaran0 wrote: »
    I prefer to think that a whopping % of Americans are undereducated, rather then plain stupid. It gives me more hope that in the future things could change.

    Unfortunately in many cases it is neither. The propganda war against Evolution is often based on Arguments from Emotion and alas emotion can override the intellect of even the most rational and intelligent people, let alone the "average joe" on the street.

    Pictures like this one here show just the kind of war being waged. Evolution in such all too common pictures is shown as the foundation for everything from Homosexuality and marital break down to Racism and Abortion. While Creationism flying the "good flag" of Christianity is shown as the pure forces of good in opposition.

    If you can make a religious public believe Evolution is the foundation of such societal ills (or perceived ills) then no amount of evidence and rationality is going to push acceptance of it past the barriers such people will erect around their critical faculties.

    It is perfectly possible to be a theist and accept Evolution. Kenneth Miller is the poster boy of that fact... a Champion of Evolution and a devout catholic. However the general public over there have been convinced it is an either or choice and given that choice very many of them will choose their religion over a single science theory.

    The creationists such as those furtively working away in the "discovery institute" clearly have no facts or evidence on their side. One has to be in some awe of their propaganda machine though. Their "teach the controversy" approach for example was a work of some genius.


  • #87
    jmayo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,226 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    ...
    And on the subject of creationism and how many Americans believe in it, if I recall correctly, a very significant proportion of the total population in that benighted country firmly believe that they have at some time been abducted by aliens!:rolleyes:

    That actually always made me wonder.
    Why was there more sightings, more abductions in the US ?
    Was it that aliens only bothered with countries in the New World ?
    But then how come Aussies, Kiwis, Brazilians, etc were not being abducted ?

    Then I watched Independence Day and finally all the pieces fitted together. :D

    Actually abductions are probably down over the last decade due to fact alien spacecraft can no longer fit the increasing girth of the average American.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • #88
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    It always astounds me to read these metrics but every once in a while I come across ultrachurch types who just make you think 'wow'.

    The majority of people though who probably believe this are normal working people. I know a few people I work with who I could class as being faithful but never once had it brought up so I couldn't say whether they were creationists or not; and these aren't dumb people.

    I am beginning to postulate most of it simply has to do with strong church participation. within a mile of me, I know of 3 churches, and one being constructed. On my commute to the technical college, a dozen more on a 12 mile drive. Oh and that Charleston Southern University: where Jesus and Bachelors Degrees intertwine.

    And of the people I know who are church goers they're very serious about it. Not really even so much the system of beliefs (but that too) but they get that whole "this is OUR community" mindset. So they go - religiously. When you have those kind of influences in your early life and these are strong influences, I can see why it would be hard to shake. It's not quite the same in Catholicism where it's more about your relationship with Jesus or the Communion, and they feel like once they splash you at birth they just closed a sale and they feel like they don't have to keep trying anymore. Mind, thats only from my observations.

    Thing about it for me is even if you find out someone is a creationist theres really not much point in trying to argue it. case and point. So fortunately the subject rarely if ever arises.


  • #89
    Einhard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Ciaran0 wrote: »
    I prefer to think that a whopping % of Americans are undereducated, rather then plain stupid. It gives me more hope that in the future things could change.

    Good point.

    How about this then:

    A whopping % of Americans are under-enlightened. :cool:


  • #90
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Did someone mention that religious teachings (including creationism) should be allowed in schools?

    http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/3964/freedomofreligionforsch.jpg

    O' wait, we (the USA) must only allow the ones that the Vatican says is the right ones!

    http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/8369/093billywinshisfirstcre.jpg


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  • #91
    Einhard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Biggins wrote: »

    O' wait, we (the USA) must only allow the ones that the Vatican says is the right ones!

    http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/8369/093billywinshisfirstcre.jpg

    Actually, many of the religious right in America despise the Vatican. And AFAIK, the Vatican accepts Darwin's theories.


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