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rje66 · 15-05-2012 08:58PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

thanks rje66

i hadnt included a dead ball area in that 90 m, i actually had allowed 10 m but looking at that now it may be too generous.... possibly 5 is ok?

the spectators areas work ok...

whats the breaking point?
is less than 10 m between the 10 and the 22 not acceptable?

wouldnt see any problem with an area between 22 and 10m being around 10m or less.
If its junior rugby then def no problem with a small pitch, for adults still no problem, they might have a bit of a moan but will be glad to have somewhere to play.
certainly as a ref i wouldnt see any probs. once the area is safe, eg if dead ball is 3m then at 3.1m i wouldnt like to see a wall or drain etc

Rem its all about getting people out playing the game they love, a slightly smaller pitch shouldnt stop this, besides they will all think they are really fit:):)

Downtime · 17-05-2012 11:08AM

The in goal should not be less than 10m where practicable. 5m is very short.

armchaircoach · 17-05-2012 04:57PM

The IRB website has full details on required pitch dimensions.

5 meters is very short for a dead-ball area. That's the kind of thing you see in Premiership rugby (look at Bath) and guys come very close to sliding dead/running into hoardings every time a try is scored.

It also very much limits the tactics that an attacking team can use, for instance, it is almost impossible to grubber/chip the ball ahead into the dead-ball and have your guys chase for it.

Same applies to a pitch that is less than 70m wide, you end up constraining how your team trains and plays, and run the risk of other teams running rings around you when you have to play on a more spacious pitch that the team is not used to.

rje66 · 17-05-2012 07:50PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

im trying to design in an extra pitch onto a clubs ground... im playing with a 60 x 90 pitch currently

we are tight for space, so are you saying no pitch because the LOTG state some recommended dimensions ?

''if you build it they will come''

sydthebeat · 17-05-2012 08:20PM

rje66 wrote: »

we are tight for space, so are you saying no pitch because the LOTG state some recommended dimensions ?

''if you build it they will come''

its ok, no matter what way i locate them theres no way of getting a 3rd full size pitch in on the existing land.

the current pitches (2) are both 100 x 70 with 10 m dead ball areas.

Podge_irl · 17-05-2012 11:57PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

its ok, no matter what way i locate them theres no way of getting a 3rd full size pitch in on the existing land.

Try some non-Euclidean geometry!

castie · 18-05-2012 07:02AM

Common deadball zones...simplies

thomond2006 · 02-06-2012 06:19PM

Is there a law preventing a drop goal being scored from a restart kick?

Podge_irl · 02-06-2012 06:45PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is there a law preventing a drop goal being scored from a restart kick?

Yes, though I don't remember the specifics.

Shelflife · 02-06-2012 11:56PM

Team A are attacking and are camped on team Bs line under the posts.

the offside line is the the goal line.

Can team B position a man up against the goal post as in in front of the posts in order to prevent a try being scored by touching the bottom of the posts?

rje66 · 04-06-2012 08:14PM

in a word no, he is now in the field of play and not in in goal anymore.

pickarooney · 05-06-2012 08:50AM

Was Matanavou not hard done by here? He picks up a loose ball and gets carded for offside. Should he have run around the back of the tackled player and climbed back over to get the ball?

Shelflife · 05-06-2012 07:06PM

pickarooney wrote: »

Was Matanavou not hard done by here? He picks up a loose ball and gets carded for offside. Should he have run around the back of the tackled player and climbed back over to get the ball?

IMO yellow was a good call, he was never onside and the ball was on the try line.
If he wanted to play the ball he would have had to been behind the hind most foot.

castie · 06-06-2012 05:11AM

Shelflife wrote: »

IMO yellow was a good call, he was never onside and the ball was on the try line.
If he wanted to play the ball he would have had to been behind the hind most foot.

This is an interesting one.

In my opinion the player has been held up in his attempt to ground the ball in goal. He then throws it back into play.

Id of called a 5m scrum attacking team.
Ignoring this he would of been blatantly offside and stopped an almost certain try so yellow worthy.

pickarooney · 06-06-2012 09:48AM

If you stop it on 40 seconds, the ball is out of the ruck (if it's even a ruck beyond the try-line, I'm not sure about that?) The Castres full back has no control of the ball, which has slipped between his legs. The Toulouse defender tackles him and he attempts to play the ball on the ground. To me, it's either a loose ball, giving the Toulouse winger every right to play it or an infringement by the Castres 15 and ball to Toulouse.

Matanavou must feel like he can do nothing right in the in-goal after his disastrous clearance attempt a while back led to a try and now this.

daveharnett · 06-06-2012 12:16PM

pickarooney wrote: »

Was Matanavou not hard done by here? He picks up a loose ball and gets carded for offside. Should he have run around the back of the tackled player and climbed back over to get the ball?

IMO White 15 and Black 12 formed a ruck in the field of play. At that instant, any Black player who is in front of the ruck (ie ahead of the goal line in this case) is offside. The ruck ends before Black 11 arrives but that doesn't matter; he can't take any part in the game until he gets himself behind the goal (offside) line.

I wouldn't criticize without seeing a wider angle of how the other players are arriving, but based on the circumstances I'd be looking to see if I could award a PT. Any lesser punishment here is a let-off and rewards the offense. Black 12's angle of entry (re the gate) is also very suspect, but probably not a problem since he's entering through his goal area?

daveharnett · 06-06-2012 12:36PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is there a law preventing a drop goal being scored from a restart kick?

The definition of a dropped goal prevents it (emphasis mine):

Dropped Goal. A player scores a dropped goal by kicking a goal from a drop kick in general play. The team awarded a free kick cannot score a dropped goal until the ball next becomes dead, or until an opponent has played or touched it, or has tackled the ball carrier. This restriction applies also to a scrum taken instead of a free kick.

Since a restart is not a part of "general play", a dropped goal can't be scored.

pickarooney · 06-06-2012 01:30PM

15W and 12B aren't bound at any stage with the ball between them as far as I can see.

daveharnett · 06-06-2012 01:54PM

pickarooney wrote: »

15W and 12B aren't bound at any stage with the ball between them as far as I can see.

On the fourth or fifth replay, I've seen what you mean. The ball squirts loose between 15W's legs just before 12B makes contact with him.

It's an interesting example - given so much to process in such a short space of time, any number of things could be going through the ref's head. In the absence of a clear shout of "ruck, you're offside" or "no ruck, play on", it's hard to fault a player for grabbing the ball first and asking questions later.

Should the ref be stating his position here, or keeping quiet and letting the tmo sort it all out? (I know, in general the ref is correct by default, but this situation has tmo written all over it).

pickarooney · 06-06-2012 02:39PM

He went straight to the TMO, who advised him to give the penalty and yellow. It would be understandable if the ref made a split-second decision but the TMO should be making these calls correctly in high-profile matches.

Podge_irl · 06-06-2012 06:15PM

Unsure of the intricacies of the situation, but for my mind a ruck hasn't been formed there.

Absolutely cracking tackle from Clerc though.

Shelflife · 06-06-2012 10:02PM

But even if there is no ruck formed, the defending players would have to come through the gate or at least get behind the tackle line to put themselves onside??

Shelflife · 06-06-2012 10:03PM

But even if there is no ruck formed, the defending players would have to come through the gate or at least get behind the tackle line to put themselves onside??

castie · 07-06-2012 04:19AM

Shelflife wrote: »

But even if there is no ruck formed, the defending players would have to come through the gate or at least get behind the tackle line to put themselves onside??

If theres no ruck formed then there is no offside line.

I still stand by my comments that you cant just cross the line go to deck and not get it down so toss it back into the field of play.

Dave your thoughts on that part?

Shelflife · 07-06-2012 11:00AM

But if there is a tackle then that becomes the offside line and you must enter through the gate.

pickarooney · 07-06-2012 11:04AM

Shelflife wrote: »

But if there is a tackle then that becomes the offside line and you must enter through the gate.

Enter what though, if there's no ruck or maul there?

There should have been no option for him to take that ball in any case as Evans was held up.

22.10 BALL HELD UP IN-GOAL
When a player carrying the ball is held up in the in-goal so that the player cannot ground the ball, the ball is dead. A 5-metre scrum is formed.

Shelflife · 07-06-2012 02:06PM

When a player is tackled the arriving players who will subsequently form a ruck (usually) must enter through the gate ie: the length of the player who was tackled.

Podge_irl · 07-06-2012 03:20PM

But if a player is tackled and offloads the ball into the hands of a retreating defensive player that is not given as offside.

I'd be inclined to go with the fact it should have been a 5m scrum though regardless.

rje66 · 07-06-2012 09:56PM

But if there is a tackle then that becomes the offside line and you must enter through the gate.

lets forget about the ball for the moment, so assuming that both players are on the ground and in in goal then there is no offside line as a tackle can only take place in the field of play,( ie between try lines.)so no gate no offside line.
agree with others a 5m scrum would be a fair call, but then again we have seen slomo replays etc to form an opinion, ref had split second.
And it looked so wrong when b15 took ball to round the ball, even though it was technically legal.

Podge_irl · 07-06-2012 10:05PM

rje66 wrote: »

agree with others a 5m scrum would be a fair call, but then again we have seen slomo replays etc to form an opinion, ref had split second.

Except it was a TMO call.

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