Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

Madam · 30-05-2012 12:30PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

What are you talking about, 'like everyone else' ?

Did you forget Lennon fighting tooth and nail to get his punishment downsized ?

Or the fact that a court has now ruled that the punishment was neither light or fair ?

You don't think a fine and a years ban on hiring new players is lighter to what may happen ie, expulsion from Scottish football?

Jelle1880 · 30-05-2012 12:37PM

Madam wrote: »

You don't think a fine and a years ban on hiring new players is lighter to what may happen ie, expulsion from Scottish football?

Lighter yes, but that doesn't mean the punishment was correct.

PauloMN · 30-05-2012 12:40PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Glad I could help

But apparently Rangers should just accept any punishment, even when a court rules that they were punished wrongly ?

And I used Celtic and Lennon as an example because if there's one team that always try to fight any punishment received...

I personally think Rangers FC will end up being punished more severely now by fighting that transfer ban. I think it's a risk too big to have taken, and I think this is really the start of the ultimate demise of the club.

You cannot compare fighting a sideline ban with this Jelle, seriously. Every club fights a sideline bad if they think they have a case, and if the risk of getting an extended ban is small. Even if they eventually escape a further punishment (which I don't think they will), I think they've taken a massive risk in doing this. The SFA avoiding giving you a listed punishment was actually of benefit to you, now they could literally throw the book at you.

Pompey Magnus · 30-05-2012 01:26PM

Out of interest who exactly are Rangers planning on signing over the next 12 months that made yesterday worth the risk of harsher punishment and incurring the wrath of FIFA?

The club should have been more interested in maintaining the core of the current squad and bringing on some young players.

RoryMac · 30-05-2012 01:26PM

PauloMN wrote: »

now they could literally throw the book at you.

I'm not sure literally throwing a book at Rangers is sufficient punishment myself!

Jelle1880 · 30-05-2012 01:30PM

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Out of interest who exactly are Rangers planning on signing over the next 12 months that made yesterday worth the risk of harsher punishment and incurring the wrath of FIFA?

The club should have been more interested in maintaining the core of the current squad and bringing on some young players.

:pac:

May be unrealistic, but he already said he would love to come back and money is not an issue.

lubo_moravcik · 30-05-2012 03:18PM

bring him back

Eirebear · 30-05-2012 06:05PM

Madam wrote: »

You don't think a fine and a years ban on hiring new players is lighter to what may happen ie, expulsion from Scottish football?

Yeah expulsion.
The punishment which is mentioned in the findings as being "Too Harsh".

Do you really think it will stand up to appeal?

And by the way, as for Rangers not going through the proper channels, the SFA do not allow clubs within their rules, to go to CAS. Something which is stated by FIFA as obligatory for every member body.

So instead of blaming Rangers for not lying down, try taking a look at the morons who run our game.

lubo_moravcik · 31-05-2012 07:29AM

Eirebear wrote: »

Madam wrote: »

You don't think a fine and a years ban on hiring new players is lighter to what may happen ie, expulsion from Scottish football?

Yeah expulsion.
The punishment which is mentioned in the findings as being "Too Harsh".

Do you really think it will stand up to appeal?

And by the way, as for Rangers not going through the proper channels, the SFA do not allow clubs within their rules, to go to CAS. Something which is stated by FIFA as obligatory for every member body.

So instead of blaming Rangers for not lying down, try taking a look at the morons who run our game.

That's it, its everyone else's fault for the position Rangers are in!!!!! Try taking a look at the morons who brought your club to this point. SFA are a shower of ****wits for sure, but come on EB, the only people to blame for the current predicament yous are in are Rangers people.

_____________

Tom English: You need a brass neck for what Charles Green is attempting

Prospective Rangers owner Charles Green: Part of a flying circus at Ibrox. Picture: SNS

By TOM ENGLISH

Published on Thursday 31 May 2012 00:00

EVER see the Monty Python sketch about the four Yorkshiremen? You know the one where Michael Palin, Graham Chapman, Terry Gilliam and Eric Idle sit quaffing expensive Chateau de Chassilier wine while reflecting how well they’ve done in life after such humble beginnings, each one embellishing the poverty of their youth with ever more hilarious anecdotes?

Idle: “I was happier then and I had nothin’. We used to live in this tiiiny old house with greaaaat big holes in the roof.”

Chapman: “House? You were lucky to have a HOUSE! We used to live in one room, all hundred and twenty six of us…”

Gilliam: “You were lucky to have a ROOM! We used to live in a corridor!”

Palin: “Ohhhh we used to DREAM of livin’ in a corridor! Woulda’ been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip…”

The four Yorkshiremen is one of the great sketches in history and one that another Yorkshireman, Charles Green, would no doubt guffaw at if he had the time to look at it again which, of course, he doesn’t because he’s been too busy with a comedy routine of his own in the form of his proposal to buy Rangers and the CVA document the club’s administrators, Duff and Phelps, presented on his behalf on Tuesday. Green’s chutzpah would have sat well with the other four Yorkshiremen. For brass neck and sheer effrontery it is a remarkable document, the genius of which will surely be established for all-time if it manages to get past the many Rangers creditors in the coming weeks.

The odds of that happening? Well, it’s hard to know. Some experts say it will be accepted by the main creditors, Ticketus and HMRC, on the basis that they’ll get bugger all if they don’t accept it. Others say that HMRC, in particular, will either be appalled at the gall of the man or will laugh heartily at his brio, but whichever one it is they will still throw the proposal back at him. Green has a plan for all possibilities, though. He’s worked the angles, it seems. If the CVA goes through, he wins. If it’s liquidation and a newco, he still wins. If you’ve seen a three-card trick man at work, luring in the customers who feel sure they can ‘find the lady’ from three face-down playing cards on the table then you have seen a version of what Green is trying to perform at Ibrox. He’s a clever operator. He’s had seasoned financial observers scratching their heads in wonder at the audacity of what he’s trying to pull off.

Later in the week we might get a chance to quiz Duff and Phelps on all of this. They’ve been good that way. Helpful. Right from the start of the administration process they’ve been keen to chat at least once a week and, no doubt, they did so in attempt to influence the dynamic of the story, particularly when the Blue Knights were giving them a shellacking, but also because – and maybe this is me just being cynical – they were being paid a king’s ransom every time they opened their mouth. I would imagine since this process began I have had up to three hours on the phone with Duff and Phelps which, at their going rate, is going to cost the club somewhere between £1,440 and £1,635. Had I known the premium they placed on their own time I might have cut it short a bit.

You could do your own sketch on the CVA document alone.

“Charles Green has 20 investors?”

“Er, no, it’s five or six.”

“But he said he had 20.”

“He seems to have lost 14 or 15 of them since he said it.”

“They’re gone already before we even knew who they were?”

“That’s if they were ever there in the first place.”

“At least his backers are offering HMRC some money…”

“Which the club has to pay them back, with interest.”

“And they’re throwing Ticketus a few quid…”

“And they want that back, too. Apparently 8 per cent on top, thanks very much.”

“Duff and Phelps said his was the best deal for creditors…”

“The best deal for Charles Green more like. And for Duff and Phelps, of course. They’re getting every penny of their multi-million pound fee, which is about 91p in the pound more than the people whose corner they were supposed to be fighting.”

“But what about the creditors?”

“Who?”

“The £55, 415, 632 the club owes to all manner of different people?”

“Yeah, shame about that. There’s about £5m left for those guys.”

“That’s feeble. When are they going to be paid?”

“Sometime.”

“When?”

“Later.”

“So Duff and Phelps, the champions of the creditors, are getting almost as much as all the other creditors put together?”

“It’s business, baby. They might get more in any case.”

“Ah, right. If they sell a player some of the money goes to the creditors…”

“No. It goes to the club.”

“The TV money, then. They’ll hand some over to the poor saps they’re shafting…”

“No, it goes to the club. Nothing personal. They could get an extra £25m from a law suit against Collyer Bristow.”

“Could?”

“Maybe. Possibly. In theory.”

“When might they get it?”

“Whenever o’clock.”

“Well, the creditors can tell Green they’re not having his CVA…”

“Yes, they can. And so it’s liquidation-time and a newco and the stadium and the training ground and the Albion car park and all the rest of it that has a book value of more than £112m immediately becomes available for £5.5m”

“Result! To who?”

“Charles Green.”

“Ah.”

If you’re Charles Green or one of his financial backers or Duff and Phelps or a Rangers supporter then the CVA document is a piece of art to be hung on a wall. If you’re anybody else then it’s by turns a curiosity and an outrage. We won’t know until the middle of June if Green’s CVA is going to be accepted. Until then, the flying circus continues.

Eirebear · 31-05-2012 08:19AM

That's it, its everyone else's fault for the position Rangers are in!!!!! Try taking a look at the morons who brought your club to this point. SFA are a shower of ****wits for sure, but come on EB, the only people to blame for the current predicament yous are in are Rangers people.

Fifa quite clearly state.
2. Disputes of National Dimension
Obligation to Refer Disputes to Court of Arbitration
Article 60
Associations shall include in their statutes a provision under
which disputes of national dimension arising from or related to
the application of their statutes or regulations shall, subject to
their national legislation, be referred in the last instance to an
independent and impartial court of arbitration, to the exclusion of
any ordinary court.

The SFA don't allow for this.

Stewart Regan - "However, with regard to the timing of the suspension we must accept that if our rules cannot be enforced in a court of law then they cannot be imposed "
Official Celtic Statement - "it is vital that the SFA properly applies the rules that it imposes, whatever those happen to be. The SFA cannot operate above the law or its own rules."

While the above instances may not be comparable to the situation going on at Rangers (They are in relation to Lennon's nonsense last year) they quite clearly show the depths of feeling towards how the SFA deal with their rules and with their powers.
Celtic stood up to them last year.
Why is it that Rangers should just simply "Take their medicine" this year?

PauloMN · 31-05-2012 08:24AM

Eirebear wrote: »

Why is it that Rangers should just simply "Take their medicine" this year?

:eek:

For your own good, it would have been better to "take the medicine".

You've just opened the biggest can of worms in the world. Sometimes it's good to appeal, sometimes it's not. This is one of those times when it would have been best not to appeal.

Eirebear · 31-05-2012 08:33AM

PauloMN wrote: »

:eek:

For your own good, it would have been better to "take the medicine".

You've just opened the biggest can of worms in the world. Sometimes it's good to appeal, sometimes it's not. This is one of those times when it would have been best not to appeal.

Ah sure.

You're right of course.
If the SFA don't allow member clubs to go through the correct channel of appeal and as such give themselves opportunity to hand out punishments which are outwith their own remit then of course, Rangers should just lie down to that.

I can imagine this transfered to a court situation.
"I hereby sentence you to death for your heinous crimes!"
"But, you can't do that m'lud!"
"Ah but i can, as you have no right of appeal!"

PauloMN · 31-05-2012 08:40AM

Eirebear wrote: »

Ah sure.

You're right of course.
If the SFA don't allow member clubs to go through the correct channel of appeal and as such give themselves opportunity to hand out punishments which are outwith their own remit then of course, Rangers should just lie down to that.

I can imagine this transfered to a court situation.
"I hereby sentence you to death for your heinous crimes!"
"But, you can't do that m'lud!"
"Ah but i can, as you have no right of appeal!"

They (the SFA) were doing you a favour, believe it or not. Frankly, I couldn't give a fiddlers what Rangers FC choose to appeal or not appeal, so long as it doesn't affect Celtic. You have chosen to appeal, which, if I were in your shoes, I would not be happy about because it'll damage your club further in the long run. You are in a terrible situation, sometimes it's best to take the least damaging route out of trouble, even if you don't agree with how it's handled.

It's funny hearing Rangers fans bleating on about the rules though, when you played a whole season in the SPL without paying PAYE or NIC on behalf of your employees - and that's aside from the dual contracts/big tax case stuff. Every day I read the online papers and it's just another whole sideshow of two-facedness.

Eirebear · 31-05-2012 08:51AM

PauloMN wrote: »

It's funny hearing Rangers fans bleating on about the rules though, when you played a whole season in the SPL without paying PAYE or NIC on behalf of your employees - and that's aside from the dual contracts/big tax case stuff. Every day I read the online papers and it's just another whole sideshow of two-facedness.

Once again giving the SFA license to do exactly what they want, how they want and when they want to.

I love this idea that because rangers broke the rules, then the rules just don't exist anymore and they have no right to protect themselves.
They should roll that out in all walks of life, it would make things go a lot smoother for your average dictatorship.

As for "Going easy" on us - why do people keep spouting this as some sort of fact? The findings quite clearly stated that they felt expulsion/suspension was too harsh.
It certainly didnt give them right to go making up whatever punishment they felt like however.

bobbysands81 · 31-05-2012 09:27AM

Eirebear wrote: »

Ah sure.

You're right of course.
If the SFA don't allow member clubs to go through the correct channel of appeal and as such give themselves opportunity to hand out punishments which are outwith their own remit then of course, Rangers should just lie down to that.

I can imagine this transfered to a court situation.
"I hereby sentence you to death for your heinous crimes!"
"But, you can't do that m'lud!"
"Ah but i can, as you have no right of appeal!"

I actually agree with you here. You need to take your medicine but the crucial thing to me is that the SFA didn't have the statute in their rules to allow you fellas to go to CAS thereby suspending natural justice no matter how right or wrong you were.

However, I think you've stirred the hornet's nest and not only will you get a heavy sentence from FIFA (through the SFA - which will probably be the reinstatement of 12 month signing ban) but you've also dirtied your bib with all the other SPL clubs who are starting to show signs of having enough of this daily circus, remember that when you liquidate you're going to need a huge favour from these guys.

Eirebear · 31-05-2012 09:32AM

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I actually agree with you here. You need to take your medicine but the crucial thing to me is that the SFA didn't have the statute in their rules to allow you fellas to go to CAS thereby suspending natural justice no matter how right or wrong you were.

However, I think you've stirred the hornet's nest and not only will you get a heavy sentence from FIFA (through the SFA - which will probably be the reinstatement of 12 month signing ban) but you've also dirtied your bib with all the other SPL clubs who are starting to show signs of having enough of this daily circus, remember that when you liquidate you're going to need a huge favour from these guys.

What will be, will be in that sense and i'll leave those decisions up to the other clubs. As i;ve said before - a hell of a lot relies on the CVA, and if that doesnt work it will be interesting to see if those other clubs have the balls to relegate us.

bobbysands81 · 31-05-2012 09:32AM

In other news... Rangers player Sone Aluko is set to sign for Reading for £200,000. When questioned about why the transfer fee was so low Aluko said it's all he could afford!!!

Pompey Magnus · 31-05-2012 09:44AM

Eirebear wrote: »

As for "Going easy" on us - why do people keep spouting this as some sort of fact? The findings quite clearly stated that they felt expulsion/suspension was too harsh.

Lord Glennie said in his verdict that Rangers shouldn't expect a lighter punishment and given the limited punishments Rangers have left the SFA they now have to either give a disproportionate punishments, either too harsh or too light.

At any rate what can Rangers do if the Panel does decide that the most appropriate punishment now available to them is expulsion? It will be the Appeals Panel that makes the decision, not the Disciplinary Panel. Can Rangers appeal the Appeals Panel decision? They can't take it to CAS and they certainly can't take it to the Court of Sessions again because that would definitely rule against Rangers in that case as the punishment is actually available to the SFA this time.

Jelle1880 · 31-05-2012 09:47AM

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I actually agree with you here. You need to take your medicine but the crucial thing to me is that the SFA didn't have the statute in their rules to allow you fellas to go to CAS thereby suspending natural justice no matter how right or wrong you were.

However, I think you've stirred the hornet's nest and not only will you get a heavy sentence from FIFA (through the SFA - which will probably be the reinstatement of 12 month signing ban) but you've also dirtied your bib with all the other SPL clubs who are starting to show signs of having enough of this daily circus, remember that when you liquidate you're going to need a huge favour from these guys.

Me thinks that's been going on for as long as we have been beating them on a regular basis.

Only now they're showing how much they really dislike us.

I don't think this will change much to their views of Rangers.

As for FIFA punishing us: They'll talk about it in september apparently, I doubt it's high on the agenda.

Madam · 31-05-2012 10:33AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Only now they're showing how much they really dislike us.

Your not alone there, I'm almost sure 'they' dislike Celtic as much as your lot;)

Dempsey · 31-05-2012 10:50AM

D&P have earned £5.5m so far. How much are the creditors being offered again?!

Jelle1880 · 31-05-2012 11:06AM

Dempsey wrote: »

D&P have earned £5.5m so far. How much are the creditors being offered again?!

*sigh*

That amount contains both D&P's earnings (About 3,5m I think) + legal fees.
As has been said before.

Not to mention the fact that the creditors have to vote on that as well.

Dempsey · 31-05-2012 11:20AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

*sigh*

That amount contains both D&P's earnings (About 3,5m I think) + legal fees.
As has been said before.

Not to mention the fact that the creditors have to vote on that as well.

Yes, fees and charges if you want to be pedantic. Fact is, your administrators are costing you alot of money and you are deluding yourself if you think they'll be left out of pocket.

lubo_moravcik · 31-05-2012 12:12PM

Eirebear wrote: »

Fifa quite clearly state.
2. Disputes of National Dimension
Obligation to Refer Disputes to Court of Arbitration
Article 60
Associations shall include in their statutes a provision under
which disputes of national dimension arising from or related to
the application of their statutes or regulations shall, subject to
their national legislation, be referred in the last instance to an
independent and impartial court of arbitration, to the exclusion of
any ordinary court.

The SFA don't allow for this.

Stewart Regan - "However, with regard to the timing of the suspension we must accept that if our rules cannot be enforced in a court of law then they cannot be imposed "
Official Celtic Statement - "it is vital that the SFA properly applies the rules that it imposes, whatever those happen to be. The SFA cannot operate above the law or its own rules."

While the above instances may not be comparable to the situation going on at Rangers (They are in relation to Lennon's nonsense last year) they quite clearly show the depths of feeling towards how the SFA deal with their rules and with their powers.
Celtic stood up to them last year.
Why is it that Rangers should just simply "Take their medicine" this year?

Am not disputing the role of the SFA, and you're quite right to stand up to them.
What I am saying is they never got you into the current position you are in. If you never ended up in the sh!t as you have done, then it would never have needed to come to this where transfer embargos and court appearances are now happening. We can only point the finger so many times before the common denominator becomes us. We done it with Lenny last year, there's only so much he can do before it becomes more obvious that he has to reel it in a bit too and take some accountability for his actions. The SFA were out of order with their bans and thankfully they were overturned, but he knew himself if couldn't go on as it was and the apology he made to Euan Murray at the end of the season showed that he accepted his own part in what was going on.

Have Rangers done that???? Every time we point a finger there are three pointing back at us.

Dempsey · 01-06-2012 11:13AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18294684

Football's governing body, Fifa, has confirmed to BBC Scotland it has been in contact with the Scottish FA regarding Rangers.

A spokesperson said letters and phone calls have been exchanged, and that its legal teams will continue to talk and look further into the situation.

The Ibrox club had a 12-month transfer embargo imposed by the SFA overturned by the Court of Session.

However, football rules bar clubs using civil courts over football decisions.

Fifa has already intimated its unhappiness with Rangers taking their dispute with the SFA to a civil court .

Prior to the court's decision, a Fifa statement said: "Fifa will ask the member association (SFA) to take action so that the club withdraws its request from the ordinary courts.

"Fifa will closely monitor the situation so that the issue is resolved as fast as possible."

FIFA could issue an ultimatum over this yet

Jelle1880 · 01-06-2012 04:26PM

How brilliant of them, making a statement where they ask the SFA to stop Rangers from doing this AFTER the court already ruled.

Dempsey · 01-06-2012 04:40PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

How brilliant of them, making a statement where they ask the SFA to stop Rangers from doing this AFTER the court already ruled.

It clearly says that they asked the SFA before the ruling

jack presley · 01-06-2012 04:42PM

Dempsey wrote: »

It clearly says that they asked the SFA before the ruling

But did they ask before Rangers initiated the case?

Dempsey · 01-06-2012 04:45PM

jack presley wrote: »

But did they ask before Rangers initiated the case?

The article says that they were asked to withdraw their case.

Savage Tyrant · 01-06-2012 09:50PM

It's a few days old now, but I've just read this on CQN regarding the appeal on the transfer ban.
Fantastic!

CQN wrote:

rangers, not content with having defrauded the taxpayer, wrecked havoc on the national game, corrupted the institutions in charge of it and terrorised those who would hold them to account, are now on the cusp of bringing down the wrath of FIFA on us all.

Celebrate that, if you want. To me, you've won a lucky hand of poker and wound up with a third class ticket on The Titanic. (You remember how it ends, right? Freezing to death on a door in the middle of the Atlantic...)

Accepting your punishment would have seen you end this thing with some dignity, some measure of acceptance for your sins. To actually be seeking to overturn a signing ban when you're telling creditors, including the Ambulance Service, charities, the police and the very football clubs you need to vote your Frankenstein's Monster club back into the SPL, that you don't have a pot to piss in shows a brass neck which really is breathtaking.

You used to call Celtic "the beggars." I love the new look rangers, with it's own grubby hands outstretched, asking for charity, for favours, for leniency, for a wee hand covering the leccy bill. I like you guys ripped of "dignity", of class. It formalises what we've always suspected; that underneath that veneer of smugness and superiority was a club of shifty eyed villains and criminal crackpots, determined, at all costs, to maintain power. Like those Eastern European dictatorships of old, the time is coming when those outside your walls will be clambering over them, and your club will be helpless before the angry mob.

Tell me how it feels to be a rangers fan right now. Tell me about the sense of pride which comes from rattling the tin cup. Tell me good it feels to be on your knees. Explain to me the emotions as you lurch from one disaster to another, like a drunk on a Saturday night who has lost his wallet, dropped his keys, been sick on his suit jacket and crapped in his pants. Doesn't do a lot for the impression of dignity, does it?

How does it feel to be so unloved that your saviours are self admittedly out to scalp you for the remainder of what you are worth? Tell me how the Greatest Club in The World can have been sold for a quid twice now in a year? What does that do to your self respect?

The best you can hope for now is a slow death, as we waltz into the distance. You realise that these events have made Neil Lennon a virtual shoe-in for the status of Legend, right? You do get that your collapse will dovetail perfectly with his ascendancy, as he becomes the most successful manager in this nation since Stein? Is that much clear to you? Oh I think you're going to enjoy years of penury and suffering, as we enjoy the same period dressed for success.

I am glad you guys don't do walking away. I want to see The Reichstag filled every second week. I want to see you all huddled there en masse, watching as your side is relegated to the status of a Motherwell or Hibs. I want to see the banners proclaiming "Green Out", and to hear the calls for the head of Junior Legned, Super Ally.

Three years of no European football. Stripped of trophies fraudulently won. Hated by every club in the land, as an example of cheating and shamed in the history books forevermore. The days of multi-million pound signings are gone forever. You are now what you were before Murray and the madness arrived - a Scottish club, without a discernible fan base outside this country.

Celtic are playing Real Madrid this close season. That's a measure of our global brand. Your own global brand is going to attain the status of those other great exports from the organised crime syndicates of the world; cheap gin, pirate DVD's and heroin.

Enjoy Linfield though. Followed by visits to Inverness, Peterhead and Edinburgh.

And that's just the guided tour of the jails.

For football, the thrills await you at Annan, Berwick and Montrose.

A Greek king names Pyrrhus once triumphed in a major battle with the Roman's. His victory at the Battle of Asculum cost him the better part of his army, and he said after it that "one more such victory shall ruin me."

He would have recognised your "win" today for what it is. A disaster.

But hey, you are still Ra Peepil... and all that goes with that. God help you.

Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

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