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The Yes vote has it

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24

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    #32
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,340 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    stevedublin wrote: »
    Do we get to vote on this a second time, like the Lisbon treaty?

    Simply elect a government who campaign on a platform of undoing this referendum.


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    #33
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    stevedublin wrote: »
    Do we get to vote on this a second time, like the Lisbon treaty?

    No because the yes vote seems to be going through first time round, we finally learned how to vote properly.


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    #34
    808SOS
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭808SOS


    looks like it will be close but not close enough
    its going to be YES oh no.

    I hope we all realise after the recent [yesterday] news about spain and the possible trouble it may be in that if they need assistance - our assistance will be redirected to spain beacause lets face it our 4.5 million population simply wont matter until it comes to austerity to help with spain's bailout!

    go YES - it all sounded good . . . .

    we as a country aimed down at out feet and pulled the trigger . . .

    well the people that managed toget up off their ar8es and voted - yes

    the ones that didnt vote have no say


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    #35
    Eramen
    Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Eramen


    It seems old crossed-eyed Paddy wants more euro welfare checks passed his way.

    He's far too afraid to pull his own weight and forge a more independent path. Such an unconfident people we have become.


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    #36
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    smokingman wrote: »
    So now that our politicians are bound to not going crazy with our money like FF did, how good a job do you think they'll do of it?;
    It's not left up to them. That was part of the problem in the past. We'll have an independent statutory body whose job it is to tell the government "you can't pull that stunt, it's in breach of our treaty commitments."

    Which can only be a good thing.


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    #37
    808SOS
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭808SOS


    Eramen wrote: »
    It seems old crossed-eyed Paddy wants more euro welfare checks passed his way.

    He's far too afraid to pull his own weight and forge a more independent path. Such an unconfident people we have become.

    i would have to agree


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    #38
    tipptom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    So people would have voted against the treaty if the most positive aspect of the treaty had been removed?

    Thanks for that succinct analysis.
    So to add a clause to scare people to the way you want them to vote is"the most positive aspect of the treaty",wow thanks for that succinct analysis,your a funny guy.


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    #39
    C14N
    Registered Users Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭C14N


    Dublin North was 64% yes, Dublin midwest was 49% yes.

    I'm kind of surprised at those figures. I though No would have been stronger there.


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    #40
    Lemlin
    Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    I find the No side very contradictory to be honest.

    In one sentence they are complaining about how fat cat politicians have ruined our country and disappear off with their pay pensions that we pay for.

    In another, they are saying that we shouldn't cede more control to Europe.

    In a country where people are so disillusioned with the larger parties that Sinn Fein are gaining more percentage points every day, and people elect the likes of Joe Higgins and Mick Wallace, I don't see any problem with handing more power over to Europe.

    Our own politicians have shown they cannot be trusted.


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    #41
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    tipptom wrote: »
    So to add a clause to scare people to the way you want them to vote is"the most positive aspect of the treaty",wow thanks for that succinct analysis,your a funny guy.
    I love this idea that twenty five countries - including Ireland - sat down together and agreed on a wording whose purpose was to scare the Irish people into voting for that treaty.

    We really have a bizarrely inflated sense of our own importance.


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    #42
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    tipptom wrote: »
    So to add a clause to scare people to the way you want them to vote is"the most positive aspect of the treaty",wow thanks for that succinct analysis,your a funny guy.

    Does you bank manager 'scare you' into signing the conditions of your loan by making those conditions a condition of the loan?


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    #43
    808SOS
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭808SOS


    oscarBravo wrote: »

    We really have a bizarrely inflated sense of our own importance.

    ha, thats what i eluded to in my post above


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    #44
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    theteal wrote: »
    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    Perhaps voters in the less affluent areas did not want to vote yes, but weren't overly comfortable with voting no either, so they stayed at home?

    I'd say it's just a case of a lot of people being disillusioned and not bothering to vote as they don't think it makes a difference.

    The below jumped out at me on the RTE live feed
    1045 Dublin city is currently showing the Yes vote leading in four of the six constituencies.
    But the city is showing a strong social divide in the early tallies, with a strong No vote in Dublin South Central and Dublin North West.
    The No vote was nearly 90% in parts of Balllyfermot

    In "parts of Ballyfermot"? Christ. I'm sure there are "parts" of every area with 100% for yes or no.


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    #45
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Lemlin wrote: »
    I find the No side very contradictory to be honest.

    In one sentence they are complaining about how fat cat politicians have ruined our country and disappear off with their pay pensions that we pay for.

    In another, they are saying that we shouldn't cede more control to Europe.

    In a country where people are so disillusioned with the larger parties that Sinn Fein are gaining more percentage points every day, and people elect the likes of Joe Higgins and Mick Wallace, I don't see any problem with handing more power over to Europe.

    Our own politicians have shown they cannot be trusted.

    Exactly and god help us if Sinn Fein or the likes of the other two eejits ever got any power in this Country so no harm in syphoning off that power to Europe before the unthinkable happens.


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    #46
    tipptom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I love this idea that twenty five countries - including Ireland - sat down together and agreed on a wording whose purpose was to scare the Irish people into voting for that treaty.

    We really have a bizarrely inflated sense of our own importance.
    The big differance was that they knew Ireland was the only country to have to go to a referendum so our so called goverment working for the Irish people colluded with them on it against the irish people to get a yes vote for their fellow party member Mrs Merkal.


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    #47
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Eramen wrote: »
    It seems old crossed-eyed Paddy wants more euro welfare checks passed his way.

    He's far too afraid to pull his own weight and forge a more independent path. Such an unconfident people we have become.

    I am 100% confident that a fiscal union thar imposes budgetary restraint on our country is a brave move and one which is good for our country. By voting for this, we are voting for increased austerity, or so we are told. So a yes vote means we are not afraid to pull our own weight and that we don't want euro handouts.


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    #48
    View
    Registered Users Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    tipptom wrote: »
    The big differance was that they knew Ireland was the only country to have to go to a referendum so our so called goverment working for the Irish people colluded with them on it against the irish people to get a yes vote for their fellow party member Mrs Merkal.

    They did? What happened to the "They wrote the treaty so we wouldn't have a referendum" line?


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    #49
    tipptom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    Does you bank manager 'scare you' into signing the conditions of your loan by making those conditions a condition of the loan?
    He certainly does and he would scare me even more when he comes along and keeps adding more conditions to suit his own private use,then i would say NO to his dodgy conditions.


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    #50
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    tipptom wrote: »
    He certainly does and he would scare me even more when he comes along and keeps adding more conditions to suit his own private use,then i would say NO to his dodgy conditions.

    As is your right. It's absolutely not your right to get your mitts on his money without signing up to them though!

    What is it with Irish people feeling they are somehow entitled to Germany's money without condition?


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    #51
    outandabout
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭outandabout


    "Our government is founded upon the intelligence of the people. I for one do not despair of the republic. I have great confidence in the virtue of the great majority of the people, and I cannot fear the result."

    - Andrew Jackson, seventh President of the United States


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    #52
    C14N
    Registered Users Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭C14N


    tipptom wrote: »
    The big differance was that they knew Ireland was the only country to have to go to a referendum so our so called goverment working for the Irish people colluded with them on it against the irish people to get a yes vote for their fellow party member Mrs Merkal.
    • They did not know we would have a referendum, even Kenny was hoping (and was fairly sure) it wouldn't come to that.
    • We aren't that important. This treaty could (and would) have happened without us.
    tipptom wrote: »
    He certainly does

    So I take it you will never buy a house, since that needs a mortgage and you are apparently scared of being offered a loan that has conditions such as "you're going to have to pay this back".
    tipptom wrote: »
    and he would scare me even more when he comes along and keeps adding more conditions to suit his own private use,then i would say NO to his dodgy conditions.

    While "adding more conditions to suit his private use" after you had signed the deal would indeed be scary, that's also why it's entirely illegal. You had might as well say "he would scare me more when he breaks into my house and murders my family". Of course that's bad, that's why it's against the law.


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    #53
    808SOS
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭808SOS


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    I am 100% confident that a fiscal union thar imposes budgetary restraint on our country is a brave move and one which is good for our country. By voting for this, we are voting for increased austerity, or so we are told. So a yes vote means we are not afraid to pull our own weight and that we don't want euro handouts.

    and thats the problem at the moment we cannot pull our own weight
    because of the failure to burn bonds and cut some banks [ahem] loose
    and let them [it] float off into the atlantic!


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    #54
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    another amazingly wise decision from the irish voter ... along with all the other wise voting decisions that have(nt) been made over the past few years.


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    #55
    tipptom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    As is your right. It's absolutely not your right to get your mitts on his money without signing up to them though!

    What is it with Irish people feeling they are somehow entitled to Germany's money without condition?
    But it would not be his absolute rights to force me in to a situation to pay back his bank for loans he recklessly lent to Irish banks to gamble with and use the EU to put unbearable threats on so someone else to pay back the money that they gambled.


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    #56
    Sacred_git
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 337 ✭✭Sacred_git


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    Well that's it so.. Austerity for all some, and economic servitude for years to come! Plus it'll convince the government that they're doing a great job too! :rolleyes:

    Well done :(


    this treaty has little or no impact for us, a yes just means we have agreed, playing ball and more than likely will have access to funds for another bail out(which we will need!). Its a good thing for us. its better than a no vote. Whats the bets the whole treaty will collapse anyway!! Lets just keep the germans happy and its all good!


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    #57
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    Sacred_git wrote: »
    Lets just keep the germans happy and its all good!
    I think that sums up something that has become bewilderingly acceptable to repeat.

    Other variations include
    • We need them more than they need us
    • You do want to be part of the Euro don't you????
    • This vote keeps us at the heart of Europe

    It's hard to know where to begin with that really. Although I would suggest that I'm not sure there is any evidence that 'voting to be at the heart of Europe' has helped us in previous referendums.

    More importantly, however, there's the principle that you really shouldn't agree or disagree to a point on the basis that your opinion will colour others' perception of you.
    This seems to be something that the Yes side in particular have no hesitation in dismissing as inconvenient "in the current economic climate".


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    #58
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Lemlin wrote: »
    I find the No side very contradictory to be honest.

    In one sentence they are complaining about how fat cat politicians have ruined our country and disappear off with their pay pensions that we pay for.

    In another, they are saying that we shouldn't cede more control to Europe.

    In a country where people are so disillusioned with the larger parties that Sinn Fein are gaining more percentage points every day, and people elect the likes of Joe Higgins and Mick Wallace, I don't see any problem with handing more power over to Europe.

    Our own politicians have shown they cannot be trusted.

    The people should have more control. Not vested interests or political parties.


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    #59
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    tipptom wrote: »
    But it would not be his absolute rights to force me in to a situation to pay back his bank for loans he recklessly lent to Irish banks to gamble with and use the EU to put unbearable threats on so someone else to pay back the money that they gambled.

    The bold parts in your quote are pure speculation and not backed up by any evidence, I'd normally corner you by asking you to provide the evidence, knowing that you can't, because it doesn't exist, but I won't bother.

    Apart from that, do you accept that some Irish institutions recklessly gambled? If it is morally acceptable for the German tax payer to foot the bill for their institutions gambling, as you claim, then is it not also morally acceptable for the Irish tax payer to foot the bill for Irish institutions?

    I don't believe either to be the case.


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    #60
    808SOS
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭808SOS


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    The people should have more control. Not vested interests or political parties.

    the more you look at it Ireland will be like most premiership football teams
    that are not teams anymore just business . . .


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    #61
    johngalway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    The people should have more control. Not vested interests or political parties.

    Not wanting to flog a dead horse to excess but "the people" over a number of years elected Governments that got "the country" into this mess.

    I'm not entirely sure I trust "the people".


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