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The Yes vote has it

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13

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    #62
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    stevedublin wrote: »
    Do we get to vote on this a second time, like the Lisbon treaty?

    If we elect a government who wants to call a vote then yes.


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    #63
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    johngalway wrote: »
    Not wanting to flog a dead horse to excess but "the people" over a number of years elected Governments that got "the country" into this mess.

    I'm not entirely sure I trust "the people".

    Very well said. While the left in this country go on about 'the elites' and 'the establishment' they seem to forget who voted to put them there.


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    #64
    MarkHitide
    Closed Accounts Posts: 233 ✭✭MarkHitide


    To paraphrase Eamon Dunphy-
    Ireland can now take it's place proudly amongst the minnows of Europe.


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    #65
    MrO
    Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭MrO


    MarkHitide wrote: »
    To paraphrase Eamon Dunphy-
    Ireland can now take it's place proudly amongst the minnows of Europe.

    The voice of wisdom...


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    #66
    Francie Barrett
    Registered Users Posts: 16,404 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    A great day for Ireland, Fine Gael and Enda Kenny. Delighted :D


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    #67
    Boulevardier
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭Boulevardier


    It was the blackmail clause wot won it.


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    #68
    Francie Barrett
    Registered Users Posts: 16,404 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    Boulevardier wrote: »
    It was the blackmail clause wot won it.
    It was the fact that there was no alternative. If we want to be able to pay for the public sector, pensions and medicine, this treaty had to be passed.


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    #69
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    Francie Barrett wrote: »
    If we want to be able to pay for the public sector, pensions and medicine, this treaty had to be passed.
    and kittens.

    kittens would surely die.


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    #70
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Francie Barrett wrote: »
    It was the fact that there was no alternative. If we want to be able to pay for the public sector, pensions and medicine, this treaty had to be passed.

    Dont forget Social Welfare, Mortgage Interest Supplement and Rent Supplement too, plus all the bad debts of the super rich, who funnily enough are still super rich!


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    #71
    johngalway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    later12 wrote: »
    and kittens.

    kittens would surely die.

    Why didn't you tell us this a few days ago? Had I know the kittens would snuff it I would have voted No.


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    #72
    Francie Barrett
    Registered Users Posts: 16,404 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Dont forget Social Welfare, Mortgage Interest Supplement and Rent Supplement too, plus all the bad debts of the super rich, who funnily enough are still super rich!
    Like I have said before, there was no alternative. If we want a banking system and to keep the Euro, we must play by Germany's rules.


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    #73
    MarkHitide
    Closed Accounts Posts: 233 ✭✭MarkHitide


    MrO wrote: »
    The voice of wisdom...

    If I said 'ironically paraphrase' would that help?


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    #74
    Shea O'Meara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    Really pissed off with Gilmore. On the waves today talking about how we need a deal on the bank debt, knowing full well we gave away any leverage or chance to even ask yesterday, like the fearful sheep of europe that we are.
    Too late now to play the working man's champion, what a center right sell out.
    And we've Martin with his big cheesy FFail grin rubbing his grubby mits at the thought of all the money his party will be able to pilfer when they get back in.
    There's always alternatives. That's the lie sold, vote yes or we're ****ed! Bull****. Never even tried to negotiate. Many other european countries had amendments to what we were told were yes/no situations...England still using the euro? Oh no wait....

    Really pissed off with Gilmore.


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    #75
    Francie Barrett
    Registered Users Posts: 16,404 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    Shea O'Meara wrote: »
    Really pissed off with Gilmore. On the waves today talking about how we need a deal on the bank debt, knowing full well we gave away any leverage or chance to even ask yesterday, like the fearful sheep of europe that we are.
    Too late now to play the working man's champion, what a center right sell out.
    And we've Martin with his big cheesy FFail grin rubbing his grubby mits at the thought of the the money his party will be able to pilfer when they get back in.
    There's always alternatives. That's the lie sold, vote yes or we're ****ed! Bull****. Never even tried to negotiate. Many other european countries had amendments to what we were told were yes/no situations...England still using the euro? Oh no wait....

    Really pissed off.
    Don't worry. Just because it hasn't been discussed in the media, it doesn't mean Enda and his team aren't working behind the scenes on this. In the medium term, I fully expect a deal to be done.


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    #76
    Shea O'Meara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    Francie Barrett wrote: »
    It was the fact that there was no alternative. If we want to be able to pay for the public sector, pensions and medicine, this treaty had to be passed.

    That's the Zombie chant your fed. Like all good scams it has an eliment of truth but we penalise the reqular man to keep the banks going and not so they can help out for pensioners and/or young couples struggling but to keep the dicks at the top in the style they are accustomed to and make the country look good to the foreign dicks with money to pass to and from our shower, while your average joe carries the burden with the responsibility for public sector wages, welfare, pensions etc. The same ****s who live the life and didn't lose their ass because of this burden we carry are the ones doing the brain washing.


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    #77
    808SOS
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭808SOS


    Shea O'Meara wrote: »
    England still using the euro? Oh no wait....

    sweden / denmark !

    :eek:


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    #78
    tipptom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    The bold parts in your quote are pure speculation and not backed up by any evidence, I'd normally corner you by asking you to provide the evidence, knowing that you can't, because it doesn't exist, but I won't bother.

    Apart from that, do you accept that some Irish institutions recklessly gambled? If it is morally acceptable for the German tax payer to foot the bill for their institutions gambling, as you claim, then is it not also morally acceptable for the Irish tax payer to foot the bill for Irish institutions?

    I don't believe either to be the case.
    I think the late Brian Lenihan is quoted on it.
    I fully accept Irish instituitions should have come to an arrangment with their fellow reckless german lenders.


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    #79
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    tipptom wrote: »
    I think the late Brian Lenihan is quoted on it.
    I fully accept Irish instituitions should have come to an arrangment with their fellow reckless german lenders.

    Only the German lenders though? And I agree they should have taken *all* of their lenders with them when they collapsed themselves*

    However, they didn't, and I'm not sure why asking the German people to take on that debt is any less morally repugnant than asking ours to?


    *with the possible exception of the 2 large consumer banks.


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    #80
    tipptom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    Francie Barrett wrote: »
    It was the fact that there was no alternative. If we want to be able to pay for the public sector, pensions and medicine, this treaty had to be passed.
    Ha Ha,if they had no blackmail clause added it would have been a NO vote today and the beauracrats in Brussels would have knocked each other down like skittles to get to the podium for the cameras to say"Of course Ireland will have acess to bail out funds",it would have been political suicide not to considering we are supposed to be top of the class in their measures and would have put a death knell on the euro with contaigen and the unfolding spanish H bomb thats being dropped as we speak.Empty threats with the collusion of our courageous hero against the Irish people that was not possible for them to carry out.


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    #81
    tipptom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    Only the German lenders though? And I agree they should have taken *all* of their lenders with them when they collapsed themselves*

    However, they didn't, and I'm not sure why asking the German people to take on that debt is any less morally repugnant than asking ours to?


    *with the possible exception of the 2 large consumer banks.
    I think it should be up to the German people to decide if they want to take on their own banks debts but they should certainly not decide that the Irish people should take on their reckless banks debts.They lent to our banks as recklessly as our banks lended to spiv developers who said we might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.They took a gamble for more profits and lost,we never shared in their profits,why share in their losses.


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    #82
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    tipptom wrote: »
    I think it should be up to the German people to decide if they want to take on their own banks debts but they should certainly not decide that the Irish people should take on their reckless banks debts.They lent to our banks as recklessly as our banks lended to spiv developers who said we might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.They took a gamble for more profits and lost,we never shared in their profits,why share in their losses.

    So unless the German government, as representatives of their people, were to volunteer to take on this debt (which has already been repaid, by the way), then we shouldn't attempt force it on them? I agree with that.

    Of course none of this detracts from the fact that you haven't a clue about the figures or institutions involved, mind you, so the implementation details might be a bit hard...


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    #83
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Francie Barrett wrote: »
    Like I have said before, there was no alternative. If we want a banking system and to keep the Euro, we must play by Germany's rules.

    What if we don't want a banking system as it's currently defined?
    I am dismayed by this result not merely because of the loss of sovereignty but because a golden opportunity to rebuild our monetary model has been passed up. The current system will limp on, and politicians can continue to accept the limp instead of being forced to amputate it. :(


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    #84
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    live streaming of govt press conference
    http://www.merrionstreet.ie/index.php/2012/06/live-stream-of-the-eu-stability-treaty-results-press-conference/?cat=3


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    #85
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Actually to be honest the last post was a little bit defeatist. The current model of currency still faces many potential f*ckups and hurdles before it's safe, this referendum in this country was just one of them. I do feel like we've sided with those who want to continue the current path instead of those who want to change it though, which is a little upsetting.


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    #86
    C14N
    Registered Users Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭C14N


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Dont forget Social Welfare, Mortgage Interest Supplement and Rent Supplement too, plus all the bad debts of the super rich, who funnily enough are still super rich!

    Could anyone let me know who the super rich are? I keep hearing about them and how they got off scot-free but most people seem reluctant to name names. Any help here maybe?


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    #87
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,515 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Its a shame the electorate have been terrorized into a Yes result. The people who voted Yes have surrendered so much in exchange for so little. We've basically given the other EU nations a huge stick to beat us with in exchange for ... nothing.


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    #88
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    Sand wrote: »
    Its a shame the electorate have been terrorized into a Yes result. The people who voted Yes have surrendered so much in exchange for so little. We've basically given the other EU nations a huge stick to beat us with in exchange for ... nothing.
    I think you're forgetting the investment, growth, stability and employment that this result will bring.

    It's even possible to do a calculation to demonstrate that there will be no austerity.

    All will be wonderful in due time.


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    #89
    The Waltzing Consumer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    Sand wrote: »
    Its a shame the electorate have been terrorized into a Yes result. The people who voted Yes have surrendered so much in exchange for so little. We've basically given the other EU nations a huge stick to beat us with in exchange for ... nothing.

    Sorry, but this is such bull. Terrorized? Get a grip. The whole paragraph, just wrong on everything.


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    #90
    The Waltzing Consumer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    later12 wrote: »
    I think you're forgetting the investment, growth, stability and employment that this result will bring.

    It's even possible to do a calculation to demonstrate that there will be no austerity.

    All will be wonderful in due time.

    Yep, look at that scare mongering, trying to aim for investment, growth, stability and employment. These are the terrorizing terms the Yes sheeple threw at the people, and the people cowered and were forced, by gunpoint, to vote yes.

    "Yes for stability" *shudder* that is so threatening, I feel bullied, give me "another stick to beat you with" slogans any day by the No side, that's the nice guys if you don't know.


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    #91
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,515 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    later12 wrote: »
    I think you're forgetting the investment, growth, stability and employment that this result will bring.

    It's even possible to do a calculation to demonstrate that there will be no austerity.

    All will be wonderful in due time.

    True, the country is saved. The bailout will work and in 2013 we'll be back in the markets with unemployment below 11% and 3% economic growth .... forever.



    Varadkar is surely overplaying things when he claims the Yes vote means the country can be funded for the next few years - interesting that hes signalling the failure of the bailout there though. I think people will get a rapid punch in the face when they confront the dictates that will be attached to any ESM access.

    And of course, having told anyone and everyone that Ireland has no other option than the ESM at all, whatsoever, Ireland will have no choice but to accept any terms demanded of us...wonderful negotiating tactic by the team that brought you the November 2010 bailout, the Irish banking guarantee/NAMA and the much trumpeted non-deal on the promissory notes.


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