Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

RoryMac · 29-05-2012 03:39PM

Eirebear wrote: »

Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant
Scottish FA has power only to fine, suspend, eject from Scottish Cup, expel Rangers from game or terminate membership.

Basically - they need to follow their rules.

The court has not stated anything on the fact that rangers are guilty of bringing the game into disrepute, simply that the Transfer Embargo is unlawful in their eyes.

**** knows what happens next, other than the SFA hold another meeting and decide on another punishment.

Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant
FIFA said just before verdict passed that Scottish FA will be told to take action so club "withdraws its request from the ordinary courts".

Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant
FIFA undoubtedly will also look at fact court ruled Scottish FA did not give Rangers the means to appeal to CAS. Both in bother.

This is going to get very messy for the SFA, they have stumbled from one blunder to the next on this and many other issues.

Eirebear · 29-05-2012 03:40PM

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

I thought there was something about there being the option to impose any punishment that the panel found appropriate? That was my understanding and why I was so surprised Rangers won today.

That's certainly what was reported in sections of the media/internet.

As i;ve said all along though - the "evidence" is clear as mud to us mere mortals.

Jelle1880 · 29-05-2012 03:40PM

Not sure if it's true, but I read on FF that that was a rule from 1997, and that the rule stating the possible punishments (which does not mention a signing ban) was from 1997.

So that the SFA used an old rule.

Anyway:

Stay classy.

Pompey Magnus · 29-05-2012 03:42PM

RoryMac wrote: »

Where do the SFA go from here? Another occasion where it has been shown that they do not know their own rules.

As far as I know the options available are a fine, suspension or expulsion. I presume suspension would be from the Cup which wouldn't be too much of a worry for Rangers but the other 2 options would be very serious for Rangers.

The SFA are really caught now, a small fine and expulsion from the cup would be an incredibly lenient punishment for something only one step under match fixing. I wonder if they might just increase the size of the fine significantly? That could hurt Rangers much more than the transfer embargo.

Eirebear · 29-05-2012 03:43PM

RoryMac wrote: »

.

This is going to get very messy for the SFA, they have stumbled from one blunder to the next on this and many other issues.

Yeah, the SFA have ****ed up here (AGAIN!).
FIFA rules state that members must be allowed to appeal to CAS, the SFA gives no opening to do so.

bobbysands81 · 29-05-2012 03:45PM

lubo_moravcik wrote: »

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Rangers have won in court, back now to the appeal tribunal.

So the transfer embargo is lifted and they can now sign players??

No, they're in admin so can't sign players. They can sell them though.

Jelle1880 · 29-05-2012 03:46PM

bobbysands81 wrote: »

No, they're in admin so can't sign players. They can sell them though.

Lafferty's available... :pac:

lubo_moravcik · 29-05-2012 03:47PM

This is it

Glennie decides:
1. No referral to CAS is appropriate. CoS is the correct j/diction. Relies on the Ashley Cole decision and SFA protocol saying no further right of appeal.

2. SFA bodies not entitled in terms of its Articles and Protocol to impose embargo. The available sanctions are detailed in those docs.

3. Embargo not suspended as requested by RFC.

4. Reduce the appeal tribunal decision and send back to the appeal tribunal to proceed again.

5. Petitioners may not get a lighter punishment. Open to the appeal tribunal to do as they please in accordance with available sanctions.

RoryMac · 29-05-2012 03:53PM

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

The SFA are really caught now, a small fine and expulsion from the cup would be an incredibly lenient punishment for something only one step under match fixing. I wonder if they might just increase the size of the fine significantly? That could hurt Rangers much more than the transfer embargo.

The SFA have already said they felt expulsion(and suspension - could be wrong on that one) would be too harsh a punishment when they gave the original judgement so it will cause big problems to go back and look at those as options. It would also give Rangers an easy appeal if the SFA were to impose that as punishment.

Could FIFA insist that the SFA stand over the original judgement and ignore the court findings like with Sion? Unbelievable mess the SFA have put themselves in.

Eirebear wrote: »

Yeah, the SFA have ****ed up here (AGAIN!).
FIFA rules state that members must be allowed to appeal to CAS, the SFA gives no opening to do so.

Crazy that such a basic right to arbitration and appeal has been overlooked in the drawing of the SFA rulebook, it'd make a good sit-com to watch the SFA work behind closed doors, comedy gold!

Pompey Magnus · 29-05-2012 04:07PM

RoryMac wrote: »

The SFA have already said they felt expulsion(and suspension - could be wrong on that one) would be too harsh a punishment when they gave the original judgement so it will cause big problems to go back and look at those as options. It would also give Rangers an easy appeal if the SFA were to impose that as punishment.

The Disciplinary Panel did say that, but Rangers have argued that the panel was incorrect in the judgement it did issue so who is to say it wasn't also wrong in ruling out expulsion? The Appeal Panel could indeed decide that the original panel was wrong and expulsion is not too harsh. Highly unlikely but not impossible and the original statement would not help an appeal by Rangers too much.

Could FIFA insist that the SFA stand over the original judgement and ignore the court findings like with Sion? Unbelievable mess the SFA have put themselves in.

According to one of the journalists at STV FIFA will look for the SFA to punish Rangers for taking this to court. FIFA will also be looking at punishing the SFA for not allowing Rangers use arbitration.

What a shambles.

Eirebear · 29-05-2012 04:12PM

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

The Disciplinary Panel did say that, but Rangers have argued that the panel was incorrect in the judgement it did issue so who is to say it wasn't also wrong in ruling out expulsion? The Appeal Panel could indeed decide that the original panel was wrong and expulsion is not too harsh. Highly unlikely but not impossible and the original statement would not help an appeal by Rangers too much.

According to one of the journalists at STV FIFA will look for the SFA to punish Rangers for taking this to court. FIFA will also be looking at punishing the SFA for not allowing Rangers use arbitration.

What a shambles.

Hmmm - I think if the panel have found that expulsion is "Too harsh" then it would be hard to argue that a seemingly heftier penalty is justified in this case.

Also with regards to FIFA, their intent to punish Rangers would also struggle on appeal given that rangers could only act within the SFA rules - which don't allow for going to CAS.

I guess Lawell and McBride didnt rewrite the rules well enough eh?

bobbysands81 · 29-05-2012 04:19PM

Eirebear wrote: »

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

The Disciplinary Panel did say that, but Rangers have argued that the panel was incorrect in the judgement it did issue so who is to say it wasn't also wrong in ruling out expulsion? The Appeal Panel could indeed decide that the original panel was wrong and expulsion is not too harsh. Highly unlikely but not impossible and the original statement would not help an appeal by Rangers too much.

According to one of the journalists at STV FIFA will look for the SFA to punish Rangers for taking this to court. FIFA will also be looking at punishing the SFA for not allowing Rangers use arbitration.

What a shambles.

Hmmm - I think if the panel have found that expulsion is "Too harsh" then it would be hard to argue that a seemingly heftier penalty is justified in this case.

Also with regards to FIFA, their intent to punish Rangers would also struggle on appeal given that rangers could only act within the SFA rules - which don't allow for going to CAS.

I guess Lawell and McBride didnt rewrite the rules well enough eh?

But the Panel also found that suspension from Scottish Cup was too lenient!

Could this be the tipping point for the liquidation of RFC?

Read this closely Rangers fans... you had better hope you ain't suspended from Scottish Cup.

Jim Delahunt just pointed out that...

Para 4.22.6. of the CVA states that RFC has to be in all domestic leagues and competitions it's currently in, this is a condition of the CVA otherwise Charles Green gets to buy the club for £5.5m and it's curtain for RFC!

Eirebear · 29-05-2012 04:22PM

bobbysands81 wrote: »

But the Panel also found that suspension from Scottish Cup was too lenient!

Could this be the tipping point for the liquidation of RFC?

Read this closely Rangers fans... you had better hope you ain't suspended from Scottish Cup.

Jim Delahunt just pointed out that...

Para 4.22.6. of the CVA states that RFC has to be in all domestic leagues and competitions it's currently in, this is a condition of the CVA otherwise Charles Green gets to buy the club for £5.5m and it's curtain for RFC!

That's it Bobby...always look on the bright side!

bobbysands81 · 29-05-2012 11:58PM

Eirebear wrote: »

bobbysands81 wrote: »

But the Panel also found that suspension from Scottish Cup was too lenient!

Could this be the tipping point for the liquidation of RFC?

Read this closely Rangers fans... you had better hope you ain't suspended from Scottish Cup.

Jim Delahunt just pointed out that...

Para 4.22.6. of the CVA states that RFC has to be in all domestic leagues and competitions it's currently in, this is a condition of the CVA otherwise Charles Green gets to buy the club for £5.5m and it's curtain for RFC!

That's it Bobby...always look on the bright side!

I will mo chara, I don't think you've any hope whatsoever of a CVA. I also question if Green actually wants a CVA given how he's structured It.

Eirebear · 30-05-2012 12:13AM

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I will mo chara, I don't think you've any hope whatsoever of a CVA. I also question if Green actually wants a CVA given how he's structured It.

As i've said before - I don't really know enough about these things to predict either way.

Today however, was about the SFA, it's a small victory over the morons and halfwits who run the game in this country - and it will be interesting to see where the ramifications of this arm of the story end up taking us.

I can't wait to see Regan's reaction in the papers given his comments regarding Lennon's suspension(s) last season.

However, with regard to the timing of the suspension we must accept that if our rules cannot be enforced in a court of law then they cannot be imposed and it is foolish to waste money defending such a point.

PauloMN · 30-05-2012 08:22AM

Eirebear wrote: »

As i've said before - I don't really know enough about these things to predict either way.

Today however, was about the SFA, it's a small victory over the morons and halfwits who run the game in this country - and it will be interesting to see where the ramifications of this arm of the story end up taking us.

I can't wait to see Regan's reaction in the papers given his comments regarding Lennon's suspension(s) last season.

A small victory? I think the small victory could backfire bigtime on Rangers FC tbh. The transfer ban was a let off for Rangers FC - the assumption that a new, more severe punishment won't be put in its place is a huge gamble by Duff and Duffer.

As for the CVA, after Duff and Duffer take their £5m+ from the pot, I don't think there'll be enough left to make a CVA viable. Worse still, Green is more than aware of this, so his plans to liquidate will go ahead I'd imagine. This is what he wanted all along.

I've said it before - look on the bright side, leaving the history of Rangers FC behind is probably a positive thing for the most part.

Jelle1880 · 30-05-2012 09:01AM

Bright side for who ?

Eirebear · 30-05-2012 09:56AM

PauloMN wrote: »

I've said it before - look on the bright side, leaving the history of Rangers FC behind is probably a positive thing for the most part.

Just can't help yourselves sometimes can you?

Madam · 30-05-2012 10:10AM

Jesus! When will this saga ever end? I'm beginning to be afraid for the effect this will have on ALL of Scottish football tbh:(

Pompey Magnus · 30-05-2012 10:15AM

Madam wrote: »

Jesus! When will this saga ever end? I'm beginning to be afraid for the effect this will have on ALL of Scottish football tbh:(

To be honest I am beginning to think it could have a good effect, Scottish football has numerous problems and it needed something this big to shake things up, if there is a major overhaul and it helps bring serious changes then it will be to the benefit of Scottish football, however if there is just plastering over the cracks then the downward slide will continue.

Madam · 30-05-2012 10:25AM

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

To be honest I am beginning to think it could have a good effect, Scottish football has numerous problems and it needed something this big to shake things up, if there is a major overhaul and it helps bring serious changes then it will be to the benefit of Scottish football, however if there is just plastering over the cracks then the downward slide will continue.

Aye, but at what cost - the obliteration of Rangers do you think?

PauloMN · 30-05-2012 10:29AM

Eirebear wrote: »

Just can't help yourselves sometimes can you?

Ah cheer up will ya? What I said was mainly in jest, but part serious also. Is there not a tiny part of you who'd be glad to leave behind some of the baggage that comes with being a Rangers FC supporter?

It's something you might not have a choice about anyway by the looks of things. Never thought I'd see this happening, even right up to the point of administration, but it's looking more and more likely that Rangers FC will be no more soon.

Will you follow follow Rangers 2012 FC?

Jelle1880 · 30-05-2012 11:13AM

PauloMN wrote: »

A small victory? I think the small victory could backfire bigtime on Rangers FC tbh. The transfer ban was a let off for Rangers FC - the assumption that a new, more severe punishment won't be put in its place is a huge gamble by Duff and Duffer.

As for the CVA, after Duff and Duffer take their £5m+ from the pot, I don't think there'll be enough left to make a CVA viable. Worse still, Green is more than aware of this, so his plans to liquidate will go ahead I'd imagine. This is what he wanted all along.

I've said it before - look on the bright side, leaving the history of Rangers FC behind is probably a positive thing for the most part.

That 5m is not for D&P, it also includes legal fees.

Madam · 30-05-2012 11:15AM

Scottish football could face an international ban after Rangers challenged the SFA's transfer sanctions in the courts, it has been warned.

A judge overturned Rangers' one year transfer ban and a £100,000 fine for bringing the game into disrepute.

The SFA is considering its response, which could mean alternative sanctions.

But sports lawyer Dr Gregory Ioannidis said if further punishment is not imposed for the court challenge, Fifa could ban all Scottish clubs.

The articles of world governing body Fifa and Uefa state that association decisions cannot be challenged in an ordinary court.

Prior to the Court of Session decision on Tuesday, Fifa said it wanted Rangers' request withdrawn from the ordinary courts.

Lord Glennie said the transfer ban should be reconsidered by the SFA appeal panel on the grounds it was not one of the sanctions listed in the association's own regulations.

More from BBC Scotland

Looks like everyone may suffer because of Rangers behaviour in not taking their punishment(a light one at that) like everyone else:(

PauloMN · 30-05-2012 11:22AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

That 5m is not for D&P, it also includes legal fees.

It doesn't matter really, that's not relevant to my point. It could be Crusty the Clown owed £5m for all it matters.

The point is it leaves very little payout for the CVA, which kinda dooms it to failure even before it's put to the creditors.

Jelle1880 · 30-05-2012 11:51AM

Madam wrote: »

Scottish football could face an international ban after Rangers challenged the SFA's transfer sanctions in the courts, it has been warned.

A judge overturned Rangers' one year transfer ban and a £100,000 fine for bringing the game into disrepute.

The SFA is considering its response, which could mean alternative sanctions.

But sports lawyer Dr Gregory Ioannidis said if further punishment is not imposed for the court challenge, Fifa could ban all Scottish clubs.

The articles of world governing body Fifa and Uefa state that association decisions cannot be challenged in an ordinary court.

Prior to the Court of Session decision on Tuesday, Fifa said it wanted Rangers' request withdrawn from the ordinary courts.

Lord Glennie said the transfer ban should be reconsidered by the SFA appeal panel on the grounds it was not one of the sanctions listed in the association's own regulations.

More from BBC Scotland

Looks like everyone may suffer because of Rangers behaviour in not taking their punishment(a light one at that) like everyone else:(

What are you talking about, 'like everyone else' ?

Did you forget Lennon fighting tooth and nail to get his punishment downsized ?

Or the fact that a court has now ruled that the punishment was neither light or fair ?

Pompey Magnus · 30-05-2012 12:15PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

What are you talking about, 'like everyone else' ?

Did you forget Lennon fighting tooth and nail to get his punishment downsized ?

Or the fact that a court has now ruled that the punishment was neither light or fair ?

Lennon didn't break the rules in fighting his punishment as set down by football's governing body though.

Lets not forget that a court found in favour of Sion too for all the good it did them.

PauloMN · 30-05-2012 12:23PM

Lol at the comparison of Lennon's situation and the Rangers FC situation.

Made my day!

PauloMN · 30-05-2012 12:27PM

Like I said above, this could seriously backfire on Rangers FC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18265663

Rangers "got away lightly" with recent sanctions for bringing the game into disrepute, according to the former Scottish FA president John McBeth.
The Ibrox club had a 12-month transfer embargo imposed by the SFA overturned by the Court of Session on Tuesday.
Speaking to BBC Scotland, John MacBeth said: ''Rangers got away lightly with their transfer embargo.''
And MacBeth said the SFA could impose stricter punishment on the club.
''The SFA should go away and look at their books to determine what their next step should be," he continued. "They could throw them out of the league.''
McBeth, who was a vocal critic of FIFA president Sepp Blatter while in office, also claimed that SPL clubs could survive in a league without Rangers.
''Football would survive without Rangers, maybe not at the same level, and the game would may be lose some fans - but so be it,'' he said.
"If you look after the sport the money will follow you, if you look after the money you'll kill the sport.''

The transfer ban was actually doing you a favour, based on what could have been given. I think you've nailed your own coffin shut yourselves on this one, I truly believe that.

Jelle1880 · 30-05-2012 12:28PM

PauloMN wrote: »

Lol at the comparison of Lennon's situation and the Rangers FC situation.

Made my day!

Glad I could help

But apparently Rangers should just accept any punishment, even when a court rules that they were punished wrongly ?

And I used Celtic and Lennon as an example because if there's one team that always try to fight any punishment received...

Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

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