Spoiler-Free Answers from Readers

Tenger · 21-05-2012 12:28AM

Great thread, and very useful for non-readers.

In reply to the Wildling with knife/Bran question:

A few wildlings tried to capture/kill Bran while on out riding in season 1. Robb and Theon killed them (Apart from Osha) I think Theon used a bow and was then given out to by Robb for endangering his brother.

SirDelboy18 · 24-05-2012 10:42PM

Has Arya used her third kill? I was a bit confused personally. Just a yes or no would do perfectly please and thanks.

MitchKoobski · 24-05-2012 11:04PM

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Has Arya used her third kill? I was a bit confused personally. Just a yes or no would do perfectly please and thanks.

Yes. Her third kill choice was Jaqen himself, so in order to get Arya to un-name him, he had to arrange an escape plan for her. She basically exchanged her last pick for an escape.

26-05-2012 05:10PM

MitchKoobski wrote: »

Yes. Her third kill choice was Jaqen himself, so in order to get Arya to un-name him, he had to arrange an escape plan for her. She basically exchanged her last pick for an escape.

But lives were taken so the Red God is satisfied

DL Saint · 26-05-2012 07:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

But lives were taken so the Red God is satisfied

Well from how I interprated it the Red God applies to death by fire, so Arya by saving the three from the flames had three lives to give to the god. Now two were taken and then around 5 after that, surely the Red God only wanted 1 more life taken to balance it out and now there are lives taken that shouldn't be... Anyway I know it dusn't really matter too much, was just the way I saw it :cool:

squonk · 28-05-2012 02:18PM

I've just started on Book 1 at the weekend and I have seen other comments on here about a back story e.g. where Robb has to marry the Frey Girl and Arya has to marry a Frey son thanks to Cait who arranged it. I even get the feeling from the books that there is a back story. I'm only on Ch 2! Is there a GoT prequel or a previous series with Ned and Robert Barathian growing up? Is diving into the books a bit like going at LoTR without having first read The Hobbit?

ArmaniJeanss · 28-05-2012 02:37PM

squonk wrote: »

I've just started on Book 1 at the weekend and I have seen other comments on here about a back story e.g. where Robb has to marry the Frey Girl and Arya has to marry a Frey son thanks to Cait who arranged it. I even get the feeling from the books that there is a back story. I'm only on Ch 2! Is there a GoT prequel or a previous series with Ned and Robert Barathian growing up? Is diving into the books a bit like going at LoTR without having first read The Hobbit?

Nope, all those things you've mentioned with Robb/Arya and the Freys will happen in the book you are reading.
The history of Ned & Robert and how they got were they are will also be touched upon in this book.

stevenmu · 28-05-2012 02:39PM

There's no prequel that I'm aware of. The books give a bit more detail on the relationship between Cat's family and the Freys later (and bits about Ned and Robert), as needed. I won't say if there's anything important there or not, because that in itself would be a spoiler

But I will say that it doesn't leave you hanging completely and that you don't need to have read anything else previously.

If you're new to reading fantasy or sci-fi books, it's fairly common for them to do this, they often hint at past events and then slowly reveal more and more about them, it helps to create a more believable world. It does often leave you wondering if there's something else you should have read, but that in turn helps them sell more books

squonk · 28-05-2012 03:32PM

I've read fantasy off and on over the years but it's my first time reading GRRM so I wasn't sure if there was anything of a prequel! Thanks!

Sleepy · 28-05-2012 04:59PM

There's a series of short stories / novellas called "the tales of Dunk & Egg" that are a sort of a prequel, they feature Ser Duncan the Tall a Hedge Knight and his squire Egg and occur roughly 100 years before the events of A Game of Thrones.

They're more an interesting diversion that describes more of the world (and what life was like under Targaryen rule prior to the "Mad King" Aerys) than direct prequels though.

The three written so far are:

The Hedge Knight (also available as a graphic novel)
The Sworn Sword (also available as a graphic novel)
The Mystery Knight

GRRM plans to write a good deal more of these (anywhere from 6 to 12 in total depending on the interview you find), there's a fourth installment due this year actually

More info: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Dunk_and_Egg (be careful on the wiki, spoilers abound elsewhere)

squonk · 29-05-2012 01:45PM

There's conjecture at the moment over on the 'Haven't Read the Books' Episode 9 thread about whether Sansa has actually left Kings Landing with The Hound. She seems very reluctant to leave the place though I believe she has gone. It was great to finally see her get out of there for her own safety but it highlights for me why her character bugs me so much.

She's very unlike the rest of her family. My impression of her during S1 was of a girl who was full of herself and intent on being queen and thinking how great she was. When Jofrey revealed his true colours you would think that would have been enough to get her plotting in some way to get out of there ASAP. Even Tyrion seems to have seen the writing on the wall at some point and offered to get her out of there if I remember/interpreted that correctly. She declined. Tyrion has a sense of decency none of the other Lannisters have so I'm pretty sure he was focusing on her welfare and while he might have wished to see her left with an ally rather than allowed to return to Winterfell, at least she'd have been out of Joffrey's way. Even this latest offer to help her leave was met with indecision. I believe she's finally bitten the bullet and gone on the run.

Why is she so stupid? Why is she so generally boring? I would hope she's a Cat Stark in training rather than a scared girly girl all through the books. I know people can't and might not even want to comment on what's happening with her character and it's not fair on non-readers but am I justified in my view of her? Can she grow? Is this the beginning of her journey to be a stronger person?

Not everyone can be Arya but she's really a polar opposite to Sansa. I'd watch a full Arya episode any day ahead of a Sansa one.

Sleepy · 29-05-2012 02:03PM

Arya and Sansa are portrayed as polar opposites from the very start of the show: Arya's a tomboy showing up Bran with a bow and arrow whilst Sansa's playing with doll's, doing croché etc.

Sansa's much more her mother's daughter: a highborn lady who's being raised to take part in a political marriage, please her husband and give him lots of children. Arya's rebelling against this role in life, admiring female warriors of the past (Nymeria) and Ned comments at some point that she reminds him of his sister Lyanna (that Robert loved).

Many readers find Sansa an irritating character and, tbh, I find her to be a bit stronger in the TV series, getting the odd barbed comment in here and there. Her position at the moment is really quite simple: she's a scared little girl who's being rudely awakened to the fact that the world she lives isn't one of the chivalrous and noble knights of the songs and that not all noblemen live up to the word "noble" as her father did.

I don't recall Tyrion offering to get her out of Kings Landing in the series, he showed concern for her and wanted to protect her from Joffrey (as obviously, him harming her would damage any possibility of suing for peace with the Starks: she's worth far more to the Lannisters alive and unharmed than dead and Tyrion, being a pragmatic man like his father, knows this).

If you want an answer as to whether she left with the hound or not: SPOILER FOR NEXT WEEK'S EPISODE:

she didn't

squonk · 29-05-2012 02:24PM

Thanks Sleepy! I think I did misinterpret what Tyrion said, but she even refused his protection. I know she's a scared little girl but surely at some point self protection has to kick in and force her to choose a side. Cat releasing Jaime Lannister did strike me as being very much one of those stupid, pointless moves that you see every day with Sansa. There's a dignity and presence to Lady Stark that Sansa doesn't have though. Every time I see her now I end up thinking that if I had a sword I'd run her through myself. She's utterly helpless.

Thanks for the spoiler! There's a trailer going around that tells what happens so I'd have caught that before the ep aired anyway so it's not a big one!

Sleepy · 29-05-2012 02:29PM

She did my head in reading the books as well tbh. The books are written in a POV form so each chapter deals with a single characters view (e.g. Jon, Ned, Sansa, Bran, Arya, Tyrion, Daenarys and Catelyn were the POV's in the first book IIRC)

On my first read of the books I was utterly hooked: often reading until 3/4am when I had to be up for work the next day. It was usually when I saw the next chapter was a Sansa chapter that I was finally able to put the book down!

duiggers · 29-05-2012 02:32PM

squonk wrote: »

She's very unlike the rest of her family. My impression of her during S1 was of a girl who was full of herself and intent on being queen and thinking how great she was. When Jofrey revealed his true colours you would think that would have been enough to get her plotting in some way to get out of there ASAP. Even Tyrion seems to have seen the writing on the wall at some point and offered to get her out of there if I remember/interpreted that correctly. She declined. Tyrion has a sense of decency none of the other Lannisters have so I'm pretty sure he was focusing on her welfare and while he might have wished to see her left with an ally rather than allowed to return to Winterfell, at least she'd have been out of Joffrey's way. Even this latest offer to help her leave was met with indecision. I believe she's finally bitten the bullet and gone on the run.

When Tyrion (who is a Lannister in her own eyes) offered her a way out how could she fully trust him and accept it. If she had it would blatantly show that she isn't loyal to Joffrey/Lannisters which would'nt have been looked to kindly upon by momma Lannsiter.

Of course she indecisive about the Hounds offer, he's said to her he loves killing and even if he doesn't kill he can do quite a lot else to her. It would be worse if she just went around trusting everyone who showed a bit off decency to her, instead she is weighing up her options to pick her best escape opportunity.

Sleepy · 29-05-2012 02:37PM

There's a definite truth to this: she's beginning to see how the game is played and recognise the danger that someone who appears to be offering help could just be manoeuvring you so they can put the dagger in your back but there's a big leap from recognising that there is a Game of Thrones and being able to play an active part in it!

squonk · 29-05-2012 03:52PM

Those are fair points alright. I know she didn't know this but the fact that Tyrion is, himself, playing his own games with Mammy Lannister and protecting his own whore probably shows he wasn't really trying to set her up but to keep her safe, for his own ends obviously but it's better than now.

The Hound is no saint but he certainly looks to be genuine about protecting her. I know there's advantages to him being on the run with a Stark who he could use as a prisoner if needed be but she's not exactly home and dry in Kings Landing right now. By comparison, if Arya waited to double check every offer of help, she'd probably have her head on a spike in Harrenhall by now.

CastorTroy · 29-05-2012 04:14PM

I keep seeing the names starting with it but what does "Ser" mean? Is it a title of some sort?

Crucifix · 29-05-2012 04:21PM

CastorTroy wrote: »

I keep seeing the names starting with it but what does "Ser" mean? Is it a title of some sort?

Ser is the title for a knight, so all the chaps in the kingsguard for example, Ser Boros Blunt, Ser Mandon Moore, etc

Einhard · 29-05-2012 08:48PM

squonk wrote: »

Every time I see her now I end up thinking that if I had a sword I'd run her through myself. She's utterly helpless.

I think that's a tad unfair considering the situation she finds herself in. She's 1 13 year old girl, raised as a highborn lady in one of the greatest houses in the land, and like many young girls had her head filled with impossible notions of romance and chivalry and a happy ending.

Unlike most such girls though, in whom such notions slowly dissipate as they grow older na dmore worldly wise, Sansa's conception of the world is smashed before her eyes in the most brutal fashion possible. The boy whom she had hoped to love has turned out to be a sadistic tyrant who not only savagely killed her father, but presses home the point at every opportunity. He beats her savagely, has his knights do so too, and talks of the tortures he will inflict on the rest of her family.

She is imprisoned in an unfamiliar city, with nobody she knows, and a mere pawn in a vicious game. She cannot trust anyone, she is constantly in fear for her life, and she knows that she is only still around because of her usefullness. In honesty, I think Arya's position is enviable compare to Sansa's, and when one looks at her predicament, she's actually holding up very well.

Hyzepher · 31-05-2012 11:35AM

Now that the battle of Blackwater is over, can anyone explain what this chain thing is and what it did in the books?

Tenger · 31-05-2012 11:58AM

Hyzepher wrote: »

Now that the battle of Blackwater is over, can anyone explain what this chain thing is and what it did in the books?

Historically many ports/harbours had chain booms to block them in time of war/raiding/attack. The theory is that a ship cannot sail into/out of the harbour while the chain is raised.

An example from late 1700's USA can be read about here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson_River_Chain

In Games of Throne terms, Tyrion knew about the wildfire and knew how dangerous it was to use. They knew that Stannis would attack using his large fleet. So the tactic was to allow the ships to enter the harbour, raise the chain behind them and then unleash the wildfire. The ships would be trapped by the chain and/or unable to manoeuvre to avoid the wildfire.

Tigger · 31-05-2012 02:28PM

CastorTroy wrote: »

"Of course Ned didn't die but he was sneaked off into hiding" in the first book when that doesn't get revealed until season 3.

:eek:

Professional Griefer · 01-06-2012 10:59PM

People have been saying not to google the Rains Of Castamere cause it has spoilers for next season. Was there any significance for it been played at the end of that episode?

DL Saint · 01-06-2012 11:04PM

Ix Deadmau5 wrote: »

People have been saying not to google the Rains Of Castamere cause it has spoilers for next season. Was there any significance for it been played at the end of that episode?

Maybe just cause it symbolizes Lannister victory?

Professional Griefer · 01-06-2012 11:11PM

DL Saint wrote: »

Maybe just cause it symbolizes Lannister victory?

Tenger · 02-06-2012 06:03AM

Ix Deadmau5 wrote: »

People have been saying not to google the Rains Of Castamere cause it has spoilers for next season. Was there any significance for it been played at the end of that episode?

I'm going to be careful here.

The 'Rains of Castamere' (as a song) gives nothing away about the future paths of the series. However I can see how by reading about the song you may stumble upon a spoiler for Season 3.

In the background the song essentially says "don't mess with the Lannisters or you will be wiped out" So its use in this episode is perfectly placed to tie up the 1st half of the War of 5 Kings.

(Lannisters always pay their debts)

mikemac1 · 02-06-2012 07:01AM

Hyzepher wrote: »

Now that the battle of Blackwater is over, can anyone explain what this chain thing is and what it did in the books?

For an Irish example a chain was used across the Foyle in the siege of Derry.

There are some documentaries up on youtube and they recreate this

Professional Griefer · 05-06-2012 11:53AM

So what did the readers think of that season?
Did it follow the book closely? I remember reading that they kept fairly tight with the 1st book, but this season they veered a bit.
Where does season 2 stop? Is it at the end of ACOK or does it go into the next one?

Sleepy · 05-06-2012 12:11PM

Season 2 has stopped pretty much exactly where A Clash of Kings ends.

The show has deviated quite a bit from the books this season and to varying effect: Dany's story has been made more interesting, Jon's has been thoroughly rushed, Robb's far more in focus in the series but the woman he's married is a completely different character to the girl he married in the books, some characters have been left out completely, others we know we're going to meet next season instead of this season when they should have been introduced.

By and large, I and the majority of readers seem to be happy with the series as a stand-alone thing at this stage. There are a significant number of purists who aren't overly happy with some of the changes maintaining they're changes for changes sake and, while I can see they have some valid points, I don't see them as being damaging enough to the overall story for it to take away from my enjoyment of it. There's also the few cranks who think the show's been ruined due to things the rest of us can see are clearly necessary due to budget and time constraints.

9 months to wait gives ye non readers plenty of time to catch up for next season!

Spoiler-Free Answers from Readers

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