At least 63 children alone murdered in the last two days!

Biggins · 26-05-2012 05:01PM

token101 wrote: »

You honestly believe the army is directly targeting civilians? Really?

Yes, either that or his army is the worst shots in the history of probably nearly every army since the invention of the cannon.
Hell, they even fired upon the Arab independent observers and their vehicles that was clearly marked - and that was just last week.

Whats the pitiful excuse that those acts too?

And it makes sense, by attacking civ's they stand to gain exactly zero and potentially lose much much more.

He's not doing it for the 'craic' - as is the expression you mentioned.
He's doing it to terrify them into submission and silence.
A lot of the world sees this and recognises this tactic he's using - he's not the first to use it.

...And if he gets 'submission and silence' his tactics works very well in his favour!
His regime of torture and killings will further continue.

Jaafa · 26-05-2012 05:09PM

Biggins wrote: »

Yes, either that or his army is the worst shots in the history of probably nearly every army since the invention of the cannon.
Hell, they even fired upon the Arab independent observers and their vehicles that was clearly marked - and that was just last week.

Whats the pitiful excuse that those acts too?

Wow. Ok let me get this straight.

The US army using the most sophisticated weapon systems in the history of mankind regularly kills dozens of civilians in battles with Taliban or in strikes against militants in Pakistan, yet it is incomprehensible to you that the 2nd rate Syrian army using 70's and 80's era weaponry could do the same in battles with opposition forces?

What evidence do you have that the above isn't the case? Seeing as the SOHR is only source for these claims? Seeing that their allegiance has been established.

He's not doing it for the 'craic' - as is the expression you mentioned.
He's doing it to terrify them into submission and silence.
A lot of the world sees this and recognises this tactic he's using - he's not the first to use it.

...And if he gets 'submission and silence' his tactics works very well in his favour!
His regime of torture and killings will further continue.

Oh yeah because that worked out so well for Gadaffi. The army is more than capable of eventually defeating the rebels militarily without having to 'scare' them, what Assad can not afford is external intervention.

humberklog · 26-05-2012 05:27PM

Threads of this ilk on AH hours always give me the queasy feeling that it's really just fuel for a bluffers guide to caring.

A vacuous relevance. When you listen hard you can almost hear the internet slowly eating itself.

A cancer on concern, disguised as a cure.

Biggins · 26-05-2012 05:30PM

Jaafa wrote: »

...it is incomprehensible to you that the 2nd rate Syrian army using 70's and 80's era weaponry could do the same in battles with opposition forces?

Well that might explain why they are so crap at killing the people they are supposedly opposing - instead of innocent civilians.

Would you care to explain how attacking funerals, mourners and graveyards/gravesides is fighting armed militants?

Jaafa wrote: »

What evidence do you have that the above isn't the case? Seeing as the SOHR is only source for these claims? Seeing that their allegiance has been established.

These claims - as with previous ones will be either backed up by further Arab independent confirmation or someone will amazingly expose that the bodies shown in the Irish Times, the Youtube videos of the butchered children with the insides of their heads blown off, the women that have been cut in two by shells, etc... have been all made up!

Yea... Its all lies! :rolleyes:

What stupidity!

Jaafa wrote: »

The army is more than capable of eventually defeating the rebels militarily without having to 'scare' them, what Assad can not afford is external intervention.

Assad has tried (and still tries) alternative methods to scare the population into submission, the continuing killings - as witnessed by Arab independents alone - still continues.

...But you continue on trying to justify such killings and/or say/espouse that its all made up.
...And if they are not even HALF made up, how do you justify killing so many innocent adults and kids?

International leaders have condemned the reported killing of at least 90 people, including children, in the Syrian town of Houla by the government.

UK Foreign Secretary William Hague said he would seek a strong international response to the "appalling crime".

France's Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius and the Arab League also condemned the assault.

Shocking but unverified footage shows the bodies of children after government forces shelled and attacked the town.

This is said to be one the bloodiest attacks in one area since a nominal truce began in April.

The UN said its international monitors had visited the area.

The UN says at least 10,000 have been killed since an uprising began in March 2011 against President Bashar al-Assad's rule.

Arab League head Nabil al-Arabi called the killing a "horrific crime" and urged the Security Council to "stop the escalation of killing and violence by armed gangs and government military forces," the Reuters news agency reports.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18221461

Leana Hosea
BBC News
The "massacre" video which has emerged from Houla bears the sound of a man screaming:

"These are all children! Watch, you dogs, you Arabs, you animals - look at these children, watch, just watch!"

On a bedroom floor dozens of little children lie dead, their arms and legs strewn over one another. Many of their eyes are still open, bearing a look of shock and fright. They are all covered with blood and obviously suffered terrible deaths.

A girl, who is perhaps seven years old, wearing a headscarf and pink diamonte belt, lies face to face in death with a much younger boy.

Another little boy in a yellow jumper lies with his arms stretched out, almost cradling the head of the girl next to him. Blood covers both their faces and soaks their hair.

People off camera are shouting: "Oh God, oh God, oh God."

In one instance, six members of a family were killed when their house was shelled, the Observatory said.

Yea, thats a great fcuking military target!

wes · 26-05-2012 05:31PM

Yes, its shameful that what Assad is doing, but the simple fact is that Assad has some powerful friends who are protecting him. The same happened in the case of Bahrain as well recently.

To be fair, I am not sure what exactly could be done to stop them. Libya didn't quite work out so well, with intervention, and there seems to be a great deal of problems there still. BTW, I am not against intervention, just against people going in and making things worse, which is a real possibility imho.

Chuck Stone · 26-05-2012 05:42PM

Dudess wrote: »

That's why I question the boycotting of Israeli goods - I wonder whether it would have a trickle-down effect on Palestinian people themselves.

Afaia there are sanctions targeted at goods and services produced in the West Bank that are sold as Israeli which are more 'surgical' and are easier to support.

Biggins · 26-05-2012 05:57PM

Dudess wrote: »

That's why I question the boycotting of Israeli goods - I wonder whether it would have a trickle-down effect on Palestinian people themselves.

Strategic economic sanctions.

A first world country can tell a company and/or person that they should have no longer any dealings with such regimes - if they don't stop, their presence, their company and their business will no longer be desired or wanted within the confines of another modern country (such as America). Their ability to travel will be curtailed, their finances will be possibly frozen, they will be possibly charged with supporting a regime, as such assisting a regime that is killing innocent people, that they too are accountable as they are acting as an enabler!

If any company/person has any sense, they would stop supporting these dictator killing nutjobs - especially when they see their economic finances are effected - and thats effected outside beyond Syrian borders, not within.

Those within will still - as we might assume now - still struggle to find food, water and all the things they need to get through a day in safety.
Meanwhile outside the borders of Syria, a company/person will be pressurised to comply and if they lose or are put on hold, for a government contract for the likes of England, Ireland, Russia or America, they will soon kop themselves on when they start to see massive loss of profit in their bank accounts, from the businesses they are running outside of Syria.

UPDATE: RTE news at 6 reports that UN observers have confirmed the killings by the way!

Let the bullschite artists still continue with their rubbish...

skoomi · 26-05-2012 06:37PM

Biggins wrote: »

UPDATE: RTE news at 6 reports that UN observers have confirmed the killings by the way!

LoL... you still get your news from RTE?

planetX · 26-05-2012 06:39PM

Stinicker wrote: »

They don't have Oil, there is nothing to see here, move along folks.

they do have oil:p

mikemac1 · 26-05-2012 06:40PM

22 countries in the Arab League

They already suspended Syria

Seems to be a bit of a toothless talking shop

Still, let the Arabs sort out their region

If another country steps in I'll be reading another thread in AH about the powerful countries becoming the worlds policemen and interfering where they are not wanted

Maybe from the same OP

Scioch · 26-05-2012 06:43PM

How much are those observers getting paid and who are they ? That would be some fcukin job, observing slaughter in a volatile place like that and even getting attacked regularly yourself from what I see.

Question is that now that the UN observers can confirm atrocities are taking place what will the UN do ? Surely its upscale pressure, pull the observers and do what was done in Libya ?

christmas2012 · 26-05-2012 06:45PM

its a pity the UN dont have more powers

Biggins · 26-05-2012 06:45PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

...If another country steps in I'll be reading another thread in AH about the powerful countries becoming the worlds policemen and interfering where they are not wanted

Maybe from the same OP

I've never started a thread about "powerful countries becoming the worlds policemen" etc...

The world don't need to step in across borders as such, there is much they can at least try doing from outside.

christmas2012 wrote: »

its a pity the UN dont have more powers

Sadly they are restrained by Russia and China in this instance to a great extent.

Scioch · 26-05-2012 06:47PM

Biggins wrote: »

Sadly they are restrained by Russia and China in this instance to a great extent.

All a game of military chess while the poor old average schmoes get the raw end of the deal.

Apelles · 26-05-2012 06:48PM

humberklog wrote: »

Threads of this ilk on AH hours always give me the queasy feeling that it's really just fuel for a bluffers guide to caring.

A vacuous relevance. When you listen hard you can almost hear the internet slowly eating itself.

A cancer on concern, disguised as a cure.

Thats quite an unforunate outlook to have. What would you rather people just turned a blind eye to everything that doesn't directly concern themselves? what a sad selfish world that would lead to.

Really sh!tty stuff like this happens . . yes you guessed it, because 'good' people idly stand-by & just watch while doing nothing to help or even raise awareness.

Thanks Biggins for trying to enlighten us.

Nodin · 26-05-2012 06:51PM

humberklog wrote: »

Threads of this ilk on AH hours always give me the queasy feeling that it's really just fuel for a bluffers guide to caring.

A vacuous relevance. When you listen hard you can almost hear the internet slowly eating itself.

A cancer on concern, disguised as a cure.

A silly post, phrased to look "deep".

Biggins · 26-05-2012 06:54PM

LordSmeg wrote: »

All a game of military chess while the poor old average schmoes get the raw end of the deal.

No argument there.

Jester252 · 26-05-2012 07:25PM

When did everybody become cool with US lead invasion across the world?

26-05-2012 07:34PM

Biggins wrote: »

Very true - so such sanctions should target those that have the most to lose.
Those that are supporting the regime - not just targeting the regime itself.
Target the industries/people that are propping up the killers (on BOTH sides).
Take away the killers support mechanism, their military resource suppliers alone, would make a huge difference.

How do you do that exactly? Economic sanctions affect the poorer people way more than the better off as it restricts (for most people) the entire economy to purely domestic and eventually towards subsistence. The middle class who may want to GTFO have had their assets seized and can't do ****.

Have a look at any country under harsh sanctions, is it the leaders and army who suffer? Is it shite.

Gee Bag · 26-05-2012 07:35PM

Apelles wrote: »

Thats quite an unforunate outlook to have. What would you rather people just turned a blind eye to everything that doesn't directly concern themselves? what a sad selfish world that would lead to.

Really sh!tty stuff like this happens . . yes you guessed it, because 'good' people idly stand-by & just watch while doing nothing to help or even raise awareness.

Thanks Biggins for trying to enlighten us.

There's nothing unfortunate about having a realistic outlook.

If you have watched the news or read a paper in the last 15 months you'll know there is a war in Syria. Posting in After Hours about it isn't 'raising awareness' (unless After Hours is your only news source)

Anyone with a brain in there head knows war is a bad thing, anyone who thinks posting on an internet forum based in a small neutral country will have any effect hasn't.

Wanting to publicly wring your hands and say why can't we all get along is not enlightening.

Nodin · 26-05-2012 07:41PM

Jester252 wrote: »

When did everybody become cool with US lead invasion across the world?

I'm not. Intervention in Syria would be a disaster and would undermine the rebels.

up for anything · 26-05-2012 07:42PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There are thousands of unborn babies murdered in abortion clinics through out the northern hemisphere every day and no one seems to bat an eye lid until something like this comes up.

And before that the hundreds of thousands of pregnant women who died on kitchen tables, bled to death after the fact or killed themselves in an effort to escape unwanted pregnancies or the little girls who died in secret childbirth. Not to mention the women and girls who were locked away or shunned because of their unborn babies. The born babies left outside to die like so much rubbish. The babies whose mothers overlaid them because they couldn't manage a 13th or 14th child. Lets outlaw abortion and bring back those days again. :rolleyes: Before abortion clinics the unborn were still killed but most of the time their mothers died with them. Proper order according to you, I suppose.

Biggins · 26-05-2012 07:52PM

Jester252 wrote: »

When did everybody become cool with US lead invasion across the world?

Please show us where we have espoused this?
Please do... We will await your back-up to this!

Gee Bag wrote: »

There's nothing unfortunate about having a realistic outlook.

If you have watched the news or read a paper in the last 15 months you'll know there is a war in Syria. Posting in After Hours about it isn't 'raising awareness' (unless After Hours is your only news source)

Anyone with a brain in there head knows war is a bad thing, anyone who thinks posting on an internet forum based in a small neutral country will have any effect hasn't.

Wanting to publicly wring your hands and say why can't we all get along is not enlightening.

So instead, lets be uselessly negative, equally post on the internet, put down any efforts to see that such things are mentioned, and state things that wasn't actually said - yea, that will the do the world a lot of good!

I or no one else has stated "...why can't we all get along" - please show where someone stated this!

humberklog · 26-05-2012 08:59PM

Apelles wrote: »

Thats quite an unforunate outlook to have. What would you rather people just turned a blind eye to everything that doesn't directly concern themselves? what a sad selfish world that would lead to.

Thanks Biggins for trying to enlighten us.

It's an unfortunate position to be in to be relying on After Hours to inform yourself.

There are some very good reports on the matter brought up in many news papers (good and bad), there are good articles on it on good news stations, there are good books on the history of it, there has been many excellent radio broadcasts on it.

I wouldn't rather people turn a blind eye to the situation in Syria. I'd rather people throw a cautious eye if they begin to feel that they are being enlightened on After Hours.

Tym · 26-05-2012 09:29PM

In all honesty, if any of the wester countries moved in there'd be outcry of oil, ahhhh the americans are at it again.

Biggins · 26-05-2012 09:31PM

humberklog wrote: »

It's an unfortunate position to be in to be relying on After Hours to inform yourself.

There are some very good reports on the matter brought up in many news papers (good and bad), there are good articles on it on good news stations, there are good books on the history of it, there has been many excellent radio broadcasts on it.

I wouldn't rather people turn a blind eye to the situation in Syria. I'd rather people throw a cautious eye if they begin to feel that they are being enlightened on After Hours.

Be it on After Hours or elsewhere, anyone that posts something of a serious nature, has to back their stuff up with (what they think is) creditable links.

Everything has to be judged with an open mind, this is no less or more on AH than anywhere else.
Thats why just because I see something on AH that I don't by default, put something down as not as credible as elsewhere.

Speaking personally, I have been VERY enlightened as to may things AND aspects to things I already have come across previously.
AH is many things - and it can have its good moments and posts too, be it from discussing depression to lives lost and love thats won!

Sunnyisland · 26-05-2012 09:42PM

humberklog wrote: »

It's an unfortunate position to be in to be relying on After Hours to inform yourself.

There are some very good reports on the matter brought up in many news papers (good and bad), there are good articles on it on good news stations, there are good books on the history of it, there has been many excellent radio broadcasts on it.

I wouldn't rather people turn a blind eye to the situation in Syria. I'd rather people throw a cautious eye if they begin to feel that they are being enlightened on After Hours.

There have and are many a good topic discussed on after hours and I have been enlightened many a time here and boards.ie in general, don't see any harm what so ever about this thread and as AH is the most read forum here what better way to spread or discuss some thing as important as the war/uprising in syria, nice to hear from what real people think than reading one sided bias in newspapers.

Gee Bag · 26-05-2012 09:53PM

Biggins wrote: »

So instead, lets be uselessly negative, equally post on the internet, put down any efforts to see that such things are mentioned, and state things that wasn't actually said - yea, that will the do the world a lot of good!

I or no one else has stated "...why can't we all get along" - please show where someone stated this!

I post in After Hours because its generally a light hearted forum. If I have something serious to post I use one of the other forums or a different website.

In my first post in this thread I stated that I thought your opinions were somewhat naive regarding the efficacy of sanctions. None of your other posts have changed my opinion.

My second post in this thread was not 'uselessley negative'. I was merely giving my opinion that the possibility of stopping the war in Syria by posting on an Irish website is daft. If the Syrians aren't prepared to listen to the EU, the Arab League, most of the UN, etc. then they are very, very unlikley to take on board the opinions of the boys and girls of After Hours. Realism and cynicism are not the same thing.

Why can't we all get along was not put in inverta commas, therefore I did not imply it was a direct quote. It was a comment on the general tone and tenor on some of the posts in this thread.

TBH I found your way of engaging with others on this thread so far to be quite simplistic. I don't recall anyone saying killing children was a good thing. People have different opinions.

If you want to preach you should get a blog.

christmas2012 · 26-05-2012 09:55PM

i would think the international community should do more about this mess,i mean the UN just observing killings?wtf?

Biggins · 26-05-2012 11:00PM

Gee Bag wrote: »

I post in After Hours because its generally a light hearted forum. If I have something serious to post I use one of the other forums or a different website.

In my first post in this thread I stated that I thought your opinions were somewhat naive regarding the efficacy of sanctions. None of your other posts have changed my opinion.

My second post in this thread was not 'uselessley negative'. I was merely giving my opinion that the possibility of stopping the war in Syria by posting on an Irish website is daft. If the Syrians aren't prepared to listen to the EU, the Arab League, most of the UN, etc. then they are very, very unlikley to take on board the opinions of the boys and girls of After Hours. Realism and cynicism are not the same thing.

Why can't we all get along was not put in inverta commas, therefore I did not imply it was a direct quote. It was a comment on the general tone and tenor on some of the posts in this thread.

TBH I found your way of engaging with others on this thread so far to be quite simplistic. I don't recall anyone saying killing children was a good thing. People have different opinions.

If you want to preach you should get a blog.

1.

If I have something serious to post I use one of the other forums or a different website.

Thats your choice isn't it!

2.

In my first post in this thread I stated that I thought your opinions were somewhat naive regarding the efficacy of sanctions.

I'd rather be informed and be naive than be irritatingly negative, insulting in tone and content and downright useless in not even offering alternatives to just others attempts!

3.

I was merely giving my opinion that the possibility of stopping the war in Syria by posting on an Irish website is daft.

Thats your opinion.
I disagree. Thats my opinion.
I consider your negativity and lack of alternative suggestion(s) just as daft!

4.

If the Syrians aren't prepared to listen to the EU, the Arab League, most of the UN, etc. then they are very, very unlikley to take on board the opinions of the boys and girls of After Hours.

My post was not aimed at them but then anyone with a bit of kop, would have easily seen that!
Something you missed then?

5.

Why can't we all get along was not put in inverta commas, therefore I did not imply it was a direct quote. It was a comment on the general tone and tenor on some of the posts in this thread.

Aye yes... It was something you spin now that was/is now just opinion we can assume?
So it wasn't something that was actually said now, it was just your mind and what it thought it saw?
I see... Pity you don't!

6.

If you want to preach you should get a blog.

Now why didn't I think of that!
Clearly something else you cannot see!

At least 63 children alone murdered in the last two days!

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