Your irish 22 for the 2015 rugby world cup

GerM · 26-05-2012 11:21am

A lot of people base their view on Marshall on some livewire cameos in the HEC this season but it seems that those who watch him week in, week out, hold a very different opinion. Interesting to see how some hype and selective moments can skew perception.

To be honest, I think there's a strong chance there'll be minimal change for 2015. I think we could be looking at potentially 7 of the pack coming from this year's 6N squad with tighthead looking the most likely change and possibly one at lock. Healy, Best, Ryan, POM, Heaslip and SOB are all of an age profile where they've a strong chance of holding onto their jersey unless someone comes in over the next 2 years and takes it off them. POC will be 35 but I definitely wouldn't rule him out as still being in our test side. Mike Ross is the most likely casualty but, again, he'll be 35 which is not too old whatsoever for a tighthead. You'd have to think, anyone that is going to take a test jersey will need to be playing regularly at HEC level before doing that. With that in mind, we'll need to see someone like Furlong or Moore take the Leinster jersey off Ross in 2 years and I'm not sure how likely that is. Afoa has another 2 years on his contract in Ulster at which point Fitzpatrick and Macklin can battle it out.

I think the majority of the changes will be behind the pack through necessity in the coming seasons. Scrum half and both centre positions are very up in the air currently. We could well see someone else break through in the back three although we've currently Lions available to play in the back three so someone will have their work cut out for them there. At 9, people like McGrath have Reddan and Boss both with 2 year contracts to run. He'll get some game time but unless his rise is meteoric, I can't see him being involved. I can see 12 being the real problem spot. There's some talent coming through in the form of Marshall but he hasn't managed a sustained run to really judge whether he has the required ability at top level. D'Arcy and Wallace are on the wind down. JJ Hanrahan is well beyond Marshall in terms of demonstrated ability and Munster have signed a player to take the 12 jersey for next season.

I can see something like this:

15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. Earls
12. AN Other
11. Zebo
10. Sexton
9. Murray
8. Heaslip
7. POM
6. SOB
5. POC
4. Ryan
3. Ross
2. Best
1. Healy

16. Strauss
17. McAllister
18. Furlong
19. Toner
20. Ryan
21. Reddan
22. Jackson
23. Payne

Honourable mentions to Mick Kearney, Eoin Griffin and Tiernan O'Halloran who could well be part of the squad but I can't see Connacht's profile within the Irish team changing much any time soon.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 26-05-2012 11:29am

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Agree Re Marshall. Why dya think Spence has lost his form this year? Injury

Had high hopes for him last year

He is a lot better at 13 than at 12 but most of his gametime this season came at 12 which wasn't a good thing for him

Fishooks12 · 26-05-2012 11:39am

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

Really? I've always thought Marshall is a really good prospect. I could see him and Murray rotating in the same way Boss and Reddan do, one with a bigger physical presence, the other with a snappier pass.

Marshall won't be far off 30 by the time of the next world cup if I'm not mistaken

Could see the likes of McGrath and a few others stealing a march on him by then

TheKeenMachine · 26-05-2012 12:01pm

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Marshall won't be far off 30 by the time of the next world cup if I'm not mistaken

Could see the likes of McGrath and a few others stealing a march on him by then

Oh, I thought he was younger than that. In that case, yes, Cooney,McGrath etc. may all be ahead of him

profitius · 26-05-2012 1:11pm

GerM wrote: »

I can see something like this:

15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. Earls
12. AN Other
11. Zebo
10. Sexton
9. Murray
8. Heaslip
7. POM
6. SOB
5. POC
4. Ryan
3. Ross
2. Best
1. Healy

16. Strauss
17. McAllister
18. Furlong
19. Toner
20. Ryan
21. Reddan
22. Jackson
23. Payne

Honourable mentions to Mick Kearney, Eoin Griffin and Tiernan O'Halloran who could well be part of the squad but I can't see Connacht's profile within the Irish team changing much any time soon.

I hope there'll be more changes than that. Its almost the same team as now but 3 years older.

One of Martin Moore and Furlong might have to move to another province. Leinster also have Jack O'Connell and now Michael Bent from NZ so theres a bit of a queue forming there.

Eoin Griffin is another player I left out earlier. If he can stay clear of injuries hes in with a good chance.

Do you rate Jackson higher than Madigan?

.ak · 26-05-2012 1:45pm

My (purely selfish) dream-team. Not considering any likely outcomes, just who I'd like to see...

15. R. Kearney
14. T. Bowe
14. D. Cave
12. L. Fitzgerald
11. K. Earls
10. J. Sexton
09. Murray/Cooney/McGrath
08. Heaslip
07. SOB
06. Fez/POM (if Fez is still standing..)
05. Touhy
04. Ryan
03. ???
02. Strauss/Best (toin coss)
01. Healy

(I think we'll have 23 man squads by 2015)

16. Cronin/Strauss
17. Court/Kilcoyne
18. Furlong
19. Toner
20. Ryan
21. Murray/Cooney/McGrath
22. Jackson/Madigan
23. D. Kearney/McFadden/Layden

Lots of potential options. 23 is potentially hardest and totally depends on who's fit in the starting 15. Scrum-half is a tough choice too... If Murray doesn't improve his tempo and pace game within the next few seasons I'd imagine the next manager won't keep him on. Having said that, he could become a Boss-esque SH that might play well with a Jackson type of OH.

Speaking of which I think currently Madigan is the better OH, but Jackson might come along nicely. The big issue for me is the jack the IRFU are holding Jackson back for Ulster's pre-season and thus missing out on the 20s RWC. If Ulster don't keep their momentum going you could see Jackson taking a step backwards.

Fishooks12 · 26-05-2012 1:48pm

I'm surprised there is even a discussion in relation to Jackson and Madigan

Madigan is head and shoulders a better player at the moment and probably has more potential .

.ak · 26-05-2012 1:52pm

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I'm surprised there is even a discussion in relation to Jackson and Madigan

Madigan is head and shoulders a better player at the moment and probably has more potential .

I'd agree, but the reason Jackson will be on the scene is I think he's been groomed for the position by the IRFU.

shuffol · 26-05-2012 2:52pm

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I'm surprised there is even a discussion in relation to Jackson and Madigan

Madigan is head and shoulders a better player at the moment and probably has more potential .

Wouldnt say there's that much between them and Jackson is about 3 yrs younger. Jackson had a poor game last weekend but 3 weeks beforehand I thought he outplayed Sexton at Ravenhill. I'd rate their passing as roughly equal but Jackson as a more natural outhalf. Madigan has the X factor but Jackson's no slouch in that department either. http://youtu.be/hggyb1kbCt4

bilston · 26-05-2012 6:19pm

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I'm surprised there is even a discussion in relation to Jackson and Madigan

Madigan is head and shoulders a better player at the moment and probably has more potential .

I wouldn't be judging Jackson solely on last week. In saying Madigan is clearly ahead of him, but to me Jackson looks a more natural 10 but look I see more of Jackson than I see of Madigan so I could be wrong on that. Having said that Jackson probably has more chance of becoming Sexton's back up than Madigan by virtue of the fact that Madigan is Sexton's back up at Leinster...simply because Jackson will get more game time at will be able to develop more...Leinster fans won't like it but for Madigan to fulfil his potential he'll need to move otherwise he'll end up like Fergus McFadden or Donnacha Ryan.

Regards Spence he just hasn't kicked on that much season, his skillset still needs a lot of work, he has been used a lot at 12 which probably hasn't helped him. To be honest he just isn't as good a 13 as Cave but probably isn't good enough at 12, especially with Farrell and Marshall coming through. I wouldn't be surprised to see Spence move out to the wing. In saying all that he's an impressive runner and I wouldn't rule him out of future Irish honours but he has a bit to go.

As for Luke Marshall it's true he hasn't kicked as much this season but he's been injured for most of it. He's a fine player and it's a brave call to say JJ is well ahead of him...a very brave call the more I think about it!

Finally on Paul Marshall, he's great coming off the bench, he can change a game with his pace and awareness but I doubt he could control a test match from the get go.

As I said before I expect minimal changes between now and 2015. I don't expect the front row to change, Henderson could threaten the second row, the back row may stay the same but we at least have options, I'd hope McGrath lives up to his potential at 9, it's hard to see Sexton displaced in the next 3 years, the midfield is interesting but I can see BOD carrying on at 12, the back three could remain Bowe, Kearney and Earls but maybe Conway, Gilroy or Zebo could come into the equation. It will be much of a muchness for the next wee while.

27-05-2012 2:41pm

PJ is going to be a superstar.

He's an absolutely classic 10, whereas Madigan is a new age 10,. We'll see them both in green.

siltirocker · 28-05-2012 3:15am

1. Healy
2. Best, Cronin & Strauss
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Trimble/Fitzgerald
12. D'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. A.N Other from above
17. Loughney
18. Toner
19. POM
20. Reddan
21. Madigan
22. Earls

What I imagine Kidney will play if he's still the main man. Nothing at all like what I would pick but sure. . .

mallachyrivers · 28-05-2012 3:40am

nooner09 wrote: »

"Are you. honestly talking about School's Junior Cup players being in with a good chance of being starting international locks in 4 years? The majority of them won't even be locks in 4 years when other players have hit their growth spurt."

Yes. If they can handle Donnybrook in March, they'll be more than good enough for Kingsholm or Twickenham in October 2015.

If only dk could see that.

But anyway guys, my 2011 team follows. Because, like, we should be building the 2015 team today. It might not beat the ozzies but who in all honesty can and it's totally about squad development for 2015 and it couldn't do any worse than dk and his head in the sand selection.:eek:

Take off the blinkers, dec k.

15: Rob Kearney
14: Andrew Conway
13: Brendan Macken
12: Eoin O'Malley
11: Fionn Carr
10: Sexto
9: Luke McGrath

1: Cian Healy
2: Best
3: Jamie Hagan
4: Steven Ferris ( get a few games here before the knees pack it in )
5: Devin Toner
6: Sean O'Brien
7: Dominic Ryan
8: Jamie H CAPTAIN

Subs: Leo Cullen ( experienced head if game is tight, ferris can move into back row) ROG ( see before ) Jennings, M Ross, Cronin, Conor Murray, Tommy Bowe ( tough but his form just isn't up to it guys and Trimble is totally unlucky to lose out entirely. POC goes on too many spasmo charges, slowing the team down so only has self to blame for missing out.

How can you possibly say a schools player would be more than good enough for a world cup in four years?

Quint2010 · 28-05-2012 12:42pm

mallachyrivers wrote: »

How can you possibly say a schools player would be more than good enough for a world cup in four years?

How can you say that there would not be someone good enough? There is some fantastic talent coming thru the schools ranks at the moment-particularly Leinster. The Byrne twins, Brewer, Leavy and O'Shea (from Munster) are all players with outstanding talent.

bilston · 28-05-2012 1:02pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

How can you say that there would not be someone good enough? There is some fantastic talent coming thru the schools ranks at the moment-particularly Leinster. The Byrne twins, Brewer, Leavy and O'Shea (from Munster) are all players with outstanding talent.

They may be outstanding schoolboys Quint but they have a long journey ahead of them, hopefully some of them make it but they won't all do it.

Schools Rugby
U18 International Schools/Youth Rugby
Club U20 Rugby
Provincial U20 rugby
International U20 rugby
AIL rugby
Provincial A rugby
Pro 12 rugby
Irish Wolfhounds Rugby
Heineken Cup Rugby
Ireland

Tox56 · 28-05-2012 1:08pm

You can get people like Kevin McLaughlin too, who come all the way through the ranks, all the way up to Heineken Cup level rugby, but can't fully make it to international rugby.

He has just got a call up so I probably shouldn't be too dismissive, but I very much doubt he is the sort of player who will become a regular International.

The step up from schools, as said above, is huge. Making it to provincial level is an achievement, but international level is a whole new ball game.

profitius · 28-05-2012 1:58pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

How can you say that there would not be someone good enough? There is some fantastic talent coming thru the schools ranks at the moment-particularly Leinster. The Byrne twins, Brewer, Leavy and O'Shea (from Munster) are all players with outstanding talent.

They won't all live up to their potential. For instance you could ask will the Byrne twins have the same impact against players or will Leavy have the same workrate when he piles on the weight.

The future backs are easier to spot than the future forwards.

totallegend · 28-05-2012 2:08pm

Tox56 wrote: »

You can get people like Kevin McLaughlin too, who come all the way through the ranks, all the way up to Heineken Cup level rugby, but can't fully make it to international rugby.

He has just got a call up so I probably shouldn't be too dismissive, but I very much doubt he is the sort of player who will become a regular International.

The step up from schools, as said above, is huge. Making it to provincial level is an achievement, but international level is a whole new ball game.

No, you shouldn't be so dismissive because McLaughlin has never been given a chance for Ireland.

He has started once, against Italy in the 2010 Six Nations, and played quite well in a poor team performance. He got a derisory sub appearance in the World Cup warm-ups against Scotland while Kidney was allegedly deliberating over his squad (when he obviously had already decided on Ryan).

He can't make it to international rugby because the coach won't pick him and because he's competing against possibly the best #6 we've ever had. Not his fault.

Tox56 · 28-05-2012 2:12pm

totallegend wrote: »

Tox56 wrote: »

You can get people like Kevin McLaughlin too, who come all the way through the ranks, all the way up to Heineken Cup level rugby, but can't fully make it to international rugby.

He has just got a call up so I probably shouldn't be too dismissive, but I very much doubt he is the sort of player who will become a regular International.

The step up from schools, as said above, is huge. Making it to provincial level is an achievement, but international level is a whole new ball game.

No, you shouldn't be so dismissive because McLaughlin has never been given a chance for Ireland.

He has started once, against Italy in the 2010 Six Nations, and played quite well in a poor team performance. He got a derisory sub appearance in the World Cup warm-ups against Scotland while Kidney was allegedly deliberating over his squad (when he obviously had already decided on Ryan).

He can't make it to international rugby because the coach won't pick him and because he's competing against possibly the best #6 we've ever had. Not his fault.

I'm not trying to make out it's his fault, but when you are a blindside competing against the likes of Ferris and SOB, you are unlikely to be a regular intenational. that could also be the case for kids coming out of school, you need to be very very good to be international standard

GerM · 28-05-2012 2:14pm

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I'm surprised there is even a discussion in relation to Jackson and Madigan

Madigan is head and shoulders a better player at the moment and probably has more potential .

Not an unlikely discussion at all. Madigan is currently better, undoubtedly. However, Jackson has a lot of talent and ability based on what he's shown thus far. He has 3 years to develop from that age so I'm thinking the scope for his development is greater than Madigan who is 23 with 50 caps. Jackson also has the most important thing which is the likelihood of being a starting out half for his side. He could get 75 starts for Ulster between now and the next WC in all competitions whilst it's not unlikely that Madigan will spend the next few years as Leinster's second choice behind Sexton getting starts only in the Pro12 or in the event of injury. Also, Jackson's game is more suited to the general conservatism of test rugby. Madigan is an excellent talent but coaches will, more often than not, go for a consistent, steady player at 10 over a player who likes to fling it around.

Fireball07 · 28-05-2012 3:53pm

I'll have a go...obviously in pure speculation, I would be shocked if anybody's team was any more than 70% correct.

15. Rob Kearney
14. Tommy Bowe
13. Eoin Griffin
12. JJ Hanrahan
11. Keith Earls
10. Jonathan Sexton
9. Conor Murray

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best
3. Jamie Hagan (I actually have no idea who will step up but surely someone will)
4. Ian Henderson
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Sean O'Brien
7. Peter O'Mahony
8. Jamie Heaslip

16. Mike Sherry
17. Dave Kilcoyne
18. Mike Ross
19. Donncha Ryan
20. Dominic Ryan
21. Luke McGrath
22. Ian Madigan/Paddy Jackson
23. Luke Fitzgerald/Andrew Conway/Simon Zebo

I'm not sure Ferris will make it...Griffin is the best young 13 in Ireland imo. Hanrahan is only in because of a real dearth at 12. Marshall is the other player that comes to mind, but I have no idea whether he has the ability to step up, this should have been his breakthrough year. Madigan at 12 is another option which I wouldn't be surprised to see.

Don't think BOD will make it, I think he'll finish with a Lions tour, but POC might, but again it's injury-dependent.

lynchy101 · 28-05-2012 5:01pm

MungBean wrote: »

Earls wont be there, his place will be taken in the next two years. Theres too many excellent wingers coming through. Surprised you made no mention of Fionn Carr.

Fionn Carr :pac:

Are you serious?

mogwai81 · 29-07-2012 10:58am

15. Rob Kearney
14. Craig Gilroy
13. Eoin Griffin
12. Chris Farrell
11. Simon Zebo
10. Jonathan Sexton
9. Conor Murray
8. Jamie Heaslip
7. Dominic Ryan
6. Sean O'Brien
5. Donnacha Ryan
4. Iain Henderson
3. Tadhg Furlong
2. Sean Cronin
1. Cian Healy

bilston · 29-07-2012 1:14pm

mogwai81 wrote: »

15. Rob Kearney
14. Craig Gilroy
13. Eoin Griffin
12. Chris Farrell
11. Simon Zebo
10. Jonathan Sexton
9. Conor Murray
8. Jamie Heaslip
7. Dominic Ryan
6. Sean O'Brien
5. Donnacha Ryan
4. Iain Henderson
3. Tadhg Furlong
2. Sean Cronin
1. Cian Healy

Tommy Bowe? Rory Best? Stephen Ferris? Keith Earls?

It's all a game of opinions of course but I expect those guys to be there still.

rugbyman2015 · 29-07-2012 1:22pm

Genuinely think some terrier from the schools cup between 2012 and 2015 could steal the show and get into the squad if we had an adventurous coach. Dan Leavy/Harrison anyone? Wouldn't mind seeing Hanrahan break into the Munster fold now too after his Rockwell and U20's exploits

ormond lad · 29-07-2012 5:04pm

rugbyman2015 wrote: »

Genuinely think some terrier from the schools cup/youths leagues between 2012 and 2015 could steal the show and might get into the squad if we had an adventurous coach. Dan Leavy/Harrison anyone? Wouldn't mind seeing Hanrahan break into the Munster fold now too after his Rockwell and U20's exploits

FYP.
JJ should get some gametime this season as ROG is 35 and wont be going on for much longer and Keatley has been fairly so-so in a munster jersey.
Leinster have dominated underage, due to standards of coaching as well as sheer numbers, the past few seasons so should have the majority of players in irish squads for the next few years

RoundBox11 · 29-07-2012 7:04pm

I can't see a whole lot of changes between now and then tbh. Its only 3 years away and if you take away ROG/BOD/POC/DOC/Darce/Wallace the average age of the squad is pretty young.

I can see it being:

15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. Earls
12. Marshall
11. Gilroy
10. Sexton
9. Murray

8. Heaslip
7. O'Brien
6. Ferris
5. Ryan
4. Henderson (bit of a long shot but if he can break into the ulster team soon who knows)
3. Fitzpatrick
2. Best
1. Healy

16. Strauss
17. McGrath
18. Moore
19. Tuohy
20. POM
21. Marmion (Really have no idea tho!)
22. Madigan
23. D. Kearney

Average age = 26.35

Oldest player = Rory Best (33)

ComeOnYou BoysInBlue · 29-07-2012 7:33pm

My 23:

1. Cian Healy
2. Cronin/Strauss (Have to wait and see who will play better rugby in the next few years)
3. Jamie Hagan
4. Iain Henderson
5. Devin Toner/Tuohy
6. Stephen Ferris
7. Dominic Ryan
8. Seán O'Brien
9. Luke McGrath/Marmion (All depending on game time etc)
10. Johnathan Sexton/ Ian Madigan
11. Luke Fitzgerald
12. Fergus McFadden/Harrison Brewer/Luke Marshall
13. Eoin O'Malley/Darren Cave
14. Tommy Bowe/ Craig Gilroy/Dave Kearney
15. Rob Kearney

Bench:
16. Seán Cronin/Richardt Strauss
17. Jack McGrath
18. Fitzpatrick
19. Ian Nagle/Donnacha Ryan
20. Tommy O'Donnell
21. Marmion/Murray (If Murray's form picks up)
22. Johnathan Sexton/Ian Madigan/ JJ Hanrahan
23. Andrew Conway/ McFadden/ Gilroy/Cave/Kearney

I havent got time to think my squad through completely but I will give my reasons.
Front Row: Healy is a definite at prop. McGrath is a great prospect so I think with time he can become an international. Cronin and Strauss are our best hookers. If Best is still in great form by that age he will make it but Cronin and Strauss are realistically our best hookers. They will compete with each other at Leinster for places which will make them better players. Hagan and Fitzpatrick appear to be our only half decent tight heads. The next few years should give them enough experience to become internationals (hopefully).
Second Row: If Henderson is given time with Ulster he can be great. Toner and Tuohy still have some work to put in
Back Row: Dominic Ryan and O'Donnell are our only true opensides. They will both be worldclass in time. If Kidney is in charge until 2015, O'Brien will continue to play openside and mess us up. O'Brien is a worldclass 8 and Fez is a given at 6.
Scrum Half: Hopefully Murray's form picks up and he can be a quality player. If not, McGrath and Marmion both need game time so they can develop over the coming years. Realistically, we have no quality, young scrum halves with a lot of game time.
Out Half: Sexton and Madigan are our No.1 and No.2 at the moment. Madigan needs more game time. With these two out halves we dont really need Hanrahan. I want Hanrahan to get game time with a provence that will allow him to play well. Hopefully he will move to Ulster or abroad to get game time so he can become an international.
Centres: O'Malley should take over for Drico. If Kidney is still in charge until 2015, he will continue to play Earls at centre, who shouldn't be playing rugby at all as he is useless. Griffen is a good prospect also but with this new guy playing for Connacht he wont get much game time. I completely forgot to mention Cave. I think he is brilliant and if he gets a good amount of game time over the next year he can grow to be a lion. Still I feel O'Malley can do a better job at centre. I hope that when D'Arcy leaves McFadden should get game time at first centre as he has the potential to be world class. Harrison Brewer will be in 6th year next year and will have little or no game time for Leinster when the world cup arrives in 2015. I think he can be Ireland's next superstar. Marshall will also be a superstar but he needs more exposure at club level. Has bags of talent
Wings: Fitzgerald and Bowe are definite starters. Gilroy will push Tommy at Ulster as he will be getting older. Have much more wings but wont get into them. Again forgot about Dave Kearney. I have high hopes for him but it may be a bit of a long shot, however.
Fullback: Rob Kearney. Uncontested as usual
Coach: Joe Schmidt or Conor O'Shea. They will allow us to play an expansive game. Maybe Schmidt head coach and he can work with O'Shea with the backs??? Unlikely Kidney will stay, hope he gets sacked after this 6 Nations. I dont want Kidney to step down as it will show that he done it by his own accord and everyone will congradulate him on a wonderful career. I pray he gets sacked.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 29-07-2012 8:41pm

I think we've another re-reg on our hands.

leftleg · 29-07-2012 8:58pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I think we've another re-reg on our hands.

He's the blue version of you; cpt blueberry maybe

Your irish 22 for the 2015 rugby world cup

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