Your irish 22 for the 2015 rugby world cup

TheKeenMachine

bamboozle wrote: »

:eek:

Obviously it sounds strange but the guy will be our enforcer in the engine room at that stage and a guaranteed starter.

irishbucsfan

If POC is going to go to the next world cup then I don't see any reason why he wouldn't be made captain tbh

.ak

Next one's a ban Leinsterr.

TheKeenMachine

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If POC is going to go to the next world cup then I don't see any reason why he wouldn't be made captain tbh

There's no guarantee he will be though. I think the IRFU would rather have someone they know will be there captain us.

Ciaran-Irl

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

There's no guarantee he will be though. I think the IRFU would rather have someone they know will be there captain us.

There isn't any player that they can nominate as captain now with any kind of guarantee that he will be there in 4 year's time. O'Connell is as likely as anyone. He has had back injuries and knee injuries that could recur, but no more so than tons of players have had over the years.

bamboozle

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

Obviously it sounds strange but the guy will be our enforcer in the engine room at that stage and a guaranteed starter.

you're right, it does sound strange.

he'll be 32 next world cup, Henderson, Kearney, Beirne, Touhy, Tonar, Denton etc will be in the reckoning for a 2nd row berth.

You dont have to be an enforcer to be captain. I'd expect the next captain after BOD to be POC, Best, Heaslip or Sexton.

In saying all that Ryans form has been excellent.

bilston

bamboozle wrote: »

you're right, it does sound strange.

he'll be 32 next world cup, Henderson, Kearney, Beirne, Touhy, Tonar, Denton etc will be in the reckoning for a 2nd row berth.

You dont have to be an enforcer to be captain. I'd expect the next captain after BOD to be POC, Best, Heaslip or Sexton.

In saying all that Ryan form has been excellent.

Who is Denton?

Leinsterr

bilston wrote: »

bamboozle wrote: »

you're right, it does sound strange.

he'll be 32 next world cup, Henderson, Kearney, Beirne, Touhy, Tonar, Denton etc will be in the reckoning for a 2nd row berth.

You dont have to be an enforcer to be captain. I'd expect the next captain after BOD to be POC, Best, Heaslip or Sexton.

In saying all that Ryan form has been excellent.

Who is Denton?

This new 22 year old English born Irish eligible 2nd row who just moved to Leinster this year

bilston

Leinsterr wrote: »

This new 22 year old English born Irish eligible 2nd row who just moved to Leinster this year

Ta

danthefan

The next captain could depend on who is coach when BOD retires. Kidney has demonstrated how short term a view he takes so I reckon it would be POC by default in that case. He is a decent captain though so it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Personally I'd much prefer someone who'll definitely be going to the next RWC. You couldn't guarantee POC will do that.

CatFromHue

If we have Sexton, Heaslip, Best, and POC all playing at the next RWC does it matter who's Captain?

When there is a core group of Senior experienced and switched on players it helps much more than having one amazing Captain.

England in 2003 had Johnson as Captain but also had Vickery, Dallaglio, Back, Hill, Grenwood, Dawson, and Catt in the squad as well. The leadership that comes through from a group like that would do wonders for any team.

totallegend

OK, it's almost a year since the thread was started, thought it might be worthwhile to see who the winners and losers over the last year have been.

Below is Chupacabra's team from the first post in September 2011:

15. Felix Jones - definite loser; injuries aside, his form was poor last season and the notion that he'll be ahead of Kearney in 2015 is not realistic
14. Andrew Conway - loser; injuries have kept coming and Zebo, Kearney and Gilroy have staked their claims
13. Nevin Spence - loser; another to suffer repeat injuries but needs to make the most of Paddy Wallace's retirement when it happens.
12. Fergus McFadden - loser, seems not to be trusted by either Schmidt or Kidney in the 12 jersey.
11. Keith Earls - winner; performances on the wing have been good and his showings at 13, while not spectacular, have disproved some of the fears about him
10. Jonathan Sexton - winner, keeps improving
9. Luke McGrath - loser, failure to dislodge Marmion for the U20s has dampened the hype
8. Jamie Heaslip (c) - winner, fewer barnstorming runs but overall contribution has been massive
7. Dominic Ryan - loser, another to suffer injuries at inopportune times and Kevin McLaughlin & POM have surged ahead.
6. Sean O'Brien - winner, showing his class as a potential world-beating 7.
5. Dan Tuohy - winner, great season for Ulster, hopefully not tainted by the debacle in NZ.
4. Ian Nagle - loser, fell behind Dave Foley and Billy Holland in the back-up pecking order for Munster
3. Jamie Hagan - loser, may be lack of fitness but not trusted by Leinster
2. Richard Strauss - winner, held off the challenge of Cronin with ease
1. Cian Healy - winner, best LH by a country mile and still only 24

16. Sean Cronin - loser, his chances in 2015 will depend on Best being retired
17. Jack O'Connell - no change; needs more game time this season
18. Stewart Maguire - loser, move to Connacht has not paid off
19. Dave O'Callaghan - no change, needs more game time
20. Rhys Ruddock - loser, didn't really impress last season
21. Conor Murray - no change, age is on his side but needs to up his game
22. JJ Hanrahan - biggest winner of them all?
23. Eoin Griffin - realistically needs to leave Connacht to make the RWC.

So I think the above shows the risks in trying to predict these things based on what might happen in the next couple of years; most of those tipped in the OP have gone backwards in the last 12 months...

tolosenc

Healy, Strauss, Ryan, O'Brien, Heaslip, Sexton, Bowe and Kearney are the only ones who are way ahead in their positions (assumong Best is gone by then). In other positions, there are favourites with doubts over whether they'll make it (POC, Ferris), again others where there is a player but he could be easily usurped (Murray, Earls[13]), and spots like 3, 12, and 11 which are wide open.

Players that'll almost certainly be gone: Ross, DOC, Reddan, Boss, ROG, D'Arcy, BOD.

It'll be interesting. Hopefully young guys like Marmion, McGrath, Madigan, Hanrahan, Griffin, Henderson, etc. get a proper go at Ireland beginning not more than a year from now - the Lions tour is a perfect place to start them off with a view to inclusion in a full squad that autumn. There are a few that merit inclusion this autumn and during the 6N (Madigan in particular), but there's no rush on a few of them.

Podge_irl

Best will have only just turned 33 at the next RWC - I see no reason to assume he won't make it.

danthefan

Felix Jones. Oh dear.

Tox56

totallegend wrote: »

...

So I think the above shows the risks in trying to predict these things based on what might happen in the next couple of years; most of those tipped in the OP have gone backwards in the last 12 months...

Maybe, but at the same time many of those "losers" have plenty of time to improve and despite going backwards (or simply not progressing) this are still in with a chance of playing in 2015.

Guys like Dom Ryan, Hagan, Conway and possibly Ruddock haven't had breakthrough seasons (injury did play a part for a few) and would technically be classed as "losers" based on the last 12 months alone, but I still think they are well placed to kick on and hopefully be involved by 2015.

irishbucsfan

I had James McKinney is my original XXIII!?

The rest of it wasn't so bad. But I dunno what I was thinking there.

Jamie Hagan has been the biggest loser since this thread started IMO. He really failed to live up to the hype that was generated about him out west. I'd say Madigan was the biggest winner.

Fireball07

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I had James McKinney is my original XXIII!?

The rest of it wasn't so bad. But I dunno what I was thinking there.

Jamie Hagan has been the biggest loser since this thread started IMO. He really failed to live up to the hype that was generated about him out west. I'd say Madigan was the biggest winner.

You had Sykes as a starter


And I'd be shocked if Carr is anywhere near the starting XV. Decent player but not top class.

profitius

profitius wrote: »

I don't know what the team will be (injuries, retirements etc) but the squad will be much stronger than it is now. Skill level will be much higher and the average will be lower.

We'll have plenty of options at prop and hooker. There'll be loads of backrows and plenty of options at center and half backs. There's loads of young back 3 players around now too. Locks seem to be the area where we could be a little short but theres a few promising players who can play there.

Some players I've seen who look like they'll get Irish caps in the not too distant future include:
Tiernan O'Halloran, JJ Hanrahan, Luke Marshall, Conway, Tadhg Furlong, POM, Nagle, Sherry, Spence, Gilroy, Griffen, Dom Ryan, Madigan, Paddy McAllister.

There are others too that are highly rated like Luke McGrath but I can't comment until I see them myself.

Heres my first post. I stand by most of those picks but I'm not sure about Nagle. I see he was on most peoples selection a year ago. What a difference a year makes! He still has the talent to make it.

If I had to choose a few more players to be capped in the not too distant future I'd say Henderson, Jackson, Chris Farrell, Dave kearney, Martin Moore, Jack McGrath, Shane Layden and no doubt there'll be a another few names added to the list next year.

PTH2009

could BOD still be on the Squad, he will be only 36 and if he stays injury clear. It could be his last ever rugby tournment.

Id say ROG, DOC, Reddan will deff be retired by then.

TheKeenMachine

PTH2009 wrote: »

could BOD still be on the Squad, he will be only 36 and if he stays injury clear. It could be his last ever rugby tournment.

Id say ROG, DOC, Reddan will deff be retired by then.

I'd love to see him have a WC victory (!) as a fitting career swansong, but I think he's been implying he'll bow out after the Lions next summer.

johne30

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

I'd love to see him have a WC victory (!) as a fitting career swansong, but I think he's been implying he'll bow out after the Lions next summer.

i think we should not get to carried away about captains and formations for 2015 . first we need to start getting consistent and develop our own irish style of rugby that every player understands. and we just have to transfer the provincal success to test level. we are still 3 seasons out from it so getting organised is more important right now.

totallegend

It's interesting that most people seem to think POC is in with a good chance of the 2015 RWC despite his terrible run of injuries in the last two year, but Reddan is being written off despite being a year younger than POC and no major injuries.

And Mike Ross? Same age as POC but more importantly, we have no proven replacement for him; I think there is a very good chance that Ross will be going to RWC. 35 is not ancient for a prop...

irishbucsfan

totallegend wrote: »

It's interesting that most people seem to think POC is in with a good chance of the 2015 RWC despite his terrible run of injuries in the last two year, but Reddan is being written off despite being a year younger than POC and no major injuries.

And Mike Ross? Same age as POC but more importantly, we have no proven replacement for him; I think there is a very good chance that Ross will be going to RWC. 35 is not ancient for a prop...

1. Reddan is a scrum half. And not exactly a world class one. If he loses pace and endurance it will drastically effect his performance. Not a very good comparison to Paul O'Connell whose play is affected much less directly by those things and who is world class.

2. You have a point on Ross. He could make it. He doesn't have a huge amount of miles on the clock either. Although he may be on the bench I guess.

totallegend

irishbucsfan wrote: »

1. Reddan is a scrum half. And not exactly a world class one. If he loses pace and endurance it will drastically effect his performance. Not a very good comparison to Paul O'Connell whose play is affected much less directly by those things and who is world class.

2. You have a point on Ross. He could make it. He doesn't have a huge amount of miles on the clock either. Although he may be on the bench I guess.

Whether Reddan is needed or not depends on who comes through to replace him. We have good quality second-rows available right now to replace O'Connell, whereas we're pinning our hopes on 20 year olds to replace Reddan.
I don't know if he will be around or still be in the frame for selection, but my point was that he's a year younger than O'Connell and in better shape now. I suppose people have an emotional tie to O'Connell that they don't have to Reddan.

And I would have thought that a second-row is far more dependent on his physical well-being than a scrum-half.

bilston

Reddan will be 34 in 2015 so I would be reasonably confident that he'll still be playing so that being the case it would be wrong to rule him out. A lot depends on whether any of McGrath, Marmion or Cooney reach test standard. You'd hope and expect at least one of them will I suppose. Murray is more or less a certainty for 2015 and then there is O'Leary and Marshall, I don't think anyone could say for certain that either of them will be ahead of Reddan in 2015.

.ak

Digging up the older posts only goes to show how likely the next RWC squad will be similiar to the 2011 squad. I'd be very surprised to see more than 6 changes tbh. I have a feeling that Reddan will still be there, as a bench option atleast. Whilst POC won't be that old in lock years he's picking up injuries like it's fashionable at the moment, I can't see him in starting shape come 2015. With that in mind I'd hazard a guess at....

01. C. Healy
02. R. Strauss
03. ???
04. D. Ryan
05. D. Touhy
06. K. McLoughlin
07. S. O'Brien
08. J. Heaslip
09. J. Cooney
10. J. Sexton
11. K. Earls
12. B. O'Driscoll
13. D. Cave
14. T. Bowe
15. R. Kearney

16. R. Best
17. Kilcoyne
18. M. Moore
19. D. Toner
20. I. Henderson
21. E. Reddan
22. I. Madigan
23. L. Fitzgerald


Couple of notes. I think we'll be playing 23 man squads by then. Fingers crossed. In regards to props I'm stabbing in the dark here, I'm fairly uneducated in the frontrow arts so I'm basing all of this on what I've seen from the a sides last season. In regards to locks whilst I know Touhy hardly set the world on fire in NZ he wasn't exactly caught out either. A couple of Italy or Scotland games and he'll mould himself into that international standard no doubt.

Back row is a little Leinster heavy, but if Kevin continues on his road I can see him becoming that niggily type of 6 which will become imperative to SOB's explosive, abrasive style. Can't see Jamie being moved from 8, nothing to suggest otherwise anyhow. Maybe Conan will push him a little over the next few years.

In the halfbacks I've picked Cooney. For me he's the most likely to translate into a solid international scrumhalf. He's got plenty to work on, but out of all the 'hopefuls' he's most likely to get senior exposure this year. Can't see Sexton being moved either.

I'm still not sold on Earls as a centre, no matter how much he wants to sell it to me. For me he's one of the best wingers this country as ever produced, if only he'd hone that skill... Bowe is more than likely to still be a starter, but if there's any issues with him I'd have Fitzgerald at 14 and upgrade JJ to the 23 shirt. Fitzgerald however is far too versatile so ends up on the bench if Bowe is fit.

Centres... Just because of BOD's superhuman abilities I wouldn't be surprised to see him at 12, being an anchor for an alltogether small backline to work around. Cave is still the best like-for-like replacement I've seen for 13, and nothing has changed my mind on that within the last 12 months.

Full back? Who else but Rob Kearney. He'll be 29 with still plenty of pace and power. Other hopefuls may be Luke O'Dea (for versatility) or Dave Kearney.

The bench is as you would expect, the only thing I've really stuck my neck out for is Henderson. Three years to bulk up, and worm his way into the new squad. It'd mean POM not making it... but I'm just gambling here. POM is more than likely going to be heavily involved in the squad. Reddan will still have plenty of miles on the clock imo, and will be an invaluable impact sub with his experience. Madigan can double up across the backline, so it makes sense to have him there, but I wouldn't be surprised to see JJ there instead. Fitzgerald is someone I'd like to see start, but I have a feeling his versatility will kill that.

Whilst I'd love to see the likes of Gilroy, Conway, D. Kearney, Marshall (Luke and Ben!) McGrath break through the squad there's too much too suggest that won't happen, and we've already seen how these hopefuls rarely break through the hype.

ormond lad

.ak wrote: »

Digging up the older posts only goes to show how likely the next RWC squad will be similiar to the 2011 squad. I'd be very surprised to see more than 6 changes tbh. I have a feeling that Reddan will still be there, as a bench option atleast. Whilst POC won't be that old in lock years he's picking up injuries like it's fashionable at the moment, I can't see him in starting shape come 2015. With that in mind I'd hazard a guess at....

01. C. Healy
02. R. Strauss
03. ???
04. D. Ryan
05. D. Touhy
06. K. McLoughlin
07. S. O'Brien
08. J. Heaslip
09. J. Cooney
10. J. Sexton
11. K. Earls
12. B. O'Driscoll
13. D. Cave
14. T. Bowe
15. R. Kearney

16. R. Best
17. Kilcoyne
18. M. Moore
19. D. Toner
20. I. Henderson
21. E. Reddan
22. I. Madigan
23. L. Fitzgerald


Couple of notes. I think we'll be playing 23 man squads by then. Fingers crossed. In regards to props I'm stabbing in the dark here, I'm fairly uneducated in the frontrow arts so I'm basing all of this on what I've seen from the a sides last season. In regards to locks whilst I know Touhy hardly set the world on fire in NZ he wasn't exactly caught out either. A couple of Italy or Scotland games and he'll mould himself into that international standard no doubt.

Back row is a little Leinster heavy, but if Kevin continues on his road I can see him becoming that niggily type of 6 which will become imperative to SOB's explosive, abrasive style. Can't see Jamie being moved from 8, nothing to suggest otherwise anyhow. Maybe Conan will push him a little over the next few years.

In the halfbacks I've picked Cooney. For me he's the most likely to translate into a solid international scrumhalf. He's got plenty to work on, but out of all the 'hopefuls' he's most likely to get senior exposure this year. Can't see Sexton being moved either.

I'm still not sold on Earls as a centre, no matter how much he wants to sell it to me. For me he's one of the best wingers this country as ever produced, if only he'd hone that skill... Bowe is more than likely to still be a starter, but if there's any issues with him I'd have Fitzgerald at 14 and upgrade JJ to the 23 shirt. Fitzgerald however is far too versatile so ends up on the bench if Bowe is fit.

Centres... Just because of BOD's superhuman abilities I wouldn't be surprised to see him at 12, being an anchor for an alltogether small backline to work around. Cave is still the best like-for-like replacement I've seen for 13, and nothing has changed my mind on that within the last 12 months.

Full back? Who else but Rob Kearney. He'll be 29 with still plenty of pace and power. Other hopefuls may be Luke O'Dea (for versatility) or Dave Kearney.

The bench is as you would expect, the only thing I've really stuck my neck out for is Henderson. Three years to bulk up, and worm his way into the new squad. It'd mean POM not making it... but I'm just gambling here. POM is more than likely going to be heavily involved in the squad. Reddan will still have plenty of miles on the clock imo, and will be an invaluable impact sub with his experience. Madigan can double up across the backline, so it makes sense to have him there, but I wouldn't be surprised to see JJ there instead. Fitzgerald is someone I'd like to see start, but I have a feeling his versatility will kill that.

Whilst I'd love to see the likes of Gilroy, Conway, D. Kearney, Marshall (Luke and Ben!) McGrath break through the squad there's too much too suggest that won't happen, and we've already seen how these hopefuls rarely break through the hype.

Dont see McLaughlin keeping POM out of 23. If Nagle/Foley reach anywhere near their potential over next year or two i can see one of them maybe surpassing toner.
POM has played all over the back row and IMO will be involved in a 23
IMO Earls will be a centre for Ireland over next few years as he'll be playing there most of the time with Munster
Tadhg Furlong if he continues to improve will def be in with a very good shot of the 3 jersey

.ak

ormond lad wrote: »

Dont see McLaughlin keeping POM out of 23. If Nagle/Foley reach anywhere near their potential over next year or two i can see one of them maybe surpassing toner.
POM has played all over the back row and IMO will be involved in a 23
IMO Earls will be a centre for Ireland over next few years as he'll be playing there most of the time with Munster
Tadhg Furlong if he continues to improve will def be in with a very good shot of the 3 jersey

I was thinking of putting Furlong in there but it's just so hard to guess when it comes to props.

The Earls thing will be interesting over the next season or so, but I wouldn't bet on Penney splitting the work load between Casey and Keith.

We're not strong in the lock department, so I wouldn't be surprised to see Nagle surpassing Toner and you're probably right.

You're also right regarding POM, but I did say he'd more than likely be involved with the 23 somehow... I just thought I'd take a wild gamble and say Henderson evolves into some sort of Fez type beast that can cover lock and blindside.

bamboozle

bamboozle wrote: »

i've seen JJ Hanrahan play twice at AIL level and for the irish u20's, i'm not really getting the hype about him.

:eek: i'm eating my words big time after my above comment last year! 12 months on i'm looking forward to seeing Penny bring the likes of JJ, Kilcoyne, Condon, O'Dea and Butler through at Munster.

on the whole POC issue, i just hope he has an injury free season ahead, he's been a bit part player for 2 seasons now. Hope Penny has himself and Ryan focussed on lineouts, scrums & hitting rucks and mauls this season and leave the carrying to the back row and sherry.

danthefan

bamboozle wrote: »

:eek: i'm eating my words big time after my above comment last year! 12 months on i'm looking forward to seeing Penny bring the likes of JJ, Kilcoyne, Condon, O'Dea and Butler through at Munster.

on the whole POC issue, i just hope he has an injury free season ahead, he's been a bit part player for 2 seasons now. Hope Penny has himself and Ryan focussed on lineouts, scrums & hitting rucks and mauls this season and leave the carrying to the back row and sherry.

+1000000

He really needs to stop trying to make 12 or 15 carries a game.

tolosenc

.ak wrote: »

You're also right regarding POM, but I did say he'd more than likely be involved with the 23 somehow... I just thought I'd take a wild gamble and say Henderson evolves into some sort of Fez type beast that can cover lock and blindside.

TBH, I see that bench spot as being Henry's. SOB can cover 6 and 8, so if any of the back row goes, we have a 7 who can come on and continue, which is something that POM doesn't offer.

.ak

tolosenc wrote: »

TBH, I see that bench spot as being Henry's. SOB can cover 6 and 8, so if any of the back row goes, we have a 7 who can come on and continue, which is something that POM doesn't offer.

Ah, I actually completely forgot about Henry. Hmm, this changes EVERYTHING.

:P

danthefan

I don't see Henry as having a huge future as an international. Imo he doesn't have the quality, POM very possibly does (though hasn't got there yet).

bilston

danthefan wrote: »

I don't see Henry as having a huge future as an international. Imo he doesn't have the quality, POM very possibly does (though hasn't got there yet).

Yet Henry has just had an outstanding season and indeed it was BOD himself who said Henry was Ulster's key man prior to the HEC final. Look you may be right, but he deserves a shot at some stage and IMO deserved a chance more than POM in June based on the season just gone but there you go Kidney is Kidney and will do what he wants and will pick who he wants.

tolosenc

I could see POM being a starter more so than Henry, but if the current back 3 are still in their present fine form, I think Henry is the better bench option. Taking POM, SOB and Henry, SOB is the best in each of the 3 back row positions, so if Heaslip or Ferris get injured during the game, SOB should move to their spot, and it should be Henry to come in to the 7 spot vacated by SOB as he is a better 7 than POM. If Ferris' knee gives out by then, then POM at six with SOB and Heaslip at 7 and 8 is a better starting trio than any other combination of the 4.

Cpt_Blackbeard

tolosenc wrote: »

I could see POM being a starter more so than Henry, but if the current back 3 are still in their present fine form, I think Henry is the better bench option. Taking POM, SOB and Henry, SOB is the best in each of the 3 back row positions, so if Heaslip or Ferris get injured during the game, SOB should move to their spot, and it should be Henry to come in to the 7 spot vacated by SOB as he is a better 7 than POM. If Ferris' knee gives out by then, then POM at six with SOB and Heaslip at 7 and 8 is a better starting trio than any other combination of the 4.

I'd see it completely differently than that. POM currently, is head and shoulders our best bench option. He has played/is playing well all across the backrow and can slot in for any injured/tired player with minimal disruption to the team.

Higher

bamboozle wrote: »

:eek: i'm eating my words big time after my above comment last year! 12 months on i'm looking forward to seeing Penny bring the likes of JJ, Kilcoyne, Condon, O'Dea and Butler through at Munster.

on the whole POC issue, i just hope he has an injury free season ahead, he's been a bit part player for 2 seasons now. Hope Penny has himself and Ryan focussed on lineouts, scrums & hitting rucks and mauls this season and leave the carrying to the back row and sherry.

I do think people are getting carried away with JJ considering he hasnt even played at Rabo level yet.

totallegend

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I'd see it completely differently than that. POM currently, is head and shoulders our best bench option. He has played/is playing well all across the backrow and can slot in for any injured/tired player with minimal disruption to the team.

I think you're overstating his ability to play anywhere in the back row. While he may have appeared in all three positions, he has minimal top-level experience at 7 or 8. He may well turn out to the best bench option but it's not cut and dried yet, I really think we need to see how POM goes this season to make any sort of a decent judgement.

Henry is comfortable at 7 or 8, btw. With O'Brien now looking like our best 7 as well as our second-best 6 and probably our second-best 8, the bench player needs to be a 7 in case O'Brien is the one to get injured.

Higher

POM has largely unimpressed me at international level. Hes young fair enough but hes definitely nowhere close to starting in that backrow.

danthefan

totallegend wrote: »

I think you're overstating his ability to play anywhere in the back row. While he may have appeared in all three positions, he has minimal top-level experience at 7 or 8. He may well turn out to the best bench option but it's not cut and dried yet, I really think we need to see how POM goes this season to make any sort of a decent judgement.

Henry is comfortable at 7 or 8, btw. With O'Brien now looking like our best 7 as well as our second-best 6 and probably our second-best 8, the bench player needs to be a 7 in case O'Brien is the one to get injured.

The three incumbents are all far superior players to POM at the moment in their respective positions, it's not even close. Having said that I think POM is a decent bench option, probably the best we have.

Podge_irl

totallegend wrote: »

Henry is comfortable at 7 or 8, btw. With O'Brien now looking like our best 7 as well as our second-best 6 and probably our second-best 8, the bench player needs to be a 7 in case O'Brien is the one to get injured.

Henry is comfortable at 8 but never really looked like an international contender while playing there. I'd consider him purely a 7 except in an emergency at this point.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Higher wrote: »

I do think people are getting carried away with JJ considering he hasnt even played at Rabo level yet.

No, but he is just after finishing the season as an IRB Junior Player of the Year nominee which definitively makes him one of best young players in the world. Have we ever had a player nominated for that award before?

We've yet to see if he can make the step up, but that just allows for further excitement/hype until we are either proved right or wrong.

Podge_irl

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

No, but he is just after finishing the season as an IRB Junior Player of the Year nominee which definitively makes him one of best young players in the world. Have we ever had a player nominated for that award before?

Heaslip I think.

JJ hasn't played Rabo yet, but given the topic is for a squad 3 years from now and the excellent season he has had and the great potential he has shown I don't think it is premature to talk about him at all.

danthefan

Podge_irl wrote: »

Heaslip I think.

JJ hasn't played Rabo yet, but given the topic is for a squad 3 years from now and the excellent season he has had and the great potential he has shown I don't think it is premature to talk about him at all.

Yeah, back when it was U21. Lost out to Kaino as far as I remember.

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

Heaslip I think.

JJ hasn't played Rabo yet, but given the topic is for a squad 3 years from now and the excellent season he has had and the great potential he has shown I don't think it is premature to talk about him at all.

That's Houdini to Blackbeard!

profitius

How many changes do you think will be made to the Irish 23 by 2015? Lets say the first choice team is the following.

15 kearney
14 Bowe
13 BOD
12 D'Arcy
11 Earls
10 Sexton
9 Murray

8 Heaslip
7 SOB
6 Ferris
5 POC
4 Ryan
3 Ross
2 Best
1 Healy

16 Cronin
17 Fitzpatrick
18 Court
19 Tuohy
20 POM
21 Reddan
22 ROG
23 McFadden

I'd guess there'll be at least 8 changes (possibly as high as 11) to the 23 mostly with young players coming through. Some current regulars slipping back to the subs bench.

RoundBox11

ormond lad wrote: »

Dont see McLaughlin keeping POM out of 23. If Nagle/Foley reach anywhere near their potential over next year or two i can see one of them maybe surpassing toner.
POM has played all over the back row and IMO will be involved in a 23
IMO Earls will be a centre for Ireland over next few years as he'll be playing there most of the time with Munster
Tadhg Furlong if he continues to improve will def be in with a very good shot of the 3 jersey

Bar a handful of Nagle games over a year ago and none that really stick out for Foley, i can't see either coming close to Toner. Toner must be the most underrated lock in ireland atm. I would have had him start 1 of the NZ tests at least and by this time next year i can see him being a in the top 3 of irish locks. By 2015 i sincerely hope he is starting for ireland. He has so much to offer and has improved immensely. Much and all as i do like Nagle, i really dont think he's done anything to warrant discussion of him being capped.

Without making this sound like an "anti-munster" post or anything, i also don't see how JJ Hanrahan and Dave Kilcoyne would be near the 2015 squad. I do agree that JJ played brilliantly in the u20s but given that he hasnt even made the jump to Rabo level yet i think its incredibly premature to bring him into talks of new caps. Especially given the fact that Madigan hasn't even been capped yet and Paddy Jackson is also probably ahead of him.
As for Kilcoyne, surely Jack McGrath is far ahead of him right now. Kilcoyne has barely sampled the rabo yet while McGrath has scrummaged against the likes of Adam Jones. I'd also have Paddy McAllister and Ronan Loughney ahead of him.

danthefan

Kilcoyne is definitely a stretch.

JJ though, if he develops as a 10/12 rather than just a 10 could easily be involved in Ireland squads sooner rather than later, as we certainly are not blessed with depth at 12.

And the national side could desperately do with Nagle making some serious progress. POC and Ryan is a good starting pair for the moment but I've the same feeling about Touhy as I do about Henry, just missing that 5 or 10% extra for international. Good player though. It's imperative that DOC doesn't get near the team ever again.

ormond lad

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Bar a handful of Nagle games over a year ago and none that really stick out for Foley, i can't see either coming close to Toner. Toner must be the most underrated lock in ireland atm. I would have had him start 1 of the NZ tests at least and by this time next year i can see him being a in the top 3 of irish locks. By 2015 i sincerely hope he is starting for ireland. He has so much to offer and has improved immensely. Much and all as i do like Nagle, i really dont think he's done anything to warrant discussion of him being capped.

Without making this sound like an "anti-munster" post or anything, i also don't see how JJ Hanrahan and Dave Kilcoyne would be near the 2015 squad. I do agree that JJ played brilliantly in the u20s but given that he hasnt even made the jump to Rabo level yet i think its incredibly premature to bring him into talks of new caps. Especially given the fact that Madigan hasn't even been capped yet and Paddy Jackson is also probably ahead of him.
As for Kilcoyne, surely Jack McGrath is far ahead of him right now. Kilcoyne has barely sampled the rabo yet while McGrath has scrummaged against the likes of Adam Jones. I'd also have Paddy McAllister and Ronan Loughney ahead of him.

Its a very big IF for Nagle/Foley and for the mostpart im talking about unrealised potential wrt the two of them but if they do i think 1 if not both will surpass Toner
i think JJ may be involved but being honest cant see Kilcoyne being near an irish squad then. The fact JJ is a 10/12 helps him as we dont exactly have many 12s. Going back to Kilcoyne there is as you say a considerable number of props ahead of him