Reporting directly to the police on facebook.com

Break The Silence · 23-05-2012 08:08PM #1

Hello I am involved in a very small group of people who are interested in finding ways to stop child abuse images and videos from getting onto facebook.

We believe if there was an option to report child exploititive material directly to the police on facebook itself it would serve to frighten paedophiles and others away from that forum.

We think if someone comes across some bad content (say child abuse) they see the options.

- Spam or scam
- Nudity or pornography
- Graphic violence
- Hate speech or symbol
- Illegal drug use

None of these are anywhere close to what child abuse is.

If there was an option to report to your local police hotline the police would see it fast could inform facebook of what it is and it would be removed quickly.

The reporter would be happy, the police would be happy and facebook would be happy.

Obviously your IP address would determine which hotline you'd be reporting to.

MagicSean · 23-05-2012 08:18PM

I don't get the point of this. How would reporting it to police get it removed faster than reporting it to Facebook itself?

Break The Silence · 23-05-2012 08:23PM

MagicSean wrote: »

I don't get the point of this. How would reporting it to police get it removed faster than reporting it to Facebook itself?

Reporting child abuse to facebook only helps to hide it.

Several of the people we have come across have had up to 20 to 30 profiles before they are finally caught by the police (thanks to private citizens informing the police and not reporting it to facebook).

Break The Silence · 23-05-2012 08:28PM

Here's a link for anyone to have a look at.

It gives more detail of the problem which exists on facebook.

There are 4 parts to the story

MagicSean · 23-05-2012 08:30PM

No it helps prevent it as they no longer have access to that account. I still don't see what good it is reporting it to your local Gardaí as the person who owns the profile could be in any country. The better option would be to put pressure on Facebook to set up a child protection department that actively track the abusers and notify their local police.

Procrastastudy · 23-05-2012 08:35PM

Only the stupidest of the stupid would be using facebook to engage in that sort of activity. Rock on reporting it to the Gardai or what ever but it's really a complete non-issue tbh.

I'd give that article about as much credence as the stuff I read in those Now magazines my wife leaves in the toilet.

Break The Silence · 23-05-2012 08:44PM

MagicSean wrote: »

No it helps prevent it as they no longer have access to that account. I still don't see what good it is reporting it to your local Gardaí as the person who owns the profile could be in any country. The better option would be to put pressure on Facebook to set up a child protection department that actively track the abusers and notify their local police.

It is not facebook's job to do that and they will not do it, we've asked.

Their job is to stop it getting onto the site and to inform the NCMEC when they become aware of child abuse on their site however the options they give to report child abuse do not get the attention needed for them to be aware of child abuse on the site.

It takes about 2 minutes to set up an e-mail and to set up a facebook account.....getting an account deleted is easy.

The problem is that many of the bad profiles on facebook are posting pictures and videos of themselves abusing children, these children will not be saved if the profiles are just deleted.

Case in point is a guy called Robert Hull...here

There are others who abused children and posted child abuse content on facebook, they had plently of accounts as well.

Getting deleted is just a nusiance for them.

The kids keep on being abused.

The only thing that abusers fear is the law.

That is why we believe an option to report directly to L.E (Law Enforcement) would help save children.

Procrastastudy · 23-05-2012 08:48PM

Break The Silence wrote: »

That is why we believe an option to report directly to L.E (Law Enforcement) would help save children.

You seem to be suggesting that there isn't already that option. There are numerous bodies you can report it to.

Break The Silence · 23-05-2012 08:54PM

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Only the stupidest of the stupid would be using facebook to engage in that sort of activity. Rock on reporting it to the Gardai or what ever but it's really a complete non-issue tbh.

Child abusers are really stupid and are using the site to share images and videos on open walls.

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

I'd give that article about as much credence as the stuff I read in those Now magazines my wife leaves in the toilet.

You should do your own investigation on child abuse on facebook just to prove it wrong.

Owen · 23-05-2012 08:55PM

Break The Silence wrote: »

You should do your own investigation on child abuse on facebook just to prove it wrong.

What sort of investigation have you done?

Break The Silence · 23-05-2012 08:57PM

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

You seem to be suggesting that there isn't already that option. There are numerous bodies you can report it to.

There is no option on facebook to report it to the police.

If there was then child abuse profiles would not be so keen to go on there and at the very least they would be far more private which would help to reduce the amount of child abuse images circulating.

Procrastastudy · 23-05-2012 09:02PM

Break The Silence wrote: »

Child abusers are really stupid and are using the site to share images and videos on open walls.

Unfortunately the contrary is true in the vast majority of cases and the people involved have used some very sophisticated security. Still there are thick people in all walks of life why should paedophiles be any different.

Break The Silence wrote: »

You should do your own investigation on child abuse on facebook just to prove it wrong.

I didn't say it was wrong. Sensationalist, alarmist and out of date maybe.

Scaring them off of Facebook may, in the end, be counter productive. If people use this type of insecure medium for transmitting this type of stuff then it's very easy to catch them. Catching them is ultimately the only way the abuse stops. Law Enforcement know this - so aren't going to support any big noise to try and scare them off until there is a political reason to do so

jblack · 23-05-2012 09:03PM

Why would there be an option on Facebook to report it to the Police; just report it to the Police.

Surely we haven't reached a stage in human evolution where we need a Facebook icon in order to do something?

Procrastastudy · 23-05-2012 09:05PM

Break The Silence wrote: »

There is no option on facebook to report it to the police.

If there was then child abuse profiles would not be so keen to go on there and at the very least they would be far more private which would help to reduce the amount of child abuse images circulating.

Its a sad reality that one way to catch them is have the images circulating. As paedophiles use more and more sophisticated methods and become more insulated child abuse of this type will go undetected.

Look at cases like that of Kylie Freeman.

Break The Silence · 23-05-2012 09:06PM

Owen wrote: »

What sort of investigation have you done?

I am involved in the small group as I said.

From here

"Operation Laminar was launched after evidence was provided to authorities in 20 countries, including Interpol and the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) child exploitation unit."

I know where the evidence came from.

We know there is literally a mountain of child abuse on facebook which the vast majority of people never come across.

We also know that we have only scratched the surface of what is on there.

Break The Silence · 23-05-2012 09:10PM

jblack wrote: »

Why would there be an option on Facebook to report it to the Police; just report it to the Police.

Surely we haven't reached a stage in human evolution where we need a Facebook icon in order to do something?

I agree with you here completely but most people do not want to get off their backside and go and actually go down to their local police station and report it.

I went down to my own local Garda Station to report 3 Windows Live profiles and the Garda refused to take them off me.

Our idea is simple if facebook had something like that it would deter paedophiles more which would in turn save children.

Owen · 23-05-2012 09:11PM

So no real investigation at all so. Reeks of the 'everyone's a paedo' society we now live in, and it's so sad we're going down this road.

MagicSean · 23-05-2012 09:12PM

Break The Silence wrote: »

I agree with you here completely but most people do not want to get off their backside and go and actually go down to their local police station and report it.

I went down to my own local Garda Station to report 3 Windows Live profiles and the Garda refused to take them off me.

Our idea is simple if facebook had something like that it would deter paedophiles more which would in turn save children.

How did you know the owners of the profiles were in Ireland?

Procrastastudy · 23-05-2012 09:13PM

Break The Silence wrote: »

Our idea is simple if facebook had something like that it would deter paedophiles more which would in turn save children.

Your idea seems a bit illogical given what is contained in those articles.

The abuse has been stopped due to the perpetrators being arrested. Arguably if they hadn't been using facebook the abuse would have continued.

Procrastastudy · 23-05-2012 09:14PM

Deleted - Youtube clip contained nudity.

Look up Pedogeddon (Brass eye)

The 'sound wave' bit just gets me everytime.

UDP · 23-05-2012 09:17PM

Hi Break The Silence, facebook already work with law enforcement to help tackle child abuse on facebook which is rampent. My girlfriend worked in facebook where they reviewed the material that was reported. The team there had to look at many child abuse images (porn and other stuff) that was reported by members of the site. Images involving children was always escalated and passed on the relevant information to the police and organisations who work to try and catch those responsible.

There are options to report content all over facebook so people should really use it. I suspect only a fraction of the content is actually reported since abusers are generally only friends with other abusers so that they can share content.

I don't think facebook do enough though.they are only dealing with what is reported rather than developing software that analyses images and videos for likely child porn. The gardai in ireland especially do not have the resources to filter through images reported to gather evidence. Facebook should be the ones responsible for doing it as they are making money from their website.

howamidifferent · 23-05-2012 09:18PM

Call me stupid, but the fact your looking for it, doesn't that open you up to charges of seeking and downloading this stuff much like the person ( cant think of his name ) who claimed he was writing an article or expose on it a few years back? What's to prevent you from being charged with looking for and or downloading this stuff?

Cant see why you'd want to expose yourself to that charge to be honest?

Break The Silence · 23-05-2012 09:19PM

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Unfortunately the contrary is true in the vast majority of cases and the people involved have used some very sophisticated security. Still there are thick people in all walks of life why should paedophiles be any different.

Absolutely true but the numbers of paedophiles that are smart is dwarfed by the numbers that are thick.

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

I didn't say it was wrong. Sensationalist, alarmist and out of date maybe.

Scaring them off of Facebook may, in the end, be counter productive. If people use this type of insecure medium for transmitting this type of stuff then it's very easy to catch them. Catching them is ultimately the only way the abuse stops. Law Enforcement know this - so aren't going to support any big noise to try and scare them off until there is a political reason to do so

A lot of the new child abuse images and videos that are posted (I've been told) are commercially produced if there was not a demand for them then children would be saved.

The Irish govt is the one that can make that change if they had a mind to.

Because facebook Ireland is the country that facebook has its worldwide HQ it is Irish law that dictates what measures all companies have to adhere to.

CardinalJ · 23-05-2012 09:21PM

I can't think of a single person I know who wouldn't report child abuse to the Gardai, or any law enforcement agency..... I know people wouldn't "get up off their arse" to report a video of joyriding etc, but raping a child is different.

I also think FB would be seriously sketchy about giving the option to accuse someone of being a pedophile!!

You're campaigning for something which no one would argue against, but you'd be better off campaigning for the Gardai to have a dedicated social media watch type thing than for one of the biggest Co's in the world to take on something so 'touchy', excuse the pun.

jblack · 23-05-2012 09:28PM

CardinalJ wrote: »

I can't think of a single person I know who wouldn't report child abuse to the Gardai, or any law enforcement agency..... I know people wouldn't "get up off their arse" to report a video of joyriding etc, but raping a child is different.

I also think FB would be seriously sketchy about giving the option to accuse someone of being a pedophile!!

You're campaigning for something which no one would argue against, but you'd be better off campaigning for the Gardai to have a dedicated social media watch type thing than for one of the biggest Co's in the world to take on something so 'touchy', excuse the pun.

+1

although ironic username for this thread

Procrastastudy · 23-05-2012 09:32PM

Break The Silence wrote: »

A lot of the new child abuse images and videos that are posted (I've been told) are commercially produced if there was not a demand for them then children would be saved.

I have no data to either confirm or refute what you are saying. It would seem contrary to common sense though to produce child porn commercially and then mae it available on facebook.

If by commercial you mean people in rings - abusing their children in return for other people posting pictures of them doing the same. I don't someone who is twisted enough to do this keeping their hands off a child based on not being able to get stuff from opther people.

Break The Silence wrote: »

The Irish govt is the one that can make that change if they had a mind to.

Change what? UCC is already engaged in research into online child pornography and there is a supposedly excellent Masters at TCD or UCD on cybercrime available to limited professions.

Break The Silence · 23-05-2012 09:39PM

Owen wrote: »

So no real investigation at all so. Reeks of the 'everyone's a paedo' society we now live in, and it's so sad we're going down this road.

Huh?

MagicSean wrote: »

How did you know the owners of the profiles were in Ireland?

Never said they were in Ireland but Mircosoft is based in Ireland so it made sense to report them here

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Your idea seems a bit illogical given what is contained in those articles.

The abuse has been stopped due to the perpetrators being arrested. Arguably if they hadn't been using facebook the abuse would have continued.

Yes they were arrested due to being caught and they were caught because someone sent info to the police, if they could have been caught after only one profile being made that migh help to save a child

UDP wrote: »

Hi Break The Silence, facebook already work with law enforcement to help tackle child abuse on facebook which is rampent. My girlfriend worked in facebook where they reviewed the material that was reported. The team there had to look at many child abuse images (porn and other stuff) that was reported by members of the site. Images involving children was always escalated and passed on the relevant information to the police and organisations who work to try and catch those responsible.

There are options to report content all over facebook so people should really use it. I suspect only a fraction of the content is actually reported since abusers are generally only friends with other abusers so that they can share content.

I don't think facebook do enough though.they are only dealing with what is reported rather than developing software that analyses images and videos for likely child porn. The gardai in ireland especially do not have the resources to filter through images reported to gather evidence. Facebook should be the ones responsible for doing it as they are making money from their website.

I heard some of the content Analysts from the IWF have serious issues after a long time working there plus I believe the FBI have rules that their agents are ony allowed to work in anti-child abuse for 2 years or they risk burning out.

A US cop involved in anti-child abuse told me much the same regarding his own officers.

howamidifferent wrote: »

Call me stupid, but the fact your looking for it, doesn't that open you up to charges of seeking and downloading this stuff much like the person ( cant think of his name ) who claimed he was writing an article or expose on it a few years back? What's to prevent you from being charged with looking for and or downloading this stuff? Cant see why you'd want to expose yourself to that charge to be honest?

I remember it was the guy from The Who...name escapes me.

The simple answer for you is I don't look for it.

Anyone who looks for it is extremely stupid.

Ireland has some of the toughest laws regarding viewing of child abuse in the world.

Next year they plan to bring new legislation which will compele people who are aware of child abuse to report it to the Garda

Procrastastudy · 23-05-2012 09:45PM

OP you have a noble intent but I think you are focusing on a non-issue. That said you aren't really doing any harm so I wish you the best of luck.

Break The Silence · 23-05-2012 09:56PM

CardinalJ wrote: »

I can't think of a single person I know who wouldn't report child abuse to the Gardai, or any law enforcement agency..... I know people wouldn't "get up off their arse" to report a video of joyriding etc, but raping a child is different.

I also think FB would be seriously sketchy about giving the option to accuse someone of being a pedophile!!

You're campaigning for something which no one would argue against, but you'd be better off campaigning for the Gardai to have a dedicated social media watch type thing than for one of the biggest Co's in the world to take on something so 'touchy', excuse the pun.

Do you know anything about reporting child abuse to the police?

Have you ever actually tried to?

I wrote on a piece of paper 3 links to profiles which I'd been told had child abuse on them.

The Garda refused to take them off me.

I spoke to the Garda a number of weeks ago they already have complete access to the fb database.

There are 13,000 Garda it is utterly impossible for them to police the facebook site which now has over 900,000,000 users.

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

I have no data to either confirm or refute what you are saying. It would seem contrary to common sense though to produce child porn commercially and then mae it available on facebook.

If by commercial you mean people in rings - abusing their children in return for other people posting pictures of them doing the same. I don't someone who is twisted enough to do this keeping their hands off a child based on not being able to get stuff from other people.

Change what? UCC is already engaged in research into online child pornography and there is a supposedly excellent Masters at TCD or UCD on cybercrime available to limited professions.

No I mean people who are in countries that are paid to rape children and others film the abuse, people pay for it and some upload it onto facebook.

I understand the way abusers operate is on a barter system trading images and videos.

Re-Change the way it can be reported.

There are several pages on facebook that hunt down child abuse videos and profiles just so they can be deleted this does nothing except help to hide content.

Procrastastudy · 23-05-2012 10:00PM

Break The Silence wrote: »

Do you know anything about reporting child abuse to the police?

Have you ever actually tried to?

I wrote on a piece of paper 3 links to profiles which I'd been told had child abuse on them.

The Garda refused to take them off me.

I spoke to the Garda a number of weeks ago they already have complete access to the fb database.

There are 13,000 Garda it is utterly impossible for them to police the facebook site which now has over 900,000,000 users.

There are massive worldwide operations on going - you are taking quite a simplistic view and failing to see the bigger picture.

Break The Silence wrote: »

No I mean people who are in countries that are paid to rape children and others film the abuse, people pay for it and some upload it onto facebook.

I understand the way abusers operate is on a barter system trading images and videos.

Change the way it can be reported.

There are several pages on facebook that hunt down child abuse videos and profiles just so they can be deleted this does nothing except help to hide content.

So basically Facebook has no bearing on whether these videos would be made or not - it simply makes it easier to track people down.

Break The Silence · 23-05-2012 10:00PM

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

OP you have a noble intent but I think you are focusing on a non-issue. That said you aren't really doing any harm so I wish you the best of luck.

I wish I agreed with you on this but one and a half years after being exposed to what is on facebook I know you are wrong.

Thank you for the good wishes.

Reporting directly to the police on facebook.com

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