We haven't had a good Public Sector bashing thread in ages

mbiking123 · 11-05-2012 09:48PM

kceire wrote: »

Need we say more.

Ya bit like the labours way not frankfurts way

mbiking123 · 11-05-2012 09:52PM

micropig wrote: »

Sure seen as we're on the subject of 2011

The public sector pay bill in 2010 was €15.1bn, and new figures released last week showed that state employees earn one-third more than their private sector counterparts.

According to a new Central Statistics Office report on wages, weekly earnings in the public sector rose from a three-year low of €882 a week in the first quarter of 2010 to €913 in the final quarter. In contrast, in the final quarter of 2010, weekly earnings in the private sector were almost a third lower at €625.

Ireland's public sector pay structure is substantially higher than most other European countries and, on average, one-third higher than public sector workers in Britain. Latest comparable figures show that average British public service weekly earnings were €634 compared with the €913 paid to State employees here.

Some civil servants at the top of their respective pay scales are getting wage rises of €2,400 for long service. The previous government shied away from further angering public sector workers already reeling from pension and income levy increases.

How come there are reports of GP's earning 300,000 on medical cards alone. That does not include those paying cash etc

Thats a private sector worker, doin well to find a doctor in public sector near that. In fact an army doctor can earn around 70,000 a year with the same qualification.

When we look at the facts its not all that it seems from these figures

micropig · 11-05-2012 10:03PM

mbiking123 wrote: »

How come there are reports of GP's earning 300,000 on medical cards alone. That does not include those paying cash etc

Thats a private sector worker, doin well to find a doctor in public sector near that. In fact an army doctor can earn around 70,000 a year with the same qualification.

When we look at the facts its not all that it seems from these figures

Why was the HSE paying them for patients who had died?
THE HEALTH Service Executive has said it will not be able to pursue GPs to recoup money paid out in error under the medical card scheme in respect of patients who had died because doctors are also owed money arising from delays in registering newborn infants

Medical Card payments to Offaly doctors

Dr Bernadette Scully, The Medical Centre Clonminch Tullamore €549,818

Dr Paul Mc Aleer, Granary Court Medical Centre, Edenderry €518,598

Dr Declan Scanlon Church Street, Tullamore, €478,443

Dr James Quinlan St Kyran's Street, Tullamore, €426,017

Dr Mary Harkins Harbour Rd, Banagher €419,171

Dr Paul Fahy 3 St Conleths Road, Edenderry €409,383

Dr Anthony Keane Harbour Street, Tullamore €401,771

Dr Brendan Lee 3 Cormac Street, Tullamore €379,766

Dr Donal O'Brien Wilmer Road, Birr €359,793

Dr Patrick McGovern Birr Medi Centre, John's Terrace, Birr €351,904

Dr Patrick McAuliffe Green Street, Birr €310,462

Dr John Hunt (RIP) €300,059 Kilcormac, Co Offaly

Dr Philip Brady 1 Boyne Meadows, Edenderry €271,078

Dr Michael John Twomey 15 Henry Street Tullamore €268,275

Dr John Tedders 71 J K L Street, Edenderry €254,927.............................

I'd love to see an actual breakdown of figures because they are extremely high €549,818 @€;50/patient is 42 patients a day / 52 weeks of the year

Monife · 11-05-2012 10:37PM

micropig wrote: »

Why was the HSE paying them for patients who had died?
THE HEALTH Service Executive has said it will not be able to pursue GPs to recoup money paid out in error under the medical card scheme in respect of patients who had died because doctors are also owed money arising from delays in registering newborn infants

Medical Card payments to Offaly doctors

Dr Bernadette Scully, The Medical Centre Clonminch Tullamore €549,818

Dr Paul Mc Aleer, Granary Court Medical Centre, Edenderry €518,598

Dr Declan Scanlon Church Street, Tullamore, €478,443

Dr James Quinlan St Kyran's Street, Tullamore, €426,017

Dr Mary Harkins Harbour Rd, Banagher €419,171

Dr Paul Fahy 3 St Conleths Road, Edenderry €409,383

Dr Anthony Keane Harbour Street, Tullamore €401,771

Dr Brendan Lee 3 Cormac Street, Tullamore €379,766

Dr Donal O'Brien Wilmer Road, Birr €359,793

Dr Patrick McGovern Birr Medi Centre, John's Terrace, Birr €351,904

Dr Patrick McAuliffe Green Street, Birr €310,462

Dr John Hunt (RIP) €300,059 Kilcormac, Co Offaly

Dr Philip Brady 1 Boyne Meadows, Edenderry €271,078

Dr Michael John Twomey 15 Henry Street Tullamore €268,275

Dr John Tedders 71 J K L Street, Edenderry €254,927.............................

I'd love to see an actual breakdown of figures because they are extremely high €549,818 @€;50/patient is 42 patients a day / 52 weeks of the year

They get extra "allowances" for writing prescriptions and for re-visits.

mbiking123 · 12-05-2012 12:47PM

micropig wrote: »

Why was the HSE paying them for patients who had died?
THE HEALTH Service Executive has said it will not be able to pursue GPs to recoup money paid out in error under the medical card scheme in respect of patients who had died because doctors are also owed money arising from delays in registering newborn infants

Medical Card payments to Offaly doctors

Dr Bernadette Scully, The Medical Centre Clonminch Tullamore €549,818

Dr Paul Mc Aleer, Granary Court Medical Centre, Edenderry €518,598

Dr Declan Scanlon Church Street, Tullamore, €478,443

Dr James Quinlan St Kyran's Street, Tullamore, €426,017

Dr Mary Harkins Harbour Rd, Banagher €419,171

Dr Paul Fahy 3 St Conleths Road, Edenderry €409,383

Dr Anthony Keane Harbour Street, Tullamore €401,771

Dr Brendan Lee 3 Cormac Street, Tullamore €379,766

Dr Donal O'Brien Wilmer Road, Birr €359,793

Dr Patrick McGovern Birr Medi Centre, John's Terrace, Birr €351,904

Dr Patrick McAuliffe Green Street, Birr €310,462

Dr John Hunt (RIP) €300,059 Kilcormac, Co Offaly

Dr Philip Brady 1 Boyne Meadows, Edenderry €271,078

Dr Michael John Twomey 15 Henry Street Tullamore €268,275

Dr John Tedders 71 J K L Street, Edenderry €254,927.............................

I'd love to see an actual breakdown of figures because they are extremely high €549,818 @€;50/patient is 42 patients a day / 52 weeks of the year

Bang on Micropig, thats wehere the real wastage is, chasing someone on 20,000 or 25,000 etc for 2-3k will save money but unfair with the real waste thats going on

Electronic voting machines another example that comes to mind of wated money

Health minister negoitated for the doctors so dont expect the government to solve this problem, instead attack somebody else.

Also just about everything is more expensive here than in UK or other parts of Europe. So pay needs to be higher to pay for them. Even our mortgages are higher, need to reduce cost of living, then can reduce pay

mbiking123 · 13-05-2012 10:16PM

According to Business Week, the average CEO of a major corporation made 42 times the average hourly worker's pay in 1980. By 1990 that had almost doubled to 85 times. In 2000, the average CEO salary reached an unbelievable 531 times that of the average hourly worker.
"Pay for performance", tying executive compensation to the financial success of their company, has become very popular in the past decade. In the face of the largest bull market ever, that isn't surprising. It also isn't realistic. What CEO honestly believes that all or most of the appreciation in value of their company is due to their own talent?

http://management.about.com/cs/generalmanagement/a/CEOsOverpaid.htm

no wonder the western world is in the financial situation its in, no public sector manager is getting 531 times that of a worker. Even somebody on minimum wage and part time

Vizzy · 15-05-2012 07:47PM

Croke Park Delivers

Effective immediately

Sick Days

We will no longer accept a doctor's certificate as proof of sickness. If you are able to go to the doctor, you are able to come to work.

Holiday Days

Each employee will receive 104 personal days a year. They are called Saturday & Sunday.

Compassionate Leave

This is no excuse for missing work. There is nothing you can do for dead friends, relatives or co-workers. Every effort should be made to have non-employees attend to the arrangements. In rare cases where employee involvement is necessary, the funeral should be scheduled in the late afternoon. We will be glad to allow you to work through your lunch hour and subsequently leave one hour early.

Toilet Use

Entirely too much time is being spent in the toilet. There is now a strict three-minute time limit in the cubicles. At the end of three minutes, an alarm will sound, the toilet paper roll will retract, the cubicle door will open, and your picture will be taken. After your second offence, your picture will be posted on the company notice board under the "Chronic Offenders" category. Anyone caught smiling in the picture will be sanctioned under the company's mental health policy .

Lunch Break

Skinny people get 30 minutes for lunch, as they need to eat more so that they can look healthy. Normal size people get 15 minutes for lunch to get a balanced meal to maintain their average figure. Chubby people get 5 minutes for lunch, because that's all the time needed to drink a Slim-Fast.

Thank you for your loyalty to our company. Remember we are an employer of choice and we are here to provide a positive employment experience. Therefore, all questions, comments, concerns, complaints, frustrations, irritations, aggravations, insinuations, allegations, accusations, contemplations, consternation and input should be directed elsewhere.

:):)
***************************************************************************

golden lane · 15-05-2012 07:53PM

Vizzy wrote: »

Croke Park Delivers

Effective immediately

Sick Days

We will no longer accept a doctor's certificate as proof of sickness. If you are able to go to the doctor, you are able to come to work.

Holiday Days

Each employee will receive 104 personal days a year. They are called Saturday & Sunday.

Compassionate Leave

This is no excuse for missing work. There is nothing you can do for dead friends, relatives or co-workers. Every effort should be made to have non-employees attend to the arrangements. In rare cases where employee involvement is necessary, the funeral should be scheduled in the late afternoon. We will be glad to allow you to work through your lunch hour and subsequently leave one hour early.

Toilet Use

Entirely too much time is being spent in the toilet. There is now a strict three-minute time limit in the cubicles. At the end of three minutes, an alarm will sound, the toilet paper roll will retract, the cubicle door will open, and your picture will be taken. After your second offence, your picture will be posted on the company notice board under the "Chronic Offenders" category. Anyone caught smiling in the picture will be sanctioned under the company's mental health policy .

Lunch Break

Skinny people get 30 minutes for lunch, as they need to eat more so that they can look healthy. Normal size people get 15 minutes for lunch to get a balanced meal to maintain their average figure. Chubby people get 5 minutes for lunch, because that's all the time needed to drink a Slim-Fast.

Thank you for your loyalty to our company. Remember we are an employer of choice and we are here to provide a positive employment experience. Therefore, all questions, comments, concerns, complaints, frustrations, irritations, aggravations, insinuations, allegations, accusations, contemplations, consternation and input should be directed elsewhere. :):)
***************************************************************************

when you get then there.......how can you make them actually....work.

Vizzy · 15-05-2012 07:57PM

Don't know about other places but where I am they use a cattle prod.

BTW ...Golden ...... Lane .......... what ........ is ....... the ........ story ........ with ....... all ....... the ........ gaps...... between ...... words........?

tayto lover · 15-05-2012 08:10PM

IrishAm wrote: »

Who will be looking after the farm? Have you scored yourself a few slaves off the job bridge scam?

Interns ??

micropig · 15-05-2012 08:17PM

Vizzy wrote: »

Toilet Use

Entirely too much time is being spent in the toilet. There is now a strict three-minute time limit in the cubicles. At the end of three minutes, an alarm will sound, the toilet paper roll will retract, the cubicle door will open, and your picture will be taken.

What on earth would be taking you 3 minutes?:pac:

Come in on time, go home on time and take your time all day

mbiking123 · 15-05-2012 08:24PM

http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2012/01/31/athens-school-children-to-get-free-meals-thessaloniki-500-kids-go-to-school-wo-breakfast/

"The fact that many families cannot properly feed their children anymore due to the strict austerity and devastating economic crisis. As the phenomenon of malnourished school children has been increasing, the Education Ministry decided to provide children with free snack-meals in 18 schools of 10 districts and low-income suburbs of Athens."

On radio that children in Greece goto school with an extra packed lunch for the kids that cannot afford one. All the austerity is a race to the bottom. Its ok for a FG TD on 140,000 a year to say they find it hard to make ends meet and then they whack the Public sector for being overpaid

http://corrupteire.blogspot.com/2012/05/fg-td-says-its-not-easy-on-140k-year.html

FG TD says its not easy on €140k a year, tells a foreigner to go home and says government will default on debt in 4 years!

We now basically have people starving in the EU, and at the same time we have bailed out the banks and the management are limited to 500,000 a year pay. And people complain about China and North Korea about inequality !!!

woodoo · 15-05-2012 10:12PM

We ran out of tea bags today and everyone was up in arms. No public servant should have to work without tea.

golden lane · 15-05-2012 10:17PM

Vizzy wrote: »

Don't know about other places but where I am they use a cattle prod.

BTW ...Golden ...... Lane .......... what ........ is ....... the ........ story ........ with ....... all ....... the ........ gaps...... between ...... words........?

not listening when i went to university.......

anndub · 15-05-2012 10:20PM

woodoo wrote: »

We ran out of tea bags today and everyone was up in arms. No public servant should have to work without tea.

We ran out of milk one Friday evening, had to drink our tea black on the afternoon tea break. That would never happen in the private sector.

golden lane · 15-05-2012 10:20PM

woodoo wrote: »

We ran out of tea bags today and everyone was up in arms. No public servant should have to work without tea.

exactly......and cakes.

mbiking123 · 15-05-2012 11:04PM

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/1011/1224305578242.html

'Truth' about public sector pay fails to stack up

"The best source for comparisons in this area is the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development’s Government at a Glance 2011 . The OECD figures are useful because they use so-called “purchasing power parity” – what your salary actually buys you in the real world. So what do they tell us? The starting salary for Irish teachers in 2008 was almost exactly the OECD average – but that was before pay cuts and the pension levy, which have reduced the salary by about 14 per cent. Nurses’ pay was about the same as that in the UK, Australia, or Norway, somewhat higher than in Finland, Germany or Japan and much lower than in the US. But that was before the 14 per cent of cuts since 2008. Given those cuts, it is almost certainly true that the real pay of teachers and nurses is in line with or below that in other developed economies.

For second-rank managers in central government departments, the level of compensation (adjusted for social contributions and length of holidays) is almost exactly at the OECD average, behind such countries as Australia, Austria and Chile, way behind the UK and US, and slightly ahead of countries such as Norway and Spain. Middle managers are slightly ahead of the OECD average. But secretarial workers are significantly below the international norm. Economists and statisticians, amusingly, do quite well, coming out somewhat higher than the OECD average.

Broadly speaking, what the figures tell us is the vast bulk of public servants in Ireland are not getting salaries and benefits much higher than international norms and that, given the cuts since 2008, many of them are well below those norms. But there are two glaring exceptions.

Public service salaries for medical specialists (ie consultants) are almost off the charts when compared to the rest of the OECD (though again the figures used are from 2008, before the cuts). And top level central government managers (ie departmental secretaries) are very well paid by international standards, even after the pay cuts. They are not the best paid by any means – Italy, Britain, New Zealand and Belgium all pay their top officials more – but they do very well indeed."

Vizzy · 15-05-2012 11:13PM

micropig wrote: »

What on earth would be taking you 3 minutes?:pac:

Come in on time, go home on time and take your time all day

Jeez,I would't even have got to page 2 in the Sun in 3 minutes.

Do you not take at least 5 minutes between each class in your school.?

"Shows promise,but could try harder"

true · 15-05-2012 11:32PM

micropig wrote: »

Sure seen as we're on the subject of 2011

The public sector pay bill in 2010 was €15.1bn, and new figures released last week showed that state employees earn one-third more than their private sector counterparts.

According to a new Central Statistics Office report on wages, weekly earnings in the public sector rose from a three-year low of €882 a week in the first quarter of 2010 to €913 in the final quarter. In contrast, in the final quarter of 2010, weekly earnings in the private sector were almost a third lower at €625.

Ireland's public sector pay structure is substantially higher than most other European countries and, on average, one-third higher than public sector workers in Britain. Latest comparable figures show that average British public service weekly earnings were €634 compared with the €913 paid to State employees here.

Some civil servants at the top of their respective pay scales are getting wage rises of €2,400 for long service. The previous government shied away from further angering public sector workers already reeling from pension and income levy increases.

I am amazed that 18 months after the IMF come here, our public servants are still so overpaid. I'm voting NO because the sooner the rotten pack of cards collapses, the better.

mbiking123 · 15-05-2012 11:35PM

true wrote: »

I am amazed that 18 months after the IMF come here, our public servants are still so overpaid. I'm voting NO because the sooner the rotten pack of cards collapses, the better.

Check out OECD, they dont agree with your view

Odysseus · 15-05-2012 11:56PM

UDAWINNER wrote: »

I just read on teletxt that PS unions have rejected calls by the govt to reduce uncertified sick leave from 7 to 3 days. PS workers would rather keep their stress/hangover days. These guys are still living inthe boom years with their inflated holidays, pay and pensions. The sooner the govt grap a pair and go after them, the better.
Its Ireland, sense doesn't prevail.

Where are they getting 7 from? I'm entitled to 10 a year, though I have never taken anything thing like that in the 14 years I have worked there. However, i do enjoy having the right to take them as it pisses off certain personality types.

true · 16-05-2012 12:05AM

mbiking123 wrote: »

Check out OECD, they dont agree with your view

The facts are the facts. As the other poster said, aAccording to the (Irish government) Central Statistics Office report on wages, weekly earnings in the public sector rose from a three-year low of €882 a week in the first quarter of 2010 to €913 in the final quarter. What other OECD country will you find such high average public sector wages in? Name one - see, you cannot.;)

woodoo · 16-05-2012 12:18AM

true wrote: »

I am amazed that 18 months after the IMF come here, our public servants are still so overpaid. I'm voting NO because the sooner the rotten pack of cards collapses, the better.

Here read this again

mbiking123 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/1011/1224305578242.html

'Truth' about public sector pay fails to stack up

"The best source for comparisons in this area is the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development’s Government at a Glance 2011 . The OECD figures are useful because they use so-called “purchasing power parity” – what your salary actually buys you in the real world. So what do they tell us? The starting salary for Irish teachers in 2008 was almost exactly the OECD average – but that was before pay cuts and the pension levy, which have reduced the salary by about 14 per cent. Nurses’ pay was about the same as that in the UK, Australia, or Norway, somewhat higher than in Finland, Germany or Japan and much lower than in the US. But that was before the 14 per cent of cuts since 2008. Given those cuts, it is almost certainly true that the real pay of teachers and nurses is in line with or below that in other developed economies.

For second-rank managers in central government departments, the level of compensation (adjusted for social contributions and length of holidays) is almost exactly at the OECD average, behind such countries as Australia, Austria and Chile, way behind the UK and US, and slightly ahead of countries such as Norway and Spain. Middle managers are slightly ahead of the OECD average. But secretarial workers are significantly below the international norm. Economists and statisticians, amusingly, do quite well, coming out somewhat higher than the OECD average.

Broadly speaking, what the figures tell us is the vast bulk of public servants in Ireland are not getting salaries and benefits much higher than international norms and that, given the cuts since 2008, many of them are well below those norms. But there are two glaring exceptions.

Public service salaries for medical specialists (ie consultants) are almost off the charts when compared to the rest of the OECD (though again the figures used are from 2008, before the cuts). And top level central government managers (ie departmental secretaries) are very well paid by international standards, even after the pay cuts. They are not the best paid by any means – Italy, Britain, New Zealand and Belgium all pay their top officials more – but they do very well indeed."

woodoo · 16-05-2012 12:19AM

true wrote: »

The facts are the facts.

You can't handle the facts

true · 16-05-2012 12:36AM

read this again

true wrote: »

As the other poster said, according to the (Irish government) Central Statistics Office report on wages, weekly earnings in the public sector rose from a three-year low of €882 a week in the first quarter of 2010 to €913 in the final quarter. What other OECD country will you find such high average public sector wages in? Name one - see, you cannot.;)

Now try harder. As another poster pointed out, "latest comparable figures show that average British public service weekly earnings were €634 compared with the €913 paid to State employees here"

Can you find another country in the world with higher average public sector wages than Ireland ? If there was, I'm sure it would trip off your tongue:P

mbiking123 · 16-05-2012 10:04AM

true wrote: »

read this again

Now try harder. As another poster pointed out, "latest comparable figures show that average British public service weekly earnings were €634 compared with the €913 paid to State employees here"

Can you find another country in the world with higher average public sector wages than Ireland ? If there was, I'm sure it would trip off your tongue:P

ok nurses are paid more in the US

its just 'trip off my toungue'

true · 16-05-2012 02:15PM

mbiking123 wrote: »

ok nurses are paid more in the US

nurses in the USA are paid more than street-cleaners in the USA, but its still much less than nurses earn here. http://www.worldsalaries.org/usa.shtml
As Heinz from the IMF says, we have the highest public sector wages and pensions in the world. That will change in time though.

16-05-2012 02:31PM

true wrote: »

nurses in the USA are paid more than street-cleaners in the USA, but its still much less than nurses earn here. http://www.worldsalaries.org/usa.shtml
As Heinz from the IMF says, we have the highest public sector wages and pensions in the world. That will change in time though.

Getting facts from the back of a ketchup bottle will get you nowhere in life!

While we are spouting untruths I once read in a newspaper with better journalistic integrity than the indo (the weekly sport) in a little box on the side panel of one of its pages that was headed with "It's a Fact!"

What I read was "Sheep can see through walls and have been used in counter-terrorism efforts"

Wish I'd kept that article!

green_island · 16-05-2012 02:47PM

mbiking123 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/1011/1224305578242.html

'Truth' about public sector pay fails to stack up

"The best source for comparisons in this area is the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development’s Government at a Glance 2011 . The OECD figures are useful because they use so-called “purchasing power parity” – what your salary actually buys you in the real world. So what do they tell us? The starting salary for Irish teachers in 2008 was almost exactly the OECD average – but that was before pay cuts and the pension levy, which have reduced the salary by about 14 per cent. Nurses’ pay was about the same as that in the UK, Australia, or Norway, somewhat higher than in Finland, Germany or Japan and much lower than in the US. But that was before the 14 per cent of cuts since 2008. Given those cuts, it is almost certainly true that the real pay of teachers and nurses is in line with or below that in other developed economies.

For second-rank managers in central government departments, the level of compensation (adjusted for social contributions and length of holidays) is almost exactly at the OECD average, behind such countries as Australia, Austria and Chile, way behind the UK and US, and slightly ahead of countries such as Norway and Spain. Middle managers are slightly ahead of the OECD average. But secretarial workers are significantly below the international norm. Economists and statisticians, amusingly, do quite well, coming out somewhat higher than the OECD average.

Broadly speaking, what the figures tell us is the vast bulk of public servants in Ireland are not getting salaries and benefits much higher than international norms and that, given the cuts since 2008, many of them are well below those norms. But there are two glaring exceptions.

Public service salaries for medical specialists (ie consultants) are almost off the charts when compared to the rest of the OECD (though again the figures used are from 2008, before the cuts). And top level central government managers (ie departmental secretaries) are very well paid by international standards, even after the pay cuts. They are not the best paid by any means – Italy, Britain, New Zealand and Belgium all pay their top officials more – but they do very well indeed."

i cant speak for other professions but i assure you that prior to the start of the cuts in 2008 , nurses in ireland were paid considerabley more than in the uk

Larbre34 · 16-05-2012 03:09PM

Im delighted the thread has wound its way around to pay comparisons. Doing a lump comparison of private v public sector pay is like comparing the stomach capacity of a whale to the typical golf handicap of a man aged 52.

The public sector does not have fry cooks, security men, shop assistants or call centre jocks. Where they are there, its as a contractor or agency service so the wages arent included in the equation. 70% of the public sector is qualified to Level 7 or above. Even at that, Im in an public organisation of 900 bodies, the average pay works out at €45,000 and the number of souls on over €80,000 is 12. If you took all the lower paid service workers out of the private sector figure and then did the comparison you'd get some shock at the variation

We haven't had a good Public Sector bashing thread in ages

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