‘Undernourished’ child collapses in Cork

Abi · 15-05-2012 01:46PM

Dudess wrote: »

They're neither generous nor "more than enough".

After reading the OP I knew it would take a post from you before any kind of reason was demonstrated in this thread..

dsmythy wrote: »

Why is the story not about an undernourished mother......

How do you know she isn't? It was clearly stated that the fridge was empty. What is she eating then?

Dravokivich wrote: »

Spuds alone a stable diet does not make...

Exactly. Cheap fcuking potatoes is not going to nourish a child.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Typical - a child collapses because they were "severely undernourished" and out come the bash those on SW brigade with comments about fags and drink despite knowing nothing about the financial circumstances of this family.

Another voice of reason here.

Nobody here knows anything about this womans financial situation, and what other bills she has to pay. Do we know how long she is receiving SW? could she have been working, lost her job, and now have existing loan payments still on her plate? BTW, that rate of payment is slightly out now, the payment has been reduced because the SW pay out fuel allowance from Oct to early Apr only. This is ridiculous imo, because we're still getting hail and high winds in fcuking May.

But no no... Dole scrounging bitch she must be :rolleyes:

golden lane · 15-05-2012 01:46PM

CJC999 wrote: »

Myself and my wife are both working. We have one child in creche 5 days a week and we have considerably less than that left each week after childcare and mortgage are paid. Out of the remaning money we have to pay for fuel, electricity, petrol, car tax/insurance, clothing etc etc. Our daughter never goes hungry. The woman can cry poverty all she wants, the simple fact is she has more than enough to ensure the child is fed properly. She hasnt done so and has neglected the child.

well done to you and your wife........be proud of yourselves....

Nothingbetter2d · 15-05-2012 01:48PM

muppetkiller wrote: »

The only reason I could see someone starving in this country is if they actually are working but on low income employment.
No medical cards , No massive rent allowance , possible mortgage etc...

If they are on welfare it probably is neglect....probably. Unless they are now on welfare after having previously been employed and took on a stupidly large Mortgage.

Or were self-employed and lost their job where they got nothing at all.

More likely scenario for starvation is if you were self-employed to be honest.
You get nothing ...

not true

you still entitled to jsa and ra/morgage relief

i was self employed before the bubble burst.

when i ran out of work i got jsa to the tune of 188 per week + ra.

self employed people that are out of work aren't able to get jsb though.

you have to give them a copy of your accounts for the previous tax year but they will give you jsa once your app is processed... in the meantime you can get money from the CWO

Stark · 15-05-2012 01:48PM

stupidusername wrote: »

Obviously the situation needs to be investigated but sure everyone is going to jump to conclusions about the mother/parents,and her spending habits.

No worse than jumping to the conclusion that the State is at fault yet again.

LittleBook · 15-05-2012 01:48PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

To put this in some perspective - Senator Deirdre Clune, also from Cork, claimed 814.58 a week in unvouched expenses alone just for March 2012 - if she keeps that up for every week it adds up to 42,358.29 a year. Perhaps should we check her bins for fags boxes and booze?http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/members/psa/psas201203.pdf

OT but it's interesting that if you sort all the unvouched expenses by region, the amount the good senators claimed is the exact same per senator per region in nearly every case ... i.e. Dublin = 1,354.16, Region 4 = 3,101.33, Region 5 = 3,133.33, etc.

Coincidence? Or are they just taking the total amount allowed in unvouched expenses and dividing it up over the course of the year ... whether it's a valid expense or not.

stovelid · 15-05-2012 01:52PM

Haven't read all the posts - I don't have the forebearance to weather all the single mother/dole vitriol but the dole is enough to feed kids if you buy the right food (although a lot of people don't have this knowledge). Even if it is far from the life of Reilly that the usual morons insist. I know somebody whose kids were not eating properly (albeit not to this extent) and It's because the mother was a chronic alcoholic who thankfully got help eventually.

Dudess · 15-05-2012 01:53PM

Stark wrote: »

stupidusername wrote: »

Obviously the situation needs to be investigated but sure everyone is going to jump to conclusions about the mother/parents,and her spending habits.

No worse than jumping to the conclusion that the State is at fault yet again.

I wouldn't say it's the state's fault either - could be neglect or serious lack of education or serious problems in the home, but the comments about how she's squandering her benefits on booze and fags without any proof whatsoever are just horrible.

Dan_Solo · 15-05-2012 01:53PM

muppetkiller wrote: »

Unless they are now on welfare after having previously been employed and took on a stupidly large Mortgage.

Isn't there some way to get SW to pay the interest?

Logical Fallacy · 15-05-2012 01:55PM

Dudess wrote: »

I wouldn't say it's the state's fault either - could be neglect or serious lack of education, but the comments about how she's squandering her benefits on booze and fags without any proof whatsoever are just horrible.

Exactly, it's the main problem with issues like this, people seek answers in line with their politics, rather than finding the real cause of the problem and fixing it.

If the mother has been spending her money on booze and smokes that is a problem and the child is obviously at risk something needs to be done.

If the mother is doing her very best, has severe issues understanding budgets, child nutrition and fiscal responsibility that is a problem and the child is at risk something needs to be done.

The important issue here is the health of the child, not point scoring from either side of the line.

thebigbiffo · 15-05-2012 01:58PM

Abi wrote: »

Nobody here knows anything about this womans financial situation, and what other bills she has to pay. Do we know how long she is receiving SW? could she have been working, lost her job, and now have existing loan payments still on her plate? BTW, that rate of payment is slightly out now, the payment has been reduced because the SW pay out fuel allowance from Oct to early Apr only. This is ridiculous imo, because we're still getting hail and high winds in fcuking May.

But no no... Dole scrounging bitch she must be :rolleyes:

you're plain scraping around for excuses here. 'other bills'? 'loan repayments'? you're f'ucking kidding me. priorities like.

"oh yes mr bank manager, here this weeks loan repaym - johnny, johhhhnnnyyy noooooooooo"

eh, maybe all other bills can go f'uck themselves until she's fed her child from allowances...allowances which any mother in this would certainly be getting. if she's diverting them to anything above her child she deserves the abuse she's got already in this thread.

Bannasidhe · 15-05-2012 01:58PM

CJC999 wrote: »

Myself and my wife are both working. We have one child in creche 5 days a week and we have considerably less than that left each week after childcare and mortgage are paid. Out of the remaning money we have to pay for fuel, electricity, petrol, car tax/insurance, clothing etc etc. Our daughter never goes hungry. The woman can cry poverty all she wants, the simple fact is she has more than enough to ensure the child is fed properly. She hasnt done so and has neglected the child.

This woman did not cry poverty - a child collapsed in school because she is not getting enough nutrients. The people who deal with poverty like Bernardos and SVdeP say this is a growing problem. Personally, I will heed those at the coalface who say there are children in Ireland going hungry and not be quick to judge someone's parenting skills -or lack thereof- until we have some facts.

I do agree that the cost of childcare urgently needs to be addressed - but that is a separate issue.

mcko · 15-05-2012 01:58PM

I am always quick to defend people who are on Social Welfare, many an argument at work about it.This sounds like neglect rather than poverty.

Poverty is a terrible thing and all the poor give their kids is poverty, there is a terrible lack of education amongst the poorest in our society, I am not condemning people but is a fact of life, you can feed a family well very cheaply these days.
I shop in Aldi and Lidel and I see people with trolleys overflowing with processed and frozen food that could be made fresh for a lot less.
My family do not eat fillet steak every day but we cook good meals with cheaper cuts.
Again I go back to education, if you are brought up on frozen chips what do you think you will feed your kids.
I don't agree with vouchers as people on social welfare suffer enough indignity as it is.

This situation as more about lack of education than anything else.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 15-05-2012 01:59PM

Seachmall wrote: »

Would you be willing to provide us with this lady's income and expenditure over the past 6 months so we too can come to the informed conclusion you have?

I'm sorry but thats priviledged information.

Seachmall · 15-05-2012 02:00PM

CJC999 wrote: »

I'm sorry.

I accept your apology.

Born to Die · 15-05-2012 02:03PM

There are so many gobsh!tes posting on this forum it beggars belief.

The immediate reaction is to attack the people on the dole, as irresponsible wasters without even a hint of a back story on this case.
Does anyone know if the mother of this child is healthy, has she mental health issues that have not been treated. Is she another statistic that has been over looked by the Health services of this country.

The holier than thou attitude from people posting here makes me sick, people that should be thankful each day that their circumstances allow them to live reasonably well, whether financially, physically and emotionally.

I have for a period raised a child on my own on SW and it is very difficult, the slightest outlay of money that you haven't budgeted for can send you into a spiral of struggling for weeks or months. Outside of that the emotional stress is difficult but I was lucky that I had an extended family around me to help.
This poor woman may not have this.

Take a second and think before you attack, it's the human thing to do. Your keyboard isn't going anywhere.

Frank Black · 15-05-2012 02:06PM

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I'm still at a loss to see how someone can be starving in Ireland.

Aldi does 2kg of spuds for 39c or something for example.
Even if you only have a few euros a month for grub, its still possible to cook a heap of a feed for buttons.

And do these people not have relatives or friends?
If I had someone I knew starving, I'd gladly give them 39c for a bag of spuds.

EDIT: its now gone up to 65c for 2kg of spuds
http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/product_range/product_range_21722.htm

I have this nagging feeling that we've tried this 'let's just live on potatoes' thing before.

Dan_Solo · 15-05-2012 02:06PM

mcko wrote: »

This situation as more about lack of education than anything else.

Much as we might aspire to all our kids being surgeons and theroretical physicists, I think it's time we had the old Home Economics back as a mandatory subject, and starting at a young age too.

Born to Die · 15-05-2012 02:08PM

black francis wrote: »

I have this nagging feeling that we've tried this 'let's just live on potatoes' thing before.

Let's all go back to 1845.

munchkin_utd · 15-05-2012 02:12PM

black francis wrote: »

I have this nagging feeling that we've tried this 'let's just live on potatoes' thing before.

I was using potatoes as an example of a cheap source of sustinance.
Pasta and rice are pretty much at the same price point too.
And supermarkets also do great deals on vitamin rich fruit and veg so you can get a balanced diet for cheap if you focus on whats on offer.

people get caught up in the "Ireland is so dear" crap that just isnt true if you examine it, which was another angle on why I like quoting concrete examples of cheapness in ireland, even if in this case it might seem a little riské in a historical context of hunger in Ireland!

Nothingbetter2d · 15-05-2012 02:15PM

munchkin_utd wrote: »

people get caught up in the "Ireland is so dear" crap that just isnt true if you examine it, which was another angle on why I like quoting concrete examples of cheapness in ireland, even if in this case it might seem a little riské in a historical context of hunger in Ireland!

food is cheap in ireland but energy costs are ridiculously high

johnr1 · 15-05-2012 02:15PM

Seachmall wrote: »

So you're not a seven year old, nor the father of a seven year old, and thus don't incur the expenses fathering a seven year old incurs, but you feel your experience to be directly comparable to this situation and are confident enough to close the book on the matter concluding it must be negligence?

Which of those expenses of having a seven year old do you think should come before food for that same seven year old?

Tbh those of you trying to pin this on the state instead of where the blame rightly belongs- with the people who collect benefits based on having this child, are at best seriously deluded, but then, that's par for the course in Irl 2012, blame someone else, and avoid personal responsibility for anything.

You're right I don't have children, but by Christ if I had they wouldn't be hungry, no matter who I had to take mone/food from including myself.

Abi · 15-05-2012 02:15PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

you're plain scraping around for excuses here. 'other bills'? 'loan repayments'? you're f'ucking kidding me. priorities like.

"oh yes mr bank manager, here this weeks loan repaym - johnny, johhhhnnnyyy noooooooooo"

eh, maybe all other bills can go f'uck themselves until she's fed her child from allowances...allowances which any mother in this would certainly be getting. if she's diverting them to anything above her child she deserves the abuse she's got already in this thread.

I'm not defending her, what I was trying to demonstrate was that there are variables to this, and that nobody here knows the full story. Shes unlikely to be eating right herself with an empty fcuking fridge.

The child is undernourished not malnourished, or worse still dead. Now that this has come to light, her situation can be investigated and she might get the help she needs.

One way or the other, the child will get the attention it needs now. I want to hear the mothers side of the story too, rather than just join the 'booze and fags' brigade :rolleyes:

Padraig Mor · 15-05-2012 02:16PM

Dudess wrote: »

They're neither generous nor "more than enough".

LOL - you're kidding right? If a child is undernourished in this country, it is not for the lack of social welfare support. Standard entitlements are absolutely more than sufficient to feed and clothe etc children properly.

Seachmall · 15-05-2012 02:17PM

johnr1 wrote: »

those of you trying to pin this on the state

Before addressing my point please try to comprehend it.

It would save us both hassle.

Grumpypants · 15-05-2012 02:20PM

Padraig Mor wrote: »

What did the mother spend her generous social welfare entitlements - which are more than enough to feed a family - on?

Perhaps things like the mortgage, gas, esb bills, life insurance, house insurance, TV licence you know things that have to be paid.

Not everyone on social welfare gets a free house and a bag of cash every week.

Born to Die · 15-05-2012 02:21PM

Anyone know how the kid is now?
I hope the child is alright and getting the correct care. I also hope that this instance will help provide the mother with whatever she needs and is provided the professional assistance that is needed in this case.

I hope no one begrudges her that as it might cost a few quid.

My personal feeling is that there is a mental health issue behind this story.

Wile E. Coyote · 15-05-2012 02:22PM

Abi wrote: »

Exactly. Cheap fcuking potatoes is not going to nourish a child.

Maybe not but add in broccoli, apples, carrots, parsnip and pears all @ 65c each (€3.90), 2 sliced pans at @ 85c (€1.70), 1kg Mince (€3.69), 4 homemade burgers (€2.89), 4 chicken kievs (€3.90), BBQ chicken thighs and drumsticks (€1.99), 10 eggs (€1.85). Throw in some milk, cornflakes and you've more than enough food to keep the two of them going and you've spent a grand total of €25. There's no excuse for any child to go hungry.

Abi wrote: »

Nobody here knows anything about this womans financial situation, and what other bills she has to pay.

Other bills don't come into it when your child is starving. You put food in your childs belly before you pay anything else out.

Grumpypants · 15-05-2012 02:28PM

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

Maybe not but add in broccoli, apples, carrots, parsnip and pears all @ 65c each (€3.90), 2 sliced pans at @ 85c (€1.70), 1kg Mince (€3.69), 4 homemade burgers (€2.89), 4 chicken kievs (€3.90), BBQ chicken thighs and drumsticks (€1.99), 10 eggs (€1.85). Throw in some milk, cornflakes and you've more than enough food to keep the two of them going and you've spent a grand total of €25. There's no excuse for any child to go hungry.

Other bills don't come into it when your child is starving. You put food in your childs belly before you pay anything else out.

When i was out of work i sometimes had to survive on 3 euro a week! So your budget is blown before the first line and all i have to eat all week is raw broccoli and carrots.

I often had to have weetabix for breakfast, lunch and dinner thats the reality most on here lucky enough to be in work or still sponging at home don't seem to realize.

charlemont · 15-05-2012 02:30PM

Born to Die wrote: »

There are so many gobsh!tes posting on this forum it beggars belief.

The immediate reaction is to attack the people on the dole, as irresponsible wasters without even a hint of a back story on this case.
Does anyone know if the mother of this child is healthy, has she mental health issues that have not been treated. Is she another statistic that has been over looked by the Health services of this country.

The holier than thou attitude from people posting here makes me sick, people that should be thankful each day that their circumstances allow them to live reasonably well, whether financially, physically and emotionally.

I have for a period raised a child on my own on SW and it is very difficult, the slightest outlay of money that you haven't budgeted for can send you into a spiral of struggling for weeks or months. Outside of that the emotional stress is difficult but I was lucky that I had an extended family around me to help.
This poor woman may not have this.

Take a second and think before you attack, it's the human thing to do. Your keyboard isn't going anywhere.

True, These threads really flush them out. For all we know that unfortunate child's mother had to choose between a large bill or food, Don't worry about the gob****e's though as karma takes care of people like that, Sure they thought the bubble would never burst and to deflect blame from themselves they blame the dole, Nigerians, Travellers, drugs and single mothers instead.

thebigbiffo · 15-05-2012 02:30PM

Abi wrote: »

I'm not defending her, what I was trying to demonstrate was that there are variables to this, and that nobody here knows the full story. Shes unlikely to be eating right herself with an empty fcuking fridge.

The child is undernourished not malnourished, or worse still dead. Now that this has come to light, her situation can be investigated and she might get the help she needs.

One way or the other, the child will get the attention it needs now. I want to hear the mothers side of the story too, rather than just join the 'booze and fags' brigade :rolleyes:

the only other excuse for having an under-nourished child in this country is mental health. Lets be clear here what we’re talking about – this article was about poverty and SW (as it mention that’s her income).

the article and the people quoted within set that tone. Someone is quoted as saying ‘she had an empty fridge and couldn’t afford to restock it till Thursday’. THIS is why the reaction in this thread is as it has been. There is NO excuse in this day and age for that.

SW payments are very generous – more than enough to feed your child and yourself. What would ‘her side of the story’ be, if she’s not a proper headbanger that is? it’s going to be ‘I put *insert whatever here* before my child’s wellbeing’ and that in my mind makes her scum, end of story, no matter what that *insert whsatever here is*...but my vote's on dutch gold and amber leaf.

‘Undernourished’ child collapses in Cork

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