‘Undernourished’ child collapses in Cork

Bannasidhe · 15-05-2012 01:30PM

Typical - a child collapses because they were "severely undernourished" and out come the bash those on SW brigade with comments about fags and drink despite knowing nothing about the financial circumstances of this family.

The State pays a total of 64.80 a week for a child (universal payment of 140 pm CB given to every child in the State & 29.80 S.W. allowance) plus 188 p.w for their parent = 252.80- this has to cover all expenses, including paying 30 euro pw if they are in private rented accommodation or a similar amount if they are in LA housing.

So, A single parent with one child has 232.80 a week to fund all fuel costs (heating, cooking, lighting), PLUS food, PLUS clothes PLUS those little contributions towards our 'free' primary education which have to be paid - and heaven forbid poor children should have a toy or two. Yes- some people are struggling. Yes- we have children going hungry in this country. Yes - there are far too many people in this country who would prefer to judge those in trouble.

To put this in some perspective - Senator Deirdre Clune, also from Cork, claimed 814.58 a week in unvouched expenses alone just for March 2012 - if she keeps that up for every week it adds up to 42,358.29 a year. Perhaps should we check her bins for fags boxes and booze?http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/members/psa/psas201203.pdf

touts · 15-05-2012 01:30PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

And how the fúck is someone ment to get to Dublin from Cork if they can't afford a 65c bag of spuds?

Anyone who wants to waste the children's allowance on booze or fags and objects to the state forcing them to spend it on their children can walk as far as I care.

Nothingbetter2d · 15-05-2012 01:30PM

eirn wrote: »

Not convinced spuds from Aldi are the answer. Do we really want to get into a situation where poor people in this country are dependent on potatoes? That possibly wouldn't bode well given our history...

its ok... an taisce in carlow have developed blight resistant spuds

Logical Fallacy · 15-05-2012 01:31PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

The vouchers would just become a form of currency for people who wanted to spend them on booze/fags/drugs/gambling.

Good luck with trying to police such a system without adding another layer of expensive state surveillance and bureaucracy.

Indeed, vouchers seem like a good idea but they probably are not. I imagine the children of parents with dependencies on booze/drugs/gambling would just end up worse off as a nice scheme would roll out from criminals where you could get your booze/drugs whatever for stamps, but they would only give have the monetary worth of the stamps or less.

Seachmall · 15-05-2012 01:32PM

johnr1 wrote: »

I'm a grown man

So you're not a seven year old, nor the father of a seven year old, and thus don't incur the expenses fathering a seven year old incurs, but you feel your experience to be directly comparable to this situation and are confident enough to close the book on the matter concluding it must be negligence?

Cee-Jay-Cee · 15-05-2012 01:32PM

The mother is getting €140 a month in child benefit. That alone is enough to feed the child properly for the month. The child has been neglected.

touts · 15-05-2012 01:32PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

The vouchers would just become a form of currency for people who wanted to spend them on booze/fags/drugs/gambling.

Good luck with trying to police such a system without adding another layer of expensive state surveillance and bureaucracy.

Not if it is done right and if the fear of god is put into shop owners and staff. Once 5 or 10 of them are serving lengthy sentences in Mountjoy the rest will insist on photo id to accompany the Children's Allowance Card or Voucher.

prinz · 15-05-2012 01:34PM

Not suprised in the slightest after an experience I had just this weekend in a Spar on the northside of Dublin. Four kids ranging in age from about 3-6, the oldest one with a stack of change that came to about €2.50. The smaller ones had all picked what they wanted, and she didn't have enough for theirs and hers, so she chose to put back what she had chosen for herself and got nothing. It turned out she was still short but the sound man on the desk left her off with the balance. Turns out they had been sent out to buy dinner for themselves by Mammy and Daddy who were in the pub a few doors up watching the premiership wrap up.

Dan_Solo · 15-05-2012 01:35PM

munchkin_utd wrote: »

And do these people not have relatives or friends?

I agree with the rest of your post actually, but this bit is ridiculous. Why bother with any social welfare at all then if charity can look after the needy?

Nothingbetter2d · 15-05-2012 01:35PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Typical - a child collapses because they were "severely undernourished" and out come the bash those on SW brigade with comments about fags and drink despite knowing nothing about the financial circumstances of this family.

The State pays a total of 64.80 a week for a child (universal payment of 140 pm CB given to every child in the State & 29.80 S.W. allowance) plus 188 p.w for their parent = 252.80- this has to cover all expenses, including paying 30 euro pw if they are in private rented accommodation or a similar amount if they are in LA housing.

So, A single parent with one child has 232.80 a week to fund all fuel costs (heating, cooking, lighting), PLUS food, PLUS clothes PLUS those little contributions towards our 'free' primary education which have to be paid - and heaven forbid poor children should have a toy or two. Yes- some people are struggling. Yes- we have children going hungry in this country. Yes - there are far too many people in this country who would prefer to judge those in trouble.

To put this in some perspective - Senator Deirdre Clune, also from Cork, claimed 814.58 a week in unvouched expenses alone just for March 2012 - if she keeps that up for every week it adds up to 42,358.29 a year. Perhaps should we check her bins for fags boxes and booze?http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/members/psa/psas201203.pdf

the kid's father also has to contribute.... either via bank xfer if he is working or having a portion of his dole taken and given to the mother's benefit claim

also how can some people on welfare with kids CAN manage to get by on what you listed above?

Logical Fallacy · 15-05-2012 01:35PM

touts wrote: »

Not if it is done right and if the fear of god is put into shop owners and staff. Once 5 or 10 of them are serving lengthy sentences in Mountjoy the rest will insist on photo id to accompany the Children's Allowance Card or Voucher.

Indeed, because such a system has not failed with regard to almost every other crime and we don't have a Welfare System that has more than a few loopholes and issues as it is.

But I'm sure this would be implemented with no problems.

Easier to fix what is broken than introduce a new broken system to replace it. If the government could get the SW system working correctly to begin with I might have more faith.

Dravokivich · 15-05-2012 01:36PM

touts wrote: »

Anyone who wants to waste the children's allowance on booze or fags and objects to the state forcing them to spend it on their children can walk as far as I care.

All who have said that are speculating. Nothing has been disclosed to say as much. It is also mentioned in the article that this affects 1 in 5 kids with this instance being put forward as a focal point to highlight a wider issue. Given the scale from that, it would appear to me somewhere down the line we are outpricing ourselves.

Seachmall · 15-05-2012 01:37PM

CJC999 wrote: »

The mother is getting €140 a month in child benefit. That alone is enough to feed the child properly for the month. The child has been neglected.

Children aren't rabbits. They need more than food.

If the child was going to school butt-naked but fat as a fiend people would still be screaming negligence.

If the child was going to school pimped out and fat but lived in a box people would still be screaming negligence.

There's obviously a balance to be met and clearly the balance hasn't been met here. Why that balance hasn't been met we do not know.

Logical Fallacy · 15-05-2012 01:39PM

People also need to consider that the needs of a young child nutritionally are very different to those of an adult. It is easier for a growing and developing child to be at risk of undernourishment than an adult due to the demands that growth and development places on the child.

No real like for like comparisons so far within this thread.

Would be better to hear from parents raising children on welfare to get an idea as to what it's like.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 15-05-2012 01:40PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So, A single parent with one child has 232.80 a week to fund all fuel costs (heating, cooking, lighting), PLUS food, PLUS clothes PLUS those little contributions towards our 'free' primary education which have to be paid - and heaven forbid poor children should have a toy or two.

Myself and my wife are both working. We have one child in creche 5 days a week and we have considerably less than that left each week after childcare and mortgage are paid. Out of the remaning money we have to pay for fuel, electricity, petrol, car tax/insurance, clothing etc etc. Our daughter never goes hungry. The woman can cry poverty all she wants, the simple fact is she has more than enough to ensure the child is fed properly. She hasnt done so and has neglected the child.

Bannasidhe · 15-05-2012 01:40PM

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

the kid's father also has to contribute.... either via bank xfer if he is working or having a portion of his dole taken and given to the mother's benefit claim

Some father's don't pay. Simple fact.

stovelid · 15-05-2012 01:41PM

A sad but frequent hallmark of life in a third world region, I guess.

minidazzler · 15-05-2012 01:41PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The State pays a total of 64.80 a week for a child (universal payment of 140 pm CB given to every child in the State & 29.80 S.W. allowance) plus 188 p.w for their parent = 252.80- this has to cover all expenses, including paying 30 euro pw if they are in private rented accommodation or a similar amount if they are in LA housing.

So, A single parent with one child has 232.80 a week to fund all fuel costs (heating, cooking, lighting), PLUS food, PLUS clothes PLUS those little contributions towards our 'free' primary education which have to be paid - and heaven forbid poor children should have a toy or two. Yes- some people are struggling. Yes- we have children going hungry in this country. Yes - there are far too many people in this country who would prefer to judge those in trouble.

Food is far more important than heating or lights. If your heating gets cut off you can wrap yourself in blankets if it gets cold. If your food gets cut off you become the subject of an AH thread.

And 232 is plenty a week to buy food for two people and in fact there would be money left over.

Electricity shouldn't cost so much either if it's only two people, in my house there are 6 people living here, and with however many computers and TV's and other electronics and it's somewhere in the region of 40 euro a week. For two people, it should be far less.

There is a heating allowance for social welfare recipients in Winter, and it's generally not needed much in summer.

Without knowing the full details, I am gonna assume this is neglect, simply because there is NO excuse whatsoever to let a child go hungry, the mother has money from the state, the first thing she should do is ensure there is enough food to last the week.

Seachmall · 15-05-2012 01:42PM

CJC999 wrote: »

the simple fact is she has more than enough to ensure the child is fed properly.

Would you be willing to provide us with this lady's income and expenditure over the past 6 months so we too can come to the informed conclusion you have?

Chuck Stone · 15-05-2012 01:42PM

touts wrote: »

Not if it is done right and if the fear of god is put into shop owners and staff. Once 5 or 10 of them are serving lengthy sentences in Mountjoy the rest will insist on photo id to accompany the Children's Allowance Card or Voucher.

You know they can't even prevent mobile phones and drugs from being smuggled into prisons and yet you think a system that involves tens of thousands of people would not be ripe ground for avaricious scum to make an extra few quid?

Parents with issues would simply trade their nappies and potatoes for cans or drugs.

It's a bad idea.. worse, it would probably end up harming the very children it was supposed to protect.

Nothingbetter2d · 15-05-2012 01:42PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Some father's don't pay. Simple fact.

by law they have to.... if they dont pay bring them to court

dmc17 · 15-05-2012 01:42PM

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Aldi does 2kg of spuds for 39c or something for example.

EDIT: its now gone up to 65c for 2kg of spuds
http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/product_range/product_range_21722.htm

Bloody inflation!

Born to Die · 15-05-2012 01:43PM

Padraig Mor wrote: »

What did the mother spend her generous social welfare entitlements - which are more than enough to feed a family - on?

Hope you are well today for tomorrow it may be different.

Seachmall · 15-05-2012 01:43PM

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

if they dont pay bring them to court

How much does that cost?

And how much is a P.I. to track them down if they've vanished into the night?

dsmythy · 15-05-2012 01:44PM

Seachmall wrote: »

Would you be willing to provide us with this lady's income and expenditure over the past 6 months so we too can come to the informed conclusion you have?

If her expenditure is in any way ridiculous we might actually get to see it reported at some point.

Benicetomonty · 15-05-2012 01:45PM

Its a sad truth that parents are often the last people who should be having kids.

My name is URL · 15-05-2012 01:45PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

You know they can't even prevent mobile phones and drugs from being smuggled into prisons and yet you think a system that involves tens of thousands of people would not be ripe ground for avaricious scum to make an extra few quid?

Parents with issues would simply trade their nappies and potatoes for cans or drugs.

It's a bad idea.. worse, it would probably end up harming the very children it was supposed to protect.

It happens in the States all the time. Why buy food when you can buy foodstamps for half the price?

Nothingbetter2d · 15-05-2012 01:45PM

Seachmall wrote: »

How much does that cost?

And how much is a P.I. to track them down if they've vanished into the night?

nothing if your on welfare... free legal aid n all. the costs get pinned on the offending father or mother if the father has custody of the child.

GetWithIt · 15-05-2012 01:46PM

prinz wrote: »

Not suprised in the slightest after an experience I had just this weekend in a Spar on the northside of Dublin. Four kids ranging in age from about 3-6, the oldest one with a stack of change that came to about €2.50. The smaller ones had all picked what they wanted, and she didn't have enough for theirs and hers, so she chose to put back what she had chosen for herself and got nothing. It turned out she was still short but the sound man on the desk left her off with the balance. Turns out they had been sent out to buy dinner for themselves by Mammy and Daddy who were in the pub a few doors up watching the premiership wrap up.

In fairness it was a fairly exciting finish. Hard to blame them really.

muppetkiller · 15-05-2012 01:46PM

The only reason I could see someone starving in this country is if they actually are working but on low income employment.
No medical cards , No massive rent allowance , possible mortgage etc...

If they are on welfare it probably is neglect....probably. Unless they are now on welfare after having previously been employed and took on a stupidly large Mortgage.

Or were self-employed and lost their job where they got nothing at all.

More likely scenario for starvation is if you were self-employed to be honest.
You get nothing ...

‘Undernourished’ child collapses in Cork

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