Travellers street racing with horses, Gardai involved

Patrick2010 · 11-05-2012 02:21PM

MagicSean wrote: »

If you are arrested it will be for identification or charging only. In a case involving multiple vehicles and drivers there needs to be an investigation before anyone can be charged and so there will be no arrest made until the investigation is complete. There is no power to arrest for the investigation.

.

So why weren't they arrested for charging then when its clear so many were driving dangerously??
There were a lot of people and cars involved in that incident. Are you saying the guards can identify each and every one of them?. If one of the guys driving on the wrong side of the road is unknown to them and just drove away he won't be charged is that right?
On the video they were all pulled in together discussing the bet after the race, why didn't the guards interview them there, check for tax etc.?

MagicSean · 11-05-2012 02:29PM

micropig wrote: »

Yeah, I was banged up for doing 51 in a 50km/h zone

How about this?:p

Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994
Disorderly conduct in public place.

5.—(1) It shall be an offence for any person in a public place to engage in offensive conduct—

(a) between the hours of 12 o'clock midnight and 7 o'clock in the morning next following, or

(b) at any other time, after having been requested by a member of the Garda Síochána to desist.

(2) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500.

(3) In this section “offensive conduct” means any unreasonable behaviour which, having regard to all the circumstances, is likely to cause serious offence or serious annoyance to any person who is, or might reasonably be expected to be, aware of such behaviour.

It's a good effort but as you can see the Garda must request they stop the behaviour and the request must be clear. This was not the case as the Gardaí had no chance to talk to them.

Patrick2010 wrote: »

So why weren't they arrested for charging then when its clear so many were driving dangerously??
There were a lot of people and cars involved in that incident. Are you saying the guards can identify each and every one of them?. If one of the guys driving on the wrong side of the road is unknown to them and just drove away he won't be charged is that right?
On the video they were all pulled in together discussing the bet after the race, why didn't the guards interview them there, check for tax etc.?

A charge for dangerous driving requires the Garda to submit an investigation file and get a direction to prosecute. the drivers can be tracked through their reg numbers if they are not already knwon.

Turpentine · 11-05-2012 02:48PM

MagicSean wrote: »

It's a good effort but as you can see the Garda must request they stop the behaviour and the request must be clear. This was not the case as the Gardaí had no chance to talk to them.

Of course. I'm sure the organisers thought the Gardai were trying to join in on the race and when they tried to box one of the horses in, sure they were only getting into the spirit of the competition.

MagicSean · 11-05-2012 02:57PM

Turpentine wrote: »

Of course. I'm sure the organisers thought the Gardai were trying to join in on the race and when they tried to box one of the horses in, sure they were only getting into the spirit of the competition.

unfortunately courts don't make assumptions like regular people.

Turpentine · 11-05-2012 03:04PM

MagicSean wrote: »

unfortunately courts don't make assumptions like regular people.

So what constitutes a clear request? Would they have to be already stopped on the side of the road so the Gardai could clearly tell them they should stop??

Surely a squad car trying to get in your way so you can't continue clearly conveys that the guards want you to stop?

micropig · 11-05-2012 03:06PM

MagicSean wrote: »

unfortunately courts don't make assumptions like regular people.

OK surely when the vans where driving 4 abreast to stop the Gardai getting to the racer they were guilty of this?
Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994 section 19
3) Any person who resists or wilfully obstructs a peace officer acting in the execution of his duty or a person assisting a peace officer in the execution of his duty, knowing that he is or being reckless as to whether he is, a peace officer acting in the execution of his duty, shall be guilty of an offence.

Anyway, to stop the race the Gardai should just have formed a roadblock up ahead, instead of trying to be like Starksy & Hutch:D

micropig · 11-05-2012 03:08PM

Turpentine wrote: »

So what constitutes a clear request? Would they have to be already stopped on the side of the road so the Gardai could clearly tell them they should stop??

Surely a squad car trying to get in your way so you can't continue clearly conveys that the guards want you to stop?

I wonder would that stand up in court....I didn't know the Gardai was trying to stop me. Here's a video of him trying to box me in sirens and all

Turpentine · 11-05-2012 03:10PM

micropig wrote: »

I wonder would that stand up in court....I didn't know the Gardai was trying to stop me. Here's a video of him trying to box me in sirens and all

"Sorry, I had the radio on really loud, I didn't see them there"

micropig · 11-05-2012 03:13PM

Turpentine wrote: »

"Sorry, I had the radio on really loud, I didn't see them there"

Didn't they smash a lads window in Mayo because he couldn't hear them asking him to roll it down?

They should have got these Garda on the case:p

MagicSean · 11-05-2012 03:24PM

Turpentine wrote: »

So what constitutes a clear request? Would they have to be already stopped on the side of the road so the Gardai could clearly tell them they should stop??

Surely a squad car trying to get in your way so you can't continue clearly conveys that the guards want you to stop?

The problem is you are mixing up two acts, public order and road trafic. The public order is not meant for traffic situations. You should look up last years public order court cases against the M3 protestors. Nearly all prosecutions were thrown out because of the wording used by the Gardaí when making request and demands.

Sky King · 11-05-2012 03:28PM

Didn't they smash a lads window in Mayo because he couldn't hear them asking him to roll it down?

The general consensus on that is that he was being an uncooperative cnut and trying to provoke a reaction because he knew he had the camera.

The should have smashed the window, smashed the camera, then smashed his head, in that order.

NakedNNettles · 11-05-2012 03:30PM

micropig wrote: »

Didn't they smash a lads window in Mayo because he couldn't hear them asking him to roll it down?

They should have got these Garda on the case:p

First time seeing that, looks like he turned up to provoke (camera on the ready), possibly already known to the Gardai too.

micropig · 11-05-2012 03:34PM

NakedNNettles wrote: »

First time seeing that, looks like he turned up to provoke (camera on the ready), possibly already known to the Gardai too.

:pac: And the racers weren't

They had a camera at the ready and possibly already known to Gardai (actually are known to Gardai, otherwise Gardai could have stopped them to establish identification)

Was he endangering the lives of others?

Turpentine · 11-05-2012 03:56PM

MagicSean wrote: »

The problem is you are mixing up two acts, public order and road trafic. The public order is not meant for traffic situations. You should look up last years public order court cases against the M3 protestors. Nearly all prosecutions were thrown out because of the wording used by the Gardaí when making request and demands.

What, in your opinion, should the Gardai have done in this case that would have constituted a clear request to stop?

NakedNNettles · 11-05-2012 03:56PM

micropig wrote: »

:pac: And the racers weren't

?

Sure they're only bringing a few ponies for a run, where's the harm in that? Used to see it the whole time when I was living at home in the West.

I see more uproar on this thread then I ever saw against crooked developers, bankers and politicians. Where are the squad cars for those lads, theyv'e done more damage to the whole Irish population then a couple of lads out racing ponies on the Mallow to Cork road.

Stark · 11-05-2012 04:04PM

Oh **** off. If I had a penny for every time I had to hear that "what about the bankers" ****e...

NakedNNettles · 11-05-2012 04:11PM

Stark wrote: »

Oh **** off. If I had a penny for every time I had to hear that "what about the bankers" ****e...

I totally agree with you, I would be a rich man myself too.

Fair play to you, you're definately spot on there,

an excellent point, sound lad that you are.

I'd lock the whole lot of them up, send the horses to the glue shop and scrap them chariots, that would learn them.

paddyismaddy · 11-05-2012 04:20PM

Vinta81 wrote: »

Those travlers live up near where I work in Hollyhill in Cork. My bus driver said he recognised at least 2 or 3 of them You should see them with the horses on the street right outside Apple It's awful

they prob raced the bus driver at some stage

NakedNNettles · 11-05-2012 04:26PM

I tried to race a bus driver once on a tricycle, had the legs going like the clappers.

Ghost Buster · 11-05-2012 05:46PM

NakedNNettles wrote: »

Sure they're only bringing a few ponies for a run, where's the harm in that? Used to see it the whole time when I was living at home in the West.

I see more uproar on this thread then I ever saw against crooked developers, bankers and politicians. Where are the squad cars for those lads, theyv'e done more damage to the whole Irish population then a couple of lads out racing ponies on the Mallow to Cork road.

Sure road traffic accidents and deaths are all a bit of crack at the end of the day........

westendgirlie · 11-05-2012 06:24PM

I'm getting confused about arrest laws here.

If I am speeding along the road and a squad car spots me, puts on their sirens and motions for me to pull over but I continue driving, am I right in thinking that they don't really need to follow me as they would have identified me from my car reg and will charge/summons me for speeding accordingly?

If the above is the case, why do the the Gardai still chase cars till they eventually stop?

Patrick2010 · 11-05-2012 07:24PM

I asked the same question but didn't get an answer but yes that seems to be the answer. So if a bunch of us decided to race around a suburban road overtaking each other on the wrong side of the road we wouldn't be arrested our regs would just be taken and charges would follow. Thats assuming they were genuine...

lividduck · 11-05-2012 07:26PM

westendgirlie wrote: »

I'm getting confused about arrest laws here.

If I am speeding along the road and a squad car spots me, puts on their sirens and motions for me to pull over but I continue driving, am I right in thinking that they don't really need to follow me as they would have identified me from my car reg and will charge/summons me for speeding accordingly?

If the above is the case, why do the the Gardai still chase cars till they eventually stop?

Because the driver and the registered owner may not be one and the same!

westendgirlie · 11-05-2012 07:32PM

lividduck wrote: »

Because the driver and the registered owner may not be one and the same!

Exactly! Which means that there was no excuse as to why the Gardai did not arrest the people involved in the you tube clip.

Cassidy28 · 11-05-2012 07:36PM

A chap on horse and cart just gone flying by my house there a few minutes ago, I was outside and was about to say how it going, and he shouted i'm not a traveler and i'm not racing :eek:.

micropig · 11-05-2012 08:02PM

Cassidy28 wrote: »

A chap on horse and cart just gone flying by my house there a few minutes ago, I was outside and was about to say how it going, and he shouted i'm not a traveler and i'm not racing :eek:.

Was he a garda?:pac:

Cassidy28 · 11-05-2012 08:12PM

micropig wrote: »

Was he a garda?:pac:

Well by the speed of this fella, I doubt it

oppenheimer1 · 11-05-2012 09:27PM

micropig wrote: »

Wake Island

Perfect

Too luxurious, I'd go for here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall

NakedNNettles · 12-05-2012 08:45AM

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Sure road traffic accidents and deaths are all a bit of crack at the end of the day........

That's not funny. You need to take a serious look inside your head.

Many's a one has been killed on irish roads due to negligent behaviour.

jack presley · 12-05-2012 10:24AM

It's made it on TV in the States now. Dan Lebatard's show on ESPN were having a good laugh about it.

Travellers street racing with horses, Gardai involved

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