Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

Hannibal · 11-05-2012 12:37PM

Both Rodallega and Diamé are leaving Wigan on frees this summer, both play in positions we need to strengthen and are internationals for Colombia and Senegal. I personally thought they were probably Wigan's two best players before this season.

Rodallega had two impressive seasons at Wigan but hasn't had a run in the side this season and had two seperate injuries ruling him out for for a month each, he's nearly 27.

Diamé is nearly 25, but hasn't really started for Wigan since returning from the ANC at the start of February. Since then he is generally brought on to shore things up near the end of games.

Are they good enough?

Hannibal · 11-05-2012 12:40PM

Slattsy wrote: »

5 million and Henderson, final offer.

for Defoe?? that would be lunacy to let Henderson go, he's been getting better all season and he's 21. An offer of £16m+ and we might consider it

amiable · 11-05-2012 12:44PM

Dotsey wrote: »

Both Rodallega and Diamé are leaving Wigan on frees this summer, both play in positions we need to strengthen and are internationals for Colombia and Senegal. I personally thought they were probably Wigan's two best players before this season.

Rodallega had two impressive seasons at Wigan but hasn't had a run in the side this season and had two seperate injuries ruling him out for for a month each, he's nearly 27.

Diamé is nearly 25, but hasn't really started for Wigan since returning from the ANC at the start of February. Since then he is generally brought on to shore things up near the end of games.

Are they good enough?

Rodallega has only ever scored 24 goals for Wigan. Not good enough IMHO.
He'll probably join a promoted club or a club like Fulham.

I think you answered your own question on Diame. Not good enough to start for Wigan.

SlickRic · 11-05-2012 12:46PM

Dotsey wrote: »

Are they good enough?

no, we need to be improving on what we have, not merely backing it up, which is all they would do.

only Victor Moses would improve us from Wigan, or perhaps Al-Habsi given Reina's terrible year-long form.

from those bottom end EPL teams, there are no real stand-out players that would improve the team. Hoilett, and as i say, Moses are really the only ones that i'd take.

there are certainly no CMs, and in terms of strikers, Steven Fletcher is the only one i'd get, and he wouldn't even improve us. he'd just give us another option.

we need to be looking abroad.

martingriff · 11-05-2012 12:46PM

In relation to Henderson I know he has had not had a good season but he is young and I doubt he thought he be playing as much as he was. He has potential. But i remember a midfielder who plays for us who got dogs abuse (including myself) for his crap play. I think he is brazilian. God what is his name again!!!!

amiable · 11-05-2012 12:49PM

I think Victor Moses may be all huff and puff with no end product.
I'm undecided about Hoillet yet. He has talent but is he good enough to get to the top I'm not sure. I have a feeling Bayern Munich will take a chance on him. Not sure if he'll succeed if he goes there.

Slattsy · 11-05-2012 12:50PM

Personally I'd let Henderson go, I don't think he cuts the mustard to be honest. I can see a case for keeping him though..

I'd be interested in Hoilette from Blackburn now they're relegated, I think he's a very good player. May not cost too much.

mike65 · 11-05-2012 12:50PM

Matt Jarvis don't forget Matt Jarvis, can dribble a ball and beat a man in a way that Downing can only dream about these days.

DeFoe at the right price would be interesting, he's still nimble enough to be able to partner either Carroll or Suarez or indeed work the line alone with the likes of Gerrard, a good winger or attacking full back providing the ammo.

amiable · 11-05-2012 12:50PM

martingriff wrote: »

In relation to Henderson I know he has had not had a good season but he is young and I doubt he thought he be playing as much as he was. He has potential. But i remember a midfielder who plays for us who got dogs abuse (including myself) for his crap play. I think he is brazilian. God what is his name again!!!!

Doni?

Hannibal · 11-05-2012 12:52PM

martingriff wrote: »

In relation to Henderson I know he has had not had a good season but he is young and I doubt he thought he be playing as much as he was. He has potential. But i remember a midfielder who plays for us who got dogs abuse (including myself) for his crap play. I think he is brazilian. God what is his name again!!!!

People only criticised that Brazilian because when he played his name wasn't Mascherano or Alonso, no one bothered to look at how he played. The truth is he's probably better than Mascherano now, he's more tactical and disciplined whereas Masch was always rash and flying into tackles, Masch would cover the ground quicker than him though.

Hannibal · 11-05-2012 12:56PM

mike65 wrote: »

Matt Jarvis don't forget Matt Jarvis, can dribble a ball and beat a man in a way that Downing can only dream about these days.

DeFoe at the right price would be interesting, he's still nimble enough to be able to partner either Carroll or Suarez or indeed work the line alone with the likes of Gerrard, a good winger or attacking full back providing the ammo.

Downing got into a full sprint in the FA Cup final against I think Ivanovic and he lookied lightning when he got going, most of our players say he's one of the quickest in the team. You would never notice it from his game, he doesn't seem to know how to create openings to use his pace.

I agree about Defoe and that's what I think he'd be perfect for, he fits of the bill of the type of forward that could blend with both Carroll and Suarez, Defoe doesn't always deliver though and tends to have good runs and bad runs of form all through his career.

Sappy404 · 11-05-2012 12:56PM

Dotsey wrote: »

Continued investment means you don't stand still and you should always be looking at the market and players ready to improve, it doesn't mean he was looking for millions. He wanted to know his budget and know exactly what he had to work with so he could approach players early. He also talked about investing in youth and that financially we couldn't compete with Chelsea, United and City and we had to be cleverer than them, these wouldn't be the quotes of a chequebook manager.

Think back to the time he had a row with Hicks and Gillett in late 2007 because they didn't want to know about the upcoming January window and were trying to bring in Klinsmann as manager, Rafa went into an interview and basically answered "As always I am focused on training and coaching my team" to every question. Rafa knew they didn't have a clue about running a football club and they thought that you spend money every couple of years but the truth is a team needs continued investment and needs to constantly looked at and improved where possible.

You think the cheap players bought by Rafa only came for CL football? We are Liverpool not Spurs or Everton ffs. They all came from smallish clubs like Deportivo, Villarreal, Real Sociedad etc

Rafa is a top class manager and any club would be lucky to have him plus he genuinely loves this club and city. If we are to change manager I do think he'd be close to the top of the list. The danger is to not sack Dalglish and then end up with average managers who don't care about the club and only want Liverpool on their CV's ala Hodgson or O'Neill etc.

I just want to clarify, I consider Rafa a legend for what he did with the club and I have no doubt that he's an incredible manager. There's literally nobody I'd rather have managing the club if Kenny should leave, but only under the right circumstances.

I'm struggling to find it on youtube, but watching a stream of the WBA match a few weeks ago, there was a managerial profile of Benitez on at half-time. Clips of interviews, match highlights, achievements etc. There was one interview clip, it looked like it was from LFC TV, wherein he states how difficult it is for mid-level clubs to break into the Champions League because they don't have the players. He's fairly forthcoming in stating that his tactics only really work because he has the right calibre of player to do what he wants them to do. His point was that other managers in the PL aren't as fortunate as he is, but it makes a lot of sense when you look at the noises he's made at Liverpool and Inter about getting the players he wants.

I'm not for a second implying that he's not entitled to complain when he's not able to sign who he wants, or that he's a lesser manager for it, but if the circumstances aren't in place for him to make the ideal return (i.e. unless FSG would give him regular backing in the from of investment) then I'm not sure the time is right.

LuckyLloyd · 11-05-2012 12:58PM

slingerz wrote: »

Defoe looking for Spurs exit, could be a shrewd signing for Liverpool give them the goalscorer they've missed and he'd link up well with Carroll and Suarez in theory.

You really do love yourself some Premiership players!

Personally, I'd be avoiding the EPL this summer given our limited budget. The trend in recent years has been players from European leagues moving for lower than expected fees.

LuckyLloyd · 11-05-2012 01:02PM

I'm not saying it would be a reason to hire him but, in the event that Benitez did return this summer, if we went through a two year process with him and were in the same place we are now we could let him go and the club would be free as a bird to move on for ever more satisfied that there is no former manager with a sense of unfinished business.

ush · 11-05-2012 01:03PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm not saying it would be a reason to hire him but, in the event that Benitez did return this summer, if we went through a two year process with him and were in the same place we are now we could let him go and the club would be free as a bird to move on for ever more satisfied that there is no former manager with a sense of unfinished business.

You forgot Hodgson.

amiable · 11-05-2012 01:04PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm not saying it would be a reason to hire him but, in the event that Benitez did return this summer, if we went through a two year process with him and were in the same place we are now we could let him go and the club would be free as a bird to move on for ever more satisfied that there is no former manager with a sense of unfinished business.

What about Souness?

only kidding

Hannibal · 11-05-2012 01:12PM

Sappy404 wrote: »

I just want to clarify, I consider Rafa a legend for what he did with the club and I have no doubt that he's an incredible manager. There's literally nobody I'd rather have managing the club if Kenny should leave, but only under the right circumstances.

I'm struggling to find it on youtube, but watching a stream of the WBA match a few weeks ago, there was a managerial profile of Benitez on at half-time. Clips of interviews, match highlights, achievements etc. There was one interview clip, it looked like it was from LFC TV, wherein he states how difficult it is for mid-level clubs to break into the Champions League because they don't have the players. He's fairly forthcoming in stating that his tactics only really work because he has the right calibre of player to do what he wants them to do. His point was that other managers in the PL aren't as fortunate as he is, but it makes a lot of sense when you look at the noises he's made at Liverpool and Inter about getting the players he wants.

I'm not for a second implying that he's not entitled to complain when he's not able to sign who he wants, or that he's a lesser manager for it, but if the circumstances aren't in place for him to make the ideal return (i.e. unless FSG would give him regular backing in the from of investment) then I'm not sure the time is right.

He was complaining at Liverpool because he could see us going backwards and having to sell our important players to be able to free up funds to try compete.

At Inter he didn't buy one player, the only players that arrived were loan returns of Biabiany and Coutinho. As we know the Inter squad is very old and during his six months there was 44 injuries to first team players due in part to their exploits the pervious season and the World Cup. At Inter he missed out on one Alexis Sanchez for around £10m because Moratti didn't rate him. Similarly at Liverpool we missed out on Ramsey, Pato and Dani Alves for similar reasons due to people not rating them or not willing to spend the extra £4m in Alves's case which would've been the difference between him and Pennant

Kess73 · 11-05-2012 01:22PM

willowthewisp wrote: »

The Clubs stance has always been that they deal directly with the HFSG and this is because they were the first group formed at the time of the disaster.
Their point has been that they can’t be seen to engage with every single group formed and HFSG contained all the families at the beginning.

Also HFSG is more a support group, and the HJC are more political. The club don’t want to be involved in political campaigns.

The simple point is that the club should have contacted all 96 families.

What any group stands for is irrelevent in this case. In fact the group names, agenda, whatever should mean nothing in all of this. One letter to each family or one organised group meeting for a member of each family to attend would have done it. There would be no need for banners or group names, just the club contacting the families as people who share in a common loss.

Even a letter to each family that stated the club wished to honour the 96 by placing the eternal flames alongside 96 on the back of the shirt would have done. Instead what happened is some families were contacted and the rest heard nothing. Nobody would have objected to what was on the shirt. All would have given it their blessing imho, but it does leave a bit of a sour taste in the mouth that the club seems to have chosen who it contacted based on what group the families were involved with.

All the families are equal in my eyes because they all suffered a terrible loss that day. But with the release of the new kit it seems that some losses were not worth the token gesture of club contact whereas other losses were.

Some on here might not understand why that hurts, and it is nothing to do with hubris, but it has everything to do with feeling that the family member and friends you lost were not worth the club's time on this and I know that there are a number of other families in Liverpool today that feel the same way.

whatawaster · 11-05-2012 01:27PM

SlickRic wrote: »

from those bottom end EPL teams, there are no real stand-out players that would improve the team. Hoilett, and as i say, Moses are really the only ones that i'd take.

there are certainly no CMs, and in terms of strikers, Steven Fletcher is the only one i'd get, and he wouldn't even improve us. he'd just give us another option.

we need to be looking abroad.

James McCarthy would be definitely be our second best central midfielder after Lucas. He would probably cost in excess of 10m though and I'm sure better value is to be had on the continent

wonderfullife · 11-05-2012 01:30PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The tragedy is the most significant moment in the club's history - far more important (dreadfully so) than the winning or losing of any football match or series of matches. If kids who were born many years after it happened take an interest in Liverpool, or people from overseas start following the club - there should be some simple way to draw attention to the event. Hopefully kids or people outside Liverpool not familiar with the event will see the 96 and ask, "what's that?" and go find out.

Anyone who wants to involve themselves with the club should be aware of the tragedy and never forget those who shamefully lost their lives as a result of it.

surely this implies having the "96" somewhere on the club shirt for eternity? i.e. every season it must be there, otherwise that argument is moot.

Also, where on the shirt should the Heysel disaster be remembered? As much as Hillsborough was an out-and-out tragedy, so was Heysel, yet i don't see any mention of the Juventus fans who died on this forum. A plaque at Anfield is simply not enough imo. Perhaps the numbers "85" and "89" either side of a symbol on the back of the shirt to represent the years in question would be a nice touch.

Slimity · 11-05-2012 01:33PM

Dotsey wrote: »

Both Rodallega and Diamé are leaving Wigan on frees this summer, both play in positions we need to strengthen and are internationals for Colombia and Senegal. I personally thought they were probably Wigan's two best players before this season.

Rodallega had two impressive seasons at Wigan but hasn't had a run in the side this season and had two seperate injuries ruling him out for for a month each, he's nearly 27.

Diamé is nearly 25, but hasn't really started for Wigan since returning from the ANC at the start of February. Since then he is generally brought on to shore things up near the end of games.

Are they good enough?

I'd definitely take Diame on a free.

He's a big physical presence, decent enough on the ball and would offer what we've badly missed this season, a backup for Lucas.

To my mind, this would be an example of a clever low cost signing that would improve our squad leaving more money for purchasing genuine top class players.

It would also allow us to sell one of our many midfielders that don't quite measure up.

whatawaster · 11-05-2012 01:35PM

I would have no problem with replacing Spearing with Diame to be honest. It would be a big upgrade imo.

As long as we also sign that quality CM we desperately need (to replace Adam)

Hannibal · 11-05-2012 01:41PM

Slimity wrote: »

I'd definitely take Diame on a free.

He's a big physical presence, decent enough on the ball and would offer what we've badly missed this season, a backup for Lucas.

To my mind, this would be an example of a clever low cost signing that would improve our squad leaving more money for purchasing genuine top class players.

It would also allow us to sell one of our many midfielders that don't quite measure up.

That's what I was thinking myself about Diamé.

We could get him on a relative low wage due to the carrot of him getting an opportunity to play for a big club, plus we could limit the contract to say one or two years with the club having the option to extend if things went well.

Leiva · 11-05-2012 01:45PM

@SkySportsMobile: Jermain Defoe admits that he asked to leave Tottenham in January and that a loan to Liverpool was a real possibility #LFC #THFC

The guy is desperate to join us .

mike65 · 11-05-2012 01:47PM

Leiva wrote: »

The guy is desperate to join us .

I'm sure we can get him for 20 million if not more!

Sappy404 · 11-05-2012 01:48PM

Dotsey wrote: »

He was complaining at Liverpool because he could see us going backwards and having to sell our important players to be able to free up funds to try compete.

Yes, like I said he was entitled to complain and him complaining doesn't reflect badly on his managerial abilities.

Dotsey wrote: »

At Inter he didn't buy one player, the only players that arrived were loan returns of Biabiany and Coutinho. As we know the Inter squad is very old and during his six months there was 44 injuries to first team players due in part to their exploits the pervious season and the World Cup. At Inter he missed out on one Alexis Sanchez for around £10m because Moratti didn't rate him. Similarly at Liverpool we missed out on Ramsey, Pato and Dani Alves for similar reasons due to people not rating them or not willing to spend the extra £4m in Alves's case which would've been the difference between him and Pennant

We didn't sign Alves/Barry/Aguero and god knows how many other players because Rafa wasn't given the funds. That's my point - would he have the funds now if he came back? Would we be as attractive to these players as an 8th place Europa League team if we only offered average wages, even if Benitez was back at the helm? Would Benitez be able to get the team back in CL contention next season if he came in tomorrow and the club didn't have the funds or the status to bring these players in? My gut feeling is no.

As I say though, if FSG are going to put £50m+ into the first team this summer and offered competitive wages (say, what we're paying Maxi, Kuyt, Aquilani and Cole who'll hopefully be leaving), I'd be delighted if it was Benitez doing the buying.

joe123 · 11-05-2012 01:50PM

Dotsey wrote: »

People only criticised that Brazilian because when he played his name wasn't Mascherano or Alonso, no one bothered to look at how he played. The truth is he's probably better than Mascherano now, he's more tactical and disciplined whereas Masch was always rash and flying into tackles, Masch would cover the ground quicker than him though.

Ah now just because Lucas has progressed into a quality player you cant forget how poor he was for the first two seasons.

He was just unlucky in the way he was pretty much thrown in at the deep end. Dont forget at one stage he was a liability. He gave away constant fouls in dangerous areas and he was afraid to turn with the ball and play it forward.

As I said he has become a great player for us but I just hate it when people come out with "I always knew Lucas was quality". He had a very tough few years. People didnt like Lucas at the time for the above reasons not because his name wasnt Alonso.

Kess73 · 11-05-2012 01:53PM

wonderfullife wrote: »

surely this implies having the "96" somewhere on the club shirt for eternity? i.e. every season it must be there, otherwise that argument is moot.

Also, where on the shirt should the Heysel disaster be remembered? As much as Hillsborough was an out-and-out tragedy, so was Heysel, yet i don't see any mention of the Juventus fans who died on this forum. A plaque at Anfield is simply not enough imo. Perhaps the numbers "85" and "89" either side of a symbol on the back of the shirt to represent the years in question would be a nice touch.

How do you think the bulk of the Juve support would react to that, and more importantly the families of the 39 would feel?

You will never see the victims of that day commemorated on a Liverpool shirt imho for one very simple reason, and that is because the families of the 39 would not allow it. The plaque at Anfield took a long time to come about and even it was touch and go for a long time until those families agreed to it.

As for Heysel not being mentioned on this forum. You are wrong. It gets mentioned every year and anytime anyone who does not know about it asks a question, people always try to point them in the right direction for information on what happened.

Unfortunately, and like Hillsborough, it often gets used by people looking to bait or score points rather than getting treated with the respect and sorrow it should.

ush · 11-05-2012 01:56PM

Quote:
@SkySportsMobile: Jermain Defoe admits that he asked to leave Tottenham in January and that a loan to Liverpool was a real possibility #LFC #THFC

Leiva wrote: »

The guy is desperate to join us .

Are LFC that desperate though?

SlickRic · 11-05-2012 01:59PM

whatawaster wrote: »

James McCarthy would be definitely be our second best central midfielder after Lucas. He would probably cost in excess of 10m though and I'm sure better value is to be had on the continent

he was the only other one i considered, but I think we have to give Henderson a chance.

McCarthy would be a bit of a sideways step IMO.

but he would, at the very least, add depth in that position. plus he can play deep or further forward.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

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