Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

copacetic · 11-05-2012 11:05AM

Handsome Bob wrote: »

@kess

Are there not family members on the HFSG though? Plus, isn't the relationship between LFC and HFSG longstanding?

I can't find the LFC statement, but I think this hinges on whether or not they stated that they consulted "all" family members. If they did say all, they are undoubtedly in the wrong. If they didn't, I'm sorry to say that I don't see the issue.

It's a shame that LFC ignores the HJC though, no question about that.

Even the HJC statement doesn't claim they said 'all'. The post ealier on calling the club liars for claiming 'all' is ironically a lie.

A number of families would be disgusted at any suggestion that the HJC represent them, but it doesn't put 'some' families in all it's PR. Personally i dont see a problem with that, but apparently it's one rule for them and another for the rest.

kingshankly · 11-05-2012 11:06AM

In fairness to the club and their owners it's the first time I seen a significant inclusion on the jersey to remember the 96 in the 23 years since it happened

LuckyLloyd · 11-05-2012 11:11AM

Orando Broom wrote: »

I had posted this in jerseys2012/13, probably more appropriate here given the discussion ongoing.

I see there is no '96' on the inside of the official photo of the jersey but there was on a previous picture? I presume it was photoshopped on the previous picture.

Do you Liverpool fans think if it were on the jersey that it is a little cynical to use the deaths of those people as a marketing ploy to sell the jersey? It's not like the changed crest; it is an overt and direct reference. The jerseys are not solely for consumption in the Liverpool area but to markets where to be quite frank really know nothing about the Hillsborough disaster, I'd be talking about your average 14 year old Japanese or American boy. This situation is different to being mindful to a clubs history, people died and there are people living every day still with that loss.

My opinion would be that there would want to be a significant portion of the jersey price going to a memorial fund for me to be okay with that. That or make that Jersey a limited edition that could only be bought within the environs of Liverpool with a good portion of the sales of those jerseys going to any official charity associated with Hillsborough. Sell a global version without reference.

I'd argue that is exactly why there should be an element of remembrance on the club strip.

Kess73 · 11-05-2012 11:13AM

Handsome Bob wrote: »

@kess

Are there not family members on the HFSG though? Plus, isn't the relationship between LFC and HFSG longstanding?

I can't find the LFC statement, but I think this hinges on whether or not they stated that they consulted "all" family members. If they did say all, they are undoubtedly in the wrong. If they didn't, I'm sorry to say that I don't see the issue.

It's a shame that LFC ignores the HJC though, no question about that.

I know there are family members in both the HFC and HFSG, which is why I said the club should have consulted with both groups.

Cartman78 · 11-05-2012 11:14AM

mike65 wrote: »

Another executive level head gets lopped off.

Fenway Sports Group are continuing their restructuring at Liverpool after announcing that their director of communications, Ian Cotton, is to leave the club after 16 years.

Not before time - this guy must have literally been asleep at the wheel judging by the amount of PR snafus and gaffes coming out of Anfield this year

Speak Now · 11-05-2012 11:15AM

bluefinger wrote: »

I am the only one who can see a resemblance with the chinnese flag?

Bill Shankly like this........

'Chairman Mao has never seen a greater show of red strength.'

mike65 · 11-05-2012 11:15AM

I didn't know the club has such a role, which says it all i guess!

Orando Broom · 11-05-2012 11:20AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'd argue that is exactly why there should be an element of remembrance on the club strip.

Fair enough but your post doesn't really answer my question. Why is it important to educate these markets?

I'm conscious of where these discussions can go so I'll not pursue it any further after this, if that's ok, so your free to answer or ignore.

Kess73 · 11-05-2012 11:24AM

copacetic wrote: »

Even the HJC statement doesn't claim they said 'all'. The post ealier on calling the club liars for claiming 'all' is ironically a lie.

A number of families would be disgusted at any suggestion that the HJC represent them, but it doesn't put 'some' families in all it's PR. Personally i dont see a problem with that, but apparently it's one rule for them and another for the rest.

What are you waffling about ? That's a very ignorant comment to say that it is one rule for the HJC and another for all the rest.

Here is a bit more from the HJC for you

The kit design is not an issue. The fact that some families/groups were "contacted", yet others not, is.

I have already said that in my opinion all of the families should have been contacted not some. That means all those that are affiliated with the HJC, all those affilliated with HFSG, and all that have gone with Anne Williams.

If you don't think that the simple courtesy of contacting all 96 families should have happened, then just come out and say it. I think all should have been contacted.

As for the use of the word "all", well maybe you should go and find what wording a club representative used at the launch of the new kit before you go calling me a liar.

LuckyLloyd · 11-05-2012 11:27AM

Orando Broom wrote: »

Fair enough but your post doesn't really answer my question. Why is it important to educate these markets?

I'm conscious of where these discussions can go so I'll not pursue it any further after this, if that's ok, so your free to answer or ignore.

The tragedy is the most significant moment in the club's history - far more important (dreadfully so) than the winning or losing of any football match or series of matches. If kids who were born many years after it happened take an interest in Liverpool, or people from overseas start following the club - there should be some simple way to draw attention to the event. Hopefully kids or people outside Liverpool not familiar with the event will see the 96 and ask, "what's that?" and go find out.

Anyone who wants to involve themselves with the club should be aware of the tragedy and never forget those who shamefully lost their lives as a result of it.

Kess73 · 11-05-2012 11:30AM

Dr Galen wrote: »

Kess, correct me if I am wrong here, but HJC and HFSG don't exactly see eye to eye.

There is a long history there, and to be perfectly honest its not a debate that I'd ever want to claim to know lots about. I do know though that is a very emotive topic. I wouldn't ever judge one side or the other tbh, as a non-native, non directly affected Liverpool fan, I don't feel it is my place.

I can't seem to find an official statement from the club on this, so it's probably a bit premature to be judging their actions. I do find it strange though that the club doesn't seem to acknowledge HJC in the same way that it does for HFSG.

The HFSG came first. Then a portion split from it to form the HJC. Then Anne Williams split to do her thing.

There is no "right or wrong" group imho as all suffered terrible loss. My point is that the club should have consulted all 96 families, and if they were not going to do so, then they should have made sure that a club representative worded their statement better at the launch.

But the day is still quite young so I am sure that plenty will come out on other sites throughout the day and will be reposted on here, and maybe someone will have a youtube video to put up. Then copacetic can come back and back up his liar comment and his snide one rule for them and one for the rest comment.

LuckyLloyd · 11-05-2012 11:35AM

It seems fairly obvious to me that the club should treat all families (and representative groups of same) equally and take the time to do, say or write things three times (or 96 times) if that is what is required.

Kess73 · 11-05-2012 11:36AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It seems to me fairly obvious to me that the club should treat all families (and representative groups of same) equally and take the time to do, say or write things three times (or 96 times) if that is what is required.

And that is pretty much my point.

Dr Galen · 11-05-2012 11:39AM

There does seem to be an issue with the clarity of the message that came from the club regarding the new shirt and how they consulted those affected. I wonder if something like this was the straw that broke the camels back with regards to Ian Cotton?

Is there a reason why HJC doesn't get the same recognition from the club?

tok9 · 11-05-2012 11:42AM

Dr Galen wrote: »

There does seem to be an issue with the clarity of the message that came from the club regarding the new shirt and how they consulted those affected. I wonder if something like this was the straw that broke the camels back with regards to Ian Cotton?

Is there a reason why HJC doesn't get the same recognition from the club?

I was thinking the same. Some timing anyway.

LuckyLloyd · 11-05-2012 11:43AM

Let's be honest, based on the information we have to hand the man can have no complaints at losing his job given his performance over the past period. We can do an awful lot better with this stuff.

slingerz · 11-05-2012 11:55AM

Defoe looking for Spurs exit, could be a shrewd signing for Liverpool give them the goalscorer they've missed and he'd link up well with Carroll and Suarez in theory.

amiable · 11-05-2012 12:02PM

slingerz wrote: »

Defoe looking for Spurs exit, could be a shrewd signing for Liverpool give them the goalscorer they've missed and he'd link up well with Carroll and Suarez in theory.

He'll be 30 this year so unless he was a bargain I wouldn't go after him.
I'm not sure of his stats but he does seem to only score goals in snatches.
He seems to hit purple patches but equally goes through spells where he can't score.
There seems to be better value outside the EPL. Papiss Cisse was bought for roughly what Spurs would have wanted for Defoe in January.

Slattsy · 11-05-2012 12:02PM

slingerz wrote: »

Defoe looking for Spurs exit, could be a shrewd signing for Liverpool give them the goalscorer they've missed and he'd link up well with Carroll and Suarez in theory.

I'd bite the hand off Arry is he puts him up for sale. A very good finisher inside the box, exactly what we've been missing over the last few years.

mike65 · 11-05-2012 12:06PM

DeFoe has 18 months left on his contract.

amiable · 11-05-2012 12:13PM

mike65 wrote: »

DeFoe has 18 months left on his contract.

Surely it's 13 or 14 months left?
As in he's entering the last year as this season all but over?

slingerz · 11-05-2012 12:19PM

mike65 wrote: »

DeFoe has 18 months left on his contract.

Thats amazing mike but what are you saying this means exactly? I'd imagine he'd be a good signing and given the chances missed this season he'd certainly had put some of them away

missingtime · 11-05-2012 12:27PM

Any reason why Defoe hasnt featured for Spurs? Is it purely because of Adebayor?

mike65 · 11-05-2012 12:27PM

I just note that fact. What would he cost 8 million? 10 million?

D'Agger · 11-05-2012 12:30PM

We won't get good value for him - especially with wages I'd imagine, would prefer us looking to a younger alternative

A few years ago I would have liked Defoe with us tbh but not now

Slattsy · 11-05-2012 12:30PM

mike65 wrote: »

I just note that fact. What would he cost 8 million? 10 million?

5 million and Henderson, final offer.

ardinn · 11-05-2012 12:32PM

mike65 wrote: »

I just note that fact. What would he cost 8 million? 10 million?

I'd say less - But we should open with a €45m bid just to be sure!

amiable · 11-05-2012 12:33PM

mike65 wrote: »

I just note that fact. What would he cost 8 million? 10 million?

If he's approaching the final year of his contract I'd say around 6/7 million.
Probably still better value out there and the hints coming out of FSG are that it will be mostly young players bought this summer.

willowthewisp · 11-05-2012 12:34PM

The Clubs stance has always been that they deal directly with the HFSG and this is because they were the first group formed at the time of the disaster.
Their point has been that they can’t be seen to engage with every single group formed and HFSG contained all the families at the beginning.

Also HFSG is more a support group, and the HJC are more political. The club don’t want to be involved in political campaigns.

amiable · 11-05-2012 12:34PM

Slattsy wrote: »

5 million and Henderson, final offer.

I know you are joking but I personally wouldn't sell Henderson now.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

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