Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

thomond2006 · 09-05-2012 2:59pm

Carter may play 12 for the All Blacks depending on how his groin injury responds in training.

Ciaran-Irl · 09-05-2012 2:59pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

We've never played a three test tour in the Southern Hemisphere before. We've played a few two test tours but never three.

I woudn't call them nothing games but I do fear we're going to get hockeyed in two of the tests so it's hard to be enthusiastic about the games.

2/3 - You know what I mean though.

Do you think the lack on interest in these games stems from a lack of belief that we have a chance? I guess that is what has happened to Scotland's supporters. When they started losing all the time, the fans vanished. I suppose you're right. If we have a bad era in say, 10 years time and we start finishing at the bottom of the 6 Nations table, lots of people will stop caring about Irish rugby. Sad but true.

Our chances of winning isn't a factor in how much I support the team and how much I care about the result though. These matches are huge for me, and all the talk of trying out second tier players is horse**** in my mind. We need to play our strongest team and we need to go out there to win.

CatFromHue · 09-05-2012 3:19pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Carter may play 12 for the All Blacks depending on how his groin injury responds in training.

I think it relates to his kicking in that he's not up to it yet. He's been playing a few games at 12 for the Crusaders since he came back and is at 12 for this weekend again.

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

2/3 - You know what I mean though.

Do you think the lack on interest in these games stems from a lack of belief that we have a chance? I guess that is what has happened to Scotland's supporters. When they started losing all the time, the fans vanished. I suppose you're right. If we have a bad era in say, 10 years time and we start finishing at the bottom of the 6 Nations table, lots of people will stop caring about Irish rugby. Sad but true.

Our chances of winning isn't a factor in how much I support the team and how much I care about the result though. These matches are huge for me, and all the talk of trying out second tier players is horse**** in my mind. We need to play our strongest team and we need to go out there to win.

It's still a bit far out to be getting too much into the Ireland team at the moment as it's 4 weeks before we play the AB's. So maybe too early to be getting into the tour details just yet.

On the back of a poor 6 Nations and RWC, with not a huge amount of faith in our current team and management, going to play three games against a team we've never beaten before, and with memories of the last time we played them in NZ still fresh in our minds a lack of belief is one way of putting it.

Success for the Ireland team is huge I think as while Munster can claim a lot of credit for the current standing of Irish rugby the fact that the Ireland team were doing well at the time prob got more people interested in Irish rugby than just HEC success. Bizarrely the current success of the provinces is deflecting the short comings of the Irish team at the moment and until both the provinces and the national team starting doing poorly will we end up like Scotland.

I agree I'd rate winning a test series in New Zealand higher than winning a RWC. There could well be more winners of the RWC than there has been teams who've won series down there!

sock puppet · 09-05-2012 3:33pm

Unless Scotland can pull of a shock victory down south I'm pretty sure the AIs won't matter in terms of ranking

irishbucsfan · 09-05-2012 3:34pm

I'd love it if the IRFU limited everyone to 2 games max as a starter. It'd suit the players, it'd be in line with player welfare and it'd be great for the future.

ambid · 09-05-2012 3:56pm

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

I'm always amazed at how people can call these nothing games. They are massive games. We have never beaten New Zealand. A tour in the southern hemisphere was always a massive occasion. I would be happier winning two matches here than winning a Grand Slam in next year's 6 Nations.

Seriously?

I absolutely disagree with you as winning a tournament counts for far more than winning any individual test match. This team should be measuring their success in terms of medals won, and there are no meaningful medals on offer after these matches. It's such a shame these players only have one international tournament medal to their name.

The Six Nations is far more important than any individual test match or test series in my opinion.

Tox56 · 09-05-2012 3:58pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'd love it if the IRFU limited everyone to 2 games max as a starter. It'd suit the players, it'd be in line with player welfare and it'd be great for the future.

*everyone except Mike Ross.

sock puppet · 09-05-2012 4:06pm

ambid wrote: »

Seriously?

I absolutely disagree with you as winning a tournament counts for far more than winning any individual test match. This team should be measuring their success in terms of medals won, and there are no meaningful medals on offer after these matches. It's such a shame these players only have one international tournament medal to their name.

The Six Nations is far more important than any individual test match or test series in my opinion.

Don't agree with you there. The trophy for winning the Lions tour doesn't make the series win any more or less prestigious.

irishbucsfan · 09-05-2012 4:12pm

Tox56 wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'd love it if the IRFU limited everyone to 2 games max as a starter. It'd suit the players, it'd be in line with player welfare and it'd be great for the future.

*everyone except Mike Ross.

Mike Ross especially for me. We need to find an alternative. All it takes is a shoulder injury to potentially ruin an entire season for Ireland!

CatFromHue · 09-05-2012 4:41pm

sock puppet wrote: »

Unless Scotland can pull of a shock victory down south I'm pretty sure the AIs won't matter in terms of ranking

We're on 79.85 points at the moment. Samoa are currently approx 5 points behind us and Tonga are approx 4 points. So I think these games are the ones we should have in mind in relation to the next RWC rankings.

Tue 5/6 Pacific Nations Cup Samoa v Tonga, Nagoya
Tue 5/6 Pacific Nations Cup Japan v Fiji, Nagoya
Sun 10/6 Pacific Nations Cup Fiji v Samoa, Tokyo
Sun 10/6 Pacific Nations Cup Japan v Tonga, Tokyo
Sun 17/6 Pacific Nations Cup Japan v Samoa, Tokyo
Sat 23/6 Pacific Nations Cup Fiji v Tonga, Lautoka

If Samoa win all their games by 1-15 points they could get up to approx 77.74 points. If Tonga win all their games by 1-15 points they could get up to approx 78.75 points.

Sat 23/6 Scotland tour Samoa v Scotland, Apia
If Samoa win all their PNC games and this game they could get up to approx 78.06 points.

Argentina play Italy and 2 tests against France at home before the new 4 Nations. Assuming they beat Italy and win the second game against France (Argentina have won their last 4 games against France in Argentina so could well win both games) that would put them on approx 80.88 points. If Argentina lose all their away games and only beat Australia at home that could put them on around 80.85.

If we lose all three tests in NZ it makes no difference to our ranking points.
If Eng lose all their tests against SA they'd be on 82.09.
If Wales lose all their tests against OZ they'd be on 82.75.

So in November we could be looking at the bottom of the table looking like:

6) Fra 81.92
7) Arg 80.85
8) Ire 79.85
9) Tonga 78.75 / Samoa 78.06 (if either of these teams win all their summer games)

Sat 10/11 South Africa tour Ireland v South Africa
Sat 10/11 Australia tour France v Australia,
Sat 10/11 Tonga tour Italy v Tonga, Torino
Sat 10/11 Argentina tour Wales v Argentina
Fri 16/11 Samoa tour Wales v Samoa
Sat 17/11 Argentina tour France v Argentina
Sat 24/11 Samoa tour France v Samoa
Sat 24/11 Tonga tour Scotland v Tonga
Sat 24/11 Argentina tour Ireland v Argentina

If Tonga win both their games it could put them on around 80.05 (again that's assuming they win all their games in the summer).
If Samoa beat Wales but lose to France it could put them on around 79.34 (again that's assuming they win all their games in the summer).
If we lose to SA but beat Arg we could end up on around 79.74. If we lose both games we could be on about 77.12 points.

So our nightmare scenario is either Samoa or Tonga winning alot of games and us losing both our AI games. I'm also assuming that none of the wins are by more than 15 points and I'm not taking into account how Wales, England, and Fra do in the AI against the big 3.

CatFromHue · 09-05-2012 4:51pm

ambid wrote: »

Seriously?

I absolutely disagree with you as winning a tournament counts for far more than winning any individual test match. This team should be measuring their success in terms of medals won, and there are no meaningful medals on offer after these matches. It's such a shame these players only have one international tournament medal to their name.

The Six Nations is far more important than any individual test match or test series in my opinion.

I disagree. While there are no medals winning a test series in New Zealand is huge. You could prob count the teams that have done it on your hands, if not your hand, in the 120 years or so of the game.

Medals are great in all but these guys would be legends if they won a test series. Just look at what happened to the Munster team that beat the AB's 30 years ago.

Podge_irl · 09-05-2012 4:57pm

I'm with Ciaran on this one. Our record against the ABs is woeful, and a test match against them in NZ is no "friendly". I think a victory against them is vital in terms of psychology and I would certainly be thrilled with it.

phog · 09-05-2012 5:13pm

I'd love to see Ireland beat the All Blacks and would prefer it to happen in their back yard rather than Ireland, it would be a massive blow for them and a huge boost for Ireland.

molloyjh · 09-05-2012 5:15pm

I'm calling these games nothing games because I have no faith that we will win any of the games and so their ultimate impact on the teams fortunes in terms of seeding is nil. The potential impact of a poor AI series is far higher depending on other results. Therefore they are far more important games. Games against NZ are never really nothing games, but this year, being a seeding year, there are more important games. I'd much rather Fez miss this tour than the AIs.

CatFromHue · 09-05-2012 5:34pm

If we were to win one game in the series it would prob be enough for us to finish the year in the top, winning two could put us in the top 4.

Tox56 · 09-05-2012 5:39pm

NZ presumably won't play a full-team all 3 tests, are we going to do the same?

I can see us beating a second-string NZ team with our full team (and as a result not experimenting all series), but is that really the way you would want to finally beat them?

Cpt_Blackbeard · 09-05-2012 5:51pm

Tox56 wrote: »

NZ presumably won't play a full-team all 3 tests, are we going to do the same?

I can see us beating a second-string NZ team with our full team (and as a result not experimenting all series), but is that really the way you would want to finally beat them?

You can only beat what is on front of you. Everyone would obviously prefer to beat a full strength team, but getting our first win over them is huge regardless.

Thorn commented in an interview recently that NZ are very proud of their flawless history against Irish teams and that they are conscious of not wanting to be on the first team that loses to us. We get that 1 win and we get that monkey off our backs.

It may also serve as a wakening call to our group of current and future internationals. A "We are capable of beating the best, so now we can semi-realistically aspire to be the best" type of thing.

Probably reading to much into it, but worst case scenario its another win that greatly boosts our rankings. Best case? We kick on to becoming a top seed contender.

CatFromHue · 09-05-2012 7:47pm

Tox56 wrote: »

I can see us beating a second-string NZ team with our full team (and as a result not experimenting all series), but is that really the way you would want to finally beat them?

Usually we do well in the first of the games against the AB's as it's their first game of the season and are a bit rusty.

By the time the third test comes around the Kiwis may decide to rotate a few players but we'll also be absolutely knackered. While it may or may not be in the plan to rotate players on this tour I'd imagine by the third test it will be a necessity due to injury. At an estimate there will be three enforced changes from the team that starts the first test and that of the third test.

Assuming D'arcy and Ross play the first two tests than the third test will be their 28th and 31st game of their 11 month long season.

twinytwo · 09-05-2012 8:02pm

Tox56 wrote: »

NZ presumably won't play a full-team all 3 tests, are we going to do the same?

I can see us beating a second-string NZ team with our full team (and as a result not experimenting all series), but is that really the way you would want to finally beat them?

rest assured kidney will play full team for all games

thomond2006 · 09-05-2012 9:17pm

Realistically the first test is our best chance of a win over New Zealand, I fear they will only get better as the tests go on.

Carter at 12 might give us a chance, not because Carter is a bad 12 but because his replacement at 10 won't be half as good as he could be. Plus a partnership of Carter and Conrad Smith might mean the Kiwis lack power in the backs, something Ireland typically struggle against. Then again Carter and Smith are such class footballers they'll still find a way around us.

The ABs also have a selection issue at 9. They surely can't pick Weepu, he's been a complete flop at the Blues. Jimmy Cowan is going to Gloucester next season so his ABs career is probably over.

In the pack, Brad Thorn who has huge for them is gone plus Kaino is going to Japan, I don't know if that means he is unavailable for All Black selection. If he is missing that is a big blow. Plus McCaw is still getting back to full fitness with Crusaders, I doubt the rehab was easy given the alleged pain he played through at the World Cup.

Plus Hansen has been talking about playing Kahui at fullback, which would be strange considering Dagg is awesome.

CatFromHue · 09-05-2012 9:47pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

The ABs also have a selection issue at 9. They surely can't pick Weepu, he's been a complete flop at the Blues. Jimmy Cowan is going to Gloucester next season so his ABs career is probably over.

In the pack, Brad Thorn who has huge for them is gone plus Kaino is going to Japan, I don't know if that means he is unavailable for All Black selection. If he is missing that is a big blow. Plus McCaw is still getting back to full fitness with Crusaders, I doubt the rehab was easy given the alleged pain he played through at the World Cup.

The thing here is that NZ teams make up 4 of the top 8 and 3 of the top 6 positions in the Super XV's.

As far as I know Cowan isn't getting much game time at the Highlanders and I don't think Weepu is getting much at the Blues either so they do have other options at scrum half.

I think Kaino is out injured byt McCaw will have 4 games to get back up to match fitness before we play them.

thomond2006 · 09-05-2012 9:49pm

Ah that's right Kaino is out injured, forgot.

totallegend · 09-05-2012 9:52pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Plus Hansen has been talking about playing Kahui at fullback, which would be strange considering Dagg is awesome.

Listening to Newstalk tonight, they were talking about Earls' statement about wanting to play 13, Keith Wood made the point that maybe Ireland are too rigid about the numbers people have on their backs and we need to be a bit more flexible, and for some reason Kahui popped into my head. He seems to be pretty handy on the wing or at centre and I'd say he'd make a decent fist of it at FB too. The difference is that NZ will give it a lash and see what happens.

CatFromHue · 09-05-2012 9:58pm

Earls has played for Ireland at 15, 11, and 13.
D'arcy and BOD used to alternate between 12 and 13.
McFadden has played 13 and 11.
Dempsey, Kearney, Geordan Murphy have all played wing and full back for Ireland.
Even Sexton has played 10 and 12!

GerM · 09-05-2012 9:59pm

The results are in!

Supporters player of the year: Rob Kearney
Young player of the year: Peter O'Mahoney
Try of the year: Craig Gilroy
Unsung hero: Kev McLaughlin
Medal for Excellence: Mick O'Driscoll
Hall of fame: John Hayes
Player's player of the year: RONAN O'GARA!! No, seriously, Kearney got player's player of the year too, not O'Gara.

Big night for RK. Ferris can feel a little hard done by but Kearney has been superb throughout the season and, right now, is the standout 15 in the world for me.

Hagz · 09-05-2012 10:00pm

GerM wrote: »

Unsung hero: Kev McLaughlin

That's all I wanted to know. No player more deserving in my opinion.

Tox56 · 09-05-2012 10:01pm

McLaughlin is the absolute personification of an "unsung hero", hes vital to Leinster.

Edit: Got in before me..

thomond2006 · 09-05-2012 10:06pm

Feck the rest of them, the most important is John Hayes into the Hall of Fame.

LIGIND

Monty Burnz · 09-05-2012 10:54pm

GerM wrote: »

The results are in!

Updated results after a lost box of votes was found unopened, hidden underneath a pile of Leinster/Ulster Heineken Cup Final memorabilia:

Supporters player of the year: Ronan O'Gara
Young player of the year: Ronan O'Gara
Try of the year: Ronan O'Gara
Unsung hero: Ronan O'Gara
Medal for Excellence: Ronan O'Gara
Hall of fame: Ronan O'Gara
Player's player of the year: Ronan O'Gara

I have to say, I thought O'Mahony would get the young player award myself.

WeeBushy · 09-05-2012 10:57pm

Great results. Would've been nice to see Ferris recognised but every one of them were deserving if their award.

Especially Ronan O'Gara.

Fireball07 · 09-05-2012 11:10pm

GerM wrote: »

The results are in!

Supporters player of the year: Rob Kearney
Young player of the year: Peter O'Mahoney
Try of the year: Craig Gilroy
Unsung hero: Kev McLaughlin
Medal for Excellence: Mick O'Driscoll
Hall of fame: John Hayes
Player's player of the year: RONAN O'GARA!! No, seriously, Kearney got player's player of the year too, not O'Gara.

Big night for RK. Ferris can feel a little hard done by but Kearney has been superb throughout the season and, right now, is the standout 15 in the world for me.

All fair enough imo...

Kearney's performances are definitely worth of player of the year, despite Ferris. POM was the best young player.

As people have said, there's no one more suited to winning unsung hero than McLaughlin.

And of course, the Bull Hayes getting into the hall of fame is great news

What a man.

molloyjh · 10-05-2012 8:15am

GerM wrote: »

The results are in!

Supporters player of the year: Rob Kearney
Young player of the year: Peter O'Mahoney
Try of the year: Craig Gilroy
Unsung hero: Kev McLaughlin
Medal for Excellence: Mick O'Driscoll
Hall of fame: John Hayes
Player's player of the year: RONAN O'GARA!! No, seriously, Kearney got player's player of the year too, not O'Gara.

Big night for RK. Ferris can feel a little hard done by but Kearney has been superb throughout the season and, right now, is the standout 15 in the world for me.

Can't argue with any of those. Ferris has been top class this season all right but Kearney has been excellent since his return from injury. Delighted for Locky too. The guy has been such a workhorse for Leinster and so rarely gets the recognition for it.

artvandelay48 · 10-05-2012 8:57am

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Updated results after a lost box of votes was found unopened, hidden underneath a pile of Leinster/Ulster Heineken Cup Final memorabilia:

Supporters player of the year: Ronan O'Gara
Young player of the year: Ronan O'Gara
Try of the year: Ronan O'Gara
Unsung hero: Ronan O'Gara
Medal for Excellence: Ronan O'Gara
Hall of fame: Ronan O'Gara
Player's player of the year: Ronan O'Gara

I have to say, I thought O'Mahony would get the young player award myself.

Those results courtesy of Diageo! ;-)

bilston · 10-05-2012 9:58am

What exactly is the Medal of Excellence all about?

CIARAN_BOYLE · 10-05-2012 10:03am

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/rugby/players-choose-kearney-as-player-of-the-year-550878.html wrote:

Recently retired Mick O’Driscoll was awarded the inaugural IRUPA Hibernia College Medal for Excellence, which rewards on-field effort combined with off-field commitment to the game.

Thats the best description I can find

Quint2010 · 10-05-2012 10:08am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Feck the rest of them, the most important is John Hayes into the Hall of Fame.

LIGIND

John Hayes IS the hall of fame!

GerM · 10-05-2012 10:49am

bilston wrote: »

What exactly is the Medal of Excellence all about?

It is for the best behind the scenes player essentially. It is based on training, teamwork, work in the community etc.

siltirocker · 10-05-2012 1:40pm

GerM wrote: »

It is for the best behind the scenes player essentially. It is based on training, teamwork, work in the community etc.

Ah I see. Well then I can most definitely vouch for Ronan Loughney's nomination.

What community stuff did Micko do anyway? Great that they are awarding this award.

ray jay · 10-05-2012 3:33pm

siltirocker wrote: »

Ah I see. Well then I can most definitely vouch for Ronan Loughney's nomination.

What community stuff did Micko do anyway? Great that they are awarding this award.

Well he gave a very passionate performance for this charity event for a start.

CatFromHue · 11-05-2012 12:52am

I was just watching The Breakdown there and they showed highlights of the Connacht Glasgow game. In particular the fight McCarthy was involved in. He's been cited and I have to say I'd wouldn't be surprised if he gets banned. Five years ago nothing would have been thought of it, but if you take Shane Jennings got 12 weeks for having his hands in Nick Kennedy's face a couple of seasons back, McCarthy will get banned for a few games at least.

its_phil · 11-05-2012 1:04am

CatFromHue wrote: »

I was just watching The Breakdown there and they showed highlights of the Connacht Glasgow game. In particular the fight McCarthy was involved in. He's been cited and I have to say I'd wouldn't be surprised if he gets banned. Five years ago nothing would have been thought of it, but if you take Shane Jennings got 12 weeks for having his hands in Nick Kennedy's face a couple of seasons back, McCarthy will get banned for a few games at least.

Has it zoomed in or shown anything of infringing with someones eyes or face?

CatFromHue · 11-05-2012 1:48am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tegozDPkvyw

It's on Youtube.

fitz · 11-05-2012 6:47am

In the context of Quinny and Jennings bans, that doesn't look good for McCarthy.

Quint2010 · 11-05-2012 7:55am

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0511/1224315905500.html

Toland on why O'Gara shouldn't go to NZ..

...and in the other corner, Hugh Farrelly reckons "The view that Ronan O'Gara should be left at home is preposterous -- it's impossible to envisage Ireland beating the All Blacks for the first time this summer without the 35-year-old in the squad."

part time punk · 11-05-2012 9:08am

Quint2010 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0511/1224315905500.html

Toland on why O'Gara shouldn't go to NZ..

...and in the other corner, Hugh Farrelly reckons "The view that Ronan O'Gara should be left at home is preposterous -- it's impossible to envisage Ireland beating the All Blacks for the first time this summer without the 35-year-old in the squad."

Sad state of affairs when this common sense solution is labelled as a 'crazy thought'. And unfortunately Toland goes on to say that should anything happend to Sexton in NZ, O'Gara should be straight out on a plane. Don't think that would be great for Madigan/Keatley/Jackson. Still an article going in the right direction and saying what a lot of people are thinking so that's positive.

11-05-2012 9:14am

part time punk wrote: »

Sad state of affairs when this common sense solution is labelled as a 'crazy thought'. And unfortunately Toland goes on to say that should anything happend to Sexton in NZ, O'Gara should be straight out on a plane. Don't think that would be great for Madigan/Keatley/Jackson. Still an article going in the right direction and saying what a lot of people are thinking so that's positive.

I fully agree that ROG should be starting OH should Sexton not be available. The other options would be best placed to make appearances from the bench.

However, in a particularly funny way, Toland's criticisms of Madigan and Jackson's "inexperience" being touted as reasons for them not to travel, while simple mentioning that "Keatley is starting for Munster" is pretty telling about how this journalist sees the battle for selection being decided.

.ak · 11-05-2012 10:02am

Deleted User wrote: »

I fully agree that ROG should be starting OH should Sexton not be available. The other options would be best placed to make appearances from the bench.

However, in a particularly funny way, Toland's criticisms of Madigan and Jackson's "inexperience" being touted as reasons for them not to travel, while simple mentioning that "Keatley is starting for Munster" is pretty telling about how this journalist sees the battle for selection being decided.

That's one thing I picked up on also. He goes into detail about Mads and Jackson, but says nothing in regards to Keatley.

If Keatley travelled with a handful of Munster starts this season it'd be a farce.

The issue I have with both GT and Toland's point of view is that even though Toland is purposing someone else to travel, he still is labeling it as a 'crazy thought', where as everybody with a head on their body to knows something about Rugby has been urging it for the best part of a year. :rolleyes:

leftleg · 11-05-2012 10:17am

.ak wrote: »

The issue I have with both GT and Toland's point of view is that even though Toland is purposing someone else to travel, he still is labeling it as a 'crazy thought', where as everybody with a head on their body to knows something about Rugby has been urging it for the best part of a year. :rolleyes:

There's still plenty of posters on here that have been, and still are, championing ROG's Provincial and international cause.

Teferi · 11-05-2012 10:38am

leftleg wrote: »

There's still plenty of posters on here that have been, and still are, championing ROG's Provincial and international cause.

I've bolded the relevant part...

.ak wrote: »

where as everybody with a head on their body to knows something about Rugby has been urging it for the best part of a year. :rolleyes:

durkadurka · 11-05-2012 10:41am

Thing that gets me is this: Toland is a very good and respected analyst and former pro. I would venture that he knows more about the game than anyone in this forum.

Yet he says ROG is still playing well. And I can't see evidence for this.
Aside from the miracle drop goals I can't remember him playing that well in the last few months. I don't even hear that many Munster fans saying he's playing great.

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