What do Irish Catholics actually believe in?

lazygal · 03-05-2012 08:34AM #1

Not a bashing thread, more curiosity.
Any Irish 'Catholic' I know doesn't really follow or believe in a lot of the teachings. I know gay men who go to mass every week. I know friends of mine who use contraception and have sex before marriage. One woman even tried to argue that the host at communion is 'symbolic', and took grave offence when I pointed out if she believed that, she was Protestant. So why call yourself a Catholic if you disagree with or just don't follow most of the core teachings?

Sindri · 03-05-2012 08:39AM

Well mostly they are just 'cultural Catholics' and they also, I would think gain some comfort from it.

Lionel Messy · 03-05-2012 08:43AM

They believe in god, as far as i know.

chin_grin · 03-05-2012 08:43AM

Protestants don't believe in transubstantiation (the 'bread being turned in to the body of christ bit'). When I was growing up, still dough-headed and innocent I thought it was a metaphor....then I was told that 'No, it's the actual body'. It's one of the many reasons why "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid..." :pac:

That and I believe organised religion to epitomise evil on this earth. It's caused us to look down on our fellow man\woman and wars over pieces of land. Yes, I may sound very 'tree huggery', but I just can't grow dreadlocks or go a day or two without showering.

Run_to_da_hills · 03-05-2012 08:44AM

That the Pope is their savior instead of Jesus Christ on this planet

Duggys Housemate · 03-05-2012 08:46AM

The substance changes not the accidents. Not that most Catholics know that either.

Seachmall · 03-05-2012 08:47AM

lazygal wrote: »

One woman even tried to argue that the host at communion is 'symbolic', and took grave offence when I pointed out if she believed that, she was Protestant.

That irks me. I find that irksome.

allibastor · 03-05-2012 08:47AM

that the priests are above being answerable to the law??

chin_grin · 03-05-2012 08:48AM

Seachmall wrote: »

That irks me. I find that irksome.

How's that word of the day calendar going? :pac:

haminka · 03-05-2012 08:49AM

I think it's pretty much individual. I know Catholics who are really very good people and believe in God and the teachings of the Church plus Fatima and Lourdes miracle and I know people whose only relationship with God is to worry who to invite for their child's Confirmation bash ...

Feathers · 03-05-2012 08:49AM

lazygal wrote: »

Not a bashing thread, more curiosity.
Any Irish 'Catholic' I know doesn't really follow or believe in a lot of the teachings. I know gay men who go to mass every week. I know friends of mine who use contraception and have sex before marriage. One woman even tried to argue that the host at communion is 'symbolic', and took grave offence when I pointed out if she believed that, she was Protestant. So why call yourself a Catholic if you disagree with or just don't follow most of the core teachings?

IMO, there is the dogma of the Church (3 persons, 1 god; transubstantiation, etc) and then there are rules of the Church (don't eat meat on a Friday, take your hat off in the church, etc.)

& disagreeing with the second doesn't make you not a Catholic, although I'd agree that your friend talking about the symbolism of the Eucharist sounds protestant in her beliefs. Baffles me why people say the likes of the guys talking about women priests should join the CoI though. It doesn't mean they don't believe the articles of faith within the church.

Seachmall · 03-05-2012 08:56AM

chin_grin wrote: »

How's that word of the day calendar going? :pac:

It's quite louche*.

*May or may not be correct use of the word "louche".

chin_grin · 03-05-2012 09:00AM

Seachmall wrote: »

It's quite louche*.

*May or may not be correct use of the word "louche".

Good morning, that's a nice tnetennba.

Dravokivich · 03-05-2012 09:03AM

The holy trinity that is each leaf on a shamrock and Paddy.

Penn · 03-05-2012 09:03AM

The cultural Catholic's Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of Heaven and earth,
of all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from Heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he arose again
in accordance with the scriptures;
he ascended into Heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.

Amen.

chin_grin · 03-05-2012 09:04AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

The holy trinity that is each leaf on a shamrock and Paddy.

<counts>

................wha?

Penn wrote: »

The cultural Catholic's Nicene Creed:

And that was drilled in to my head that I still remember the words (Brainwashed). They didn't make sense then and they still don't. Although I used to laugh when I would hear this being 'recited' in church. It'd sound something like this:

mumble mumble mumble mumble mumumumumumble...and so on.

Dravokivich · 03-05-2012 09:07AM

chin_grin wrote: »

<counts>

................wha?

St Patrick and the story of him presenting christianity to the Irish with a shamrock.

chin_grin · 03-05-2012 09:09AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

St Patrick and the story of him presenting christianity to the Irish with a shamrock.

Ah yeah that ol' tale of the holy Welshman coming over here and ridding us of our Pagan ways. What a great man to celebrate! (I'm trying to be sarcastic, but I just don't know any more....).

Penn · 03-05-2012 09:12AM

chin_grin wrote: »

And that was drilled in to my head that I still remember the words (Brainwashed). They didn't make sense then and they still don't. Although I used to laugh when I would hear this being 'recited' in church. It'd sound something like this:

mumble mumble mumble mumble mumumumumumble...and so on.

It's amazing when you actually start to realise what people are saying in church. I got chills the first time I realised everyone in unison chanted "IT IS RIGHT TO GIVE HIM THANKS AND PRAISE"

Really, how far away is that from chanting "THE LEADER IS GOOD, THE LEADER IS GREAT. WE SURRENDER OUR WILL AS OF THIS DATE"

lazygal · 03-05-2012 09:14AM

Penn wrote: »

It's amazing when you actually start to realise what people are saying in church. I got chills the first time I realised everyone in unison chanted "IT IS RIGHT TO GIVE HIM THANKS AND PRAISE"

Really, how far away is that from chanting "THE LEADER IS GOOD, THE LEADER IS GREAT. WE SURRENDER OUR WILL AS OF THIS DATE"

And then go out for a nice bean harvesting session. When I do attend mass (weddings and funerals only) that f-ing prayer is STILL in my brain and I can't help saying the responses along in my head.

*Shakes fist at Catholic upbringing*

CardBordWindow · 03-05-2012 09:15AM

Penn wrote: »

The cultural Catholic's Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of Heaven and earth,
of all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from Heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he arose again
in accordance with the scriptures;
he ascended into Heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.

Amen.

that's the one I remember from when I used to go to mass. The last time i went (for a funeral) it had been changed in places.
Had people been saying it wrong for years that they had to change it or something???

Cee-Jay-Cee · 03-05-2012 09:17AM

My parents are Catholic and so therefore i was baptised and went to Catholic church on sundays up until i decided i no longer wanted to go and listen to a man who is single and never (supposed to) had a sexual relationship with a woman and no (declared) children preach about family life and how to raise children. What made it worse was that priests were dictated to be rome on what to preach each sunday and the older i got the more ridiculous, outdated and downright wrong the sermons became.

The Catholic church is a farce and i no longer have any respect for it...however i still believe in God and i have strong faith. I go to mass only when i have to (baptisms/funerals/weddings) and point blank refuse after that.

The Catholic church is slowly but surely destroying itself from the inside, the sooner is totally collapses and disappears, the better.

Chuck Stone · 03-05-2012 09:17AM

If you eat pancakes on a Friday you will end up going to Muslim heaven instead of Catholic heaven so be sure to only eat only prawn cocktail crisps to be on the safe side.

Also, you can't throw stones at Protestants because Jesus lived in a greenhouse.

Or something along those lines.

LittleBook · 03-05-2012 09:17AM

Penn wrote: »

It's amazing when you actually start to realise what people are saying in church. I got chills the first time I realised everyone in unison chanted "IT IS RIGHT TO GIVE HIM THANKS AND PRAISE"

Chanting is right, I'd be surprised if most people give any real thought anymore to the words that were drilled into them as children. As the church well knows, indoctrination is a powerful tool.

lazygal wrote: »

So why call yourself a Catholic if you disagree with or just don't follow most of the core teachings?

Force of habit, no pun intended ... or maybe it is.

krudler · 03-05-2012 09:23AM

Penn wrote: »

It's amazing when you actually start to realise what people are saying in church. I got chills the first time I realised everyone in unison chanted "IT IS RIGHT TO GIVE HIM THANKS AND PRAISE"

Really, how far away is that from chanting "THE LEADER IS GOOD, THE LEADER IS GREAT. WE SURRENDER OUR WILL AS OF THIS DATE"

It must be a rare occasion everyone in a church actually knew the correct words :pac: *mumblemumblemumble LAMB OF GOD mumblemumble*

68Murph68 · 03-05-2012 09:26AM

Basically Irish Catholics in my experience believe

1) you get a child baptised to get into school
2) First Communion and Confirmation are 1) so that the kid will get money and wont be left out and 2) to have a day out
3) Marriage - you get married in a church because a church is where people have proper romantic weddings in films/ where your parents got married
4) Funerals - Less hassle to have a church funeral. What the alternative?
5) Christmas - Midnight Mass/ Mass on Christmas morning is a nice ritual but it doesn't mean anything really.
6) Heaven is a nice idea and less scarier than the alternatives even though it doesn't hold up to any sort of critical thinking
7) Religion in schools is fine because you have to teach kids right from wrong :rolleyes:
8) Confession is really weird and creepy

Their real opinion on the whole theology business of the church
Virgin birth - pull the other one
Jesus the son of God - no not really
Jesus died and came back three days later - yeah right
Transubstantiation - you're having a laugh
Children are born in a state of sin and thus need to be baptised to be cleansed - feck off

Hardly any Irish Catholics believe that any of the following are in any way actually morally wrong
-sex outside marriage
-contraception
-homosexuality
-divorce

Most believe that
-Priests shouldn't be celibate
-The Pope is not infallible and is a bit of a bollix
-The organisation itself is massively corrupt and there are some serious bad apples.

This is based on my experience with my family (parents, siblings, cousins) and friends. My family would all identify as Catholic (that's what they put down on the census) All have been married in churches. My sister had no problem with me being godfather to her son (even though I told her I believed it was morally wrong to baptism him - her response was "yeah but that doesn't matter" :rolleyes: ; I baptised him in the name of Satan, Buddha, the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Batman while babysitting him one day and I reckon that I this baptisms cancel out the other one)

DERPY HOOFS · 03-05-2012 09:28AM

I believe

LimGal · 03-05-2012 09:29AM

The power of the spud.

krudler · 03-05-2012 09:47AM

68Murph68 wrote: »

Basically Irish Catholics in my experience believe

1) you get a child baptised to get into school
2) First Communion and Confirmation are 1) so that the kid will get money and wont be left out and 2) to have a day out
3) Marriage - you get married in a church because a church is where people have proper romantic weddings in films/ where your parents got married
4) Funerals - Less hassle to have a church funeral. What the alternative?
5) Christmas - Midnight Mass/ Mass on Christmas morning is a nice ritual but it doesn't mean anything really.
6) Heaven is a nice idea and less scarier than the alternatives even though it doesn't hold up to any sort of critical thinking
7) Religion in schools is fine because you have to teach kids right from wrong :rolleyes:
8) Confession is really weird and creepy

Their real opinion on the whole theology business of the church
Virgin birth - pull the other one
Jesus the son of God - no not really
Jesus died and came back three days later - yeah right
Transubstantiation - you're having a laugh
Children are born in a state of sin and thus need to be baptised to be cleansed - feck off

Hardly any Irish Catholics believe that any of the following are in any way actually morally wrong
-sex outside marriage
-contraception
-homosexuality
-divorce

Most believe that
-Priests shouldn't be celibate
-The Pope is not infallible and is a bit of a bollix
-The organisation itself is massively corrupt and there are some serious bad apples.

This is based on my experience with my family (parents, siblings, cousins) and friends. My family would all identify as Catholic (that's what they put down on the census) All have been married in churches. My sister had no problem with me being godfather to her son (even though I told her I believed it was morally wrong to baptism him - her response was "yeah but that doesn't matter" :rolleyes: ; I baptised him in the name of Satan, Buddha, the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Batman while babysitting him one day and I reckon that I this baptisms cancel out the other one)

Nailed it, its probably the only organisation where a lot of its members dont believe in the majority of its rules and teachings, yet call themselves members anyway, its kinda baffling.

03-05-2012 09:47AM

they believe in the right to call themselves catholic no matter how much of actual catholicism they disagree with

super_furry · 03-05-2012 09:49AM

Know what I miss? Limbo. When were we supposed to stop believing in it?

What do Irish Catholics actually believe in?

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