the stress of been fat!!!!

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

You still haven't read the paper have you? You do realise the abstract is not the paper right? I posted a link to a paper up the page.

Yes, I have. Now quote the whole paragraph.

Oh, you mean your mathematically-incorrect graph?

Or, your link which 'says' it's healthier to be overweight than a healthy weight?

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

The fact that you think Gillian Michaels is a good example says everything really.

I'm saying you can be overweight with an overweight BMI of less than 27 and be perfectly healthy. Saying otherwise is to ignore the evidence.



No, I mean the table, table 1 in the paper that you clearly haven't read. Seriously, I don't know why you're getting so upset about this, maybe low blood sugar?:pac:

You have failed to produce any evidence of your opinion that being overweight is healthy.

You even resorted to immature comments like the above to mask the fact that your argument is flawed.


Being overweight is not healthy. A range of conditions stem from being above the healthy weight for your height and build, and as I said before, it is this mal-informed attitude like you have 'argued', that needs to change in this country if we are to find a solution to this crisis which is costing our country billions annually and causing people who are overweight many health problems, physically and psychologically.

whatsthedeal wrote: »

There is no proof that obesity is the causal factor related to the many health implications in which doctors like to associate it. I am not trying to say that there are not health problems with obesity but there is not enough proof to blame fat as the main cause.OTE]

This is one of the most horribly mis-informed opinions I have seen in a long time. Are you seriously stating that being obese is not a health concern? Maybe you are not aware, but when you are obese, you are at a dangerously high risk for:

1) IR: Insulin resistance develops when the pancreas can no longer keep producing enough insulin to regulate the blood glucose level. Blood glucose levels rise, the person becomes hyperglycaemic, resulting in type 2 Diabetes.

2) Atheriosclerosis: IR is a scientifically proven to be a stage in the development or atheriosclerosis. This is the hardening of the arteries, reducing blood flow into and throughout your heart. This puts a huge strain on your heart, massively increases you risks for a heart attack, aortic dissection, stroke etc. It is a serious condition.

3) Type 2 Diabetes: This risk increases with the duration and degree of obesity. When you're obese, you are not eating the correct foods. You are eating too much and too unhealthily. This leads to type 2 Diabetes which needs to be controlled or serious complications do and will arise.

4) Hypertension: The vast majority of obese people have a high BP. This puts massive strain on the heart, which is already struggling to pump blood around the body. Yet another serious complication of obesity.

5) Stroke

6) Hypercholesterolemia

7) Heart attack: For every 2.2 pounds gained, a Finnish study has found that your increase in risk of a heart attack rises by 1%. Also, in patients who have had a second heart attack, obesity is linked to an increase risk in having a second heart attack.

8 ) Congestive heart failure

9) Gout

10) Sleep apnoea

11) Cancer: Obesity is being increasingly linked with breast cancer in post-menopausal women(this is because fat tissue is important in the production of oestrogen, and long-term exposure to high levels of oestrogen increase you risk of breast cancer significantly), as well as many other observational studies showing significant correlations between being overweight/obese and increased risk of rectum and prostrate cancer in men, cancer of gallbladder and uterus in women and colonic cancer in both men and women.

12) Gout

13) Osteoarthiritis

A report done by the Royal College of Physicians show that fat people have higher incidence of diabetes, gall-bladder disease, hypertension, arthritis, respiratory problems and cancer.

This is rather obvious and is weakening your flimsy argument.

HOWEVER 'midly obese' middle aged people had the lowest mortality rates and also that there was a lower mortality rate in fat cancer patients towrads thinner patients. It is said that fat people have an incresed risk of developing osteo-arthritis, but arthritis is affected by weigth not caused by it.
It was also found that fatness alone is far less a factor in coronary heart disease than age, sex, blood pressure, smoking, life style and raised blood fats.

Of course it is caused by excess weight, it's putting severe pressure on the body. If the person wasn't overweight or obese, they wouldn't be inflicted with degenerative arthiritis! You're proving my point again!

It is not fattness that causes these illnesses, it is fattness that takes the blame for them. A thin person dying of heart disease is a sad occasion, but a fat person dying of heart disease should have seen it coming?

So what causes them? Being overweight/obese means the person is not eating a healthy diet and not exercising enough. Excess weight, high glucose levels, high cholesterol all of this and so so much more contributes to these many conditions and illnesses and vastly increased health risks that they must deal with.

Your argument here is flawed again, and almost paradoxical.

The real health risk to fat people's health is in our attempts to lose weight!

If it's not done properly, yes there are risks. I have seen it myself.

However, the REAL risk to overweight/obese people's health is being overweight or obese. Make no mistake about that.

It is the prejudice and harassment that sadly means that a lot of overweight people lose out on preventative healthcare because it is so difficult to find non-judgmental healthcare in this weight obsessed culture we live in!

Are you serious? Non-judgemental healthcare? There is a multitude of facilities for people who are obese and overweight in this country. Doctors specialising in bariatrics, health nurses, weight agencies, organisations-and you come out and say that they can't find non-judgemental health services?!!

They make excuses, just like you are making there, for not doing something about their weight before it's too late, and with people like you who haven't the first clue what their talking about, these people will continue to be mis-informed and regard their lifestyle and diet as 'healthy.'
Irish adults reported to be 37% overweight and 24% obese according to the National Adult Nutrition Survey earlier this year. The prevalance of obesity in adults ranging from the ages of 18 to 64 has increased significantly since 1990 with percentiles increasing from 8% to 26% in men and from 13% to 21% in women.

The simple fact that average body weights and 'obesity' prevalance have been increasing in Ireland at a time of increased weight loss attempts suggests that weight loss is not successful.!!

So they should give up? Are you suggesting that?

Maybe if there were less people with such small minded opinions, then people of all weights would be able to enjoy their lives without the low self esteem issues they have to deal with, without people like you @medicine333 maybe those who are overweight or even just body conscious could have the pleasure of going to the gym or for a swim without the fear of been judged and ridiculed!!

I'm small-minded?!

My argument is such a simple one:

It is not healthy to be overweight or obese. It is not and never will be healthy.

Quite frankly, it worries me that there are people like you and El Dangeroso who believe that it is even healthier to be overweight than to be a healthy weight.

You are making excuses for people who need to make a change in their lifestyles.

Also, please refrain from saying that I discriminate against overweight or obese people. It is untrue and quite obviously a personal attack against me to hide the fallacies of your dwindling argument.

feelgoodinc27 wrote: »

People always go on and on about their rights but never their responsibilities, informing yourself about and making a real effort to enhance your health is probably the best action you can take improve your life and to improve this country's health service.

Why? Any decent doctor will tell you that preventative medicine is the best way forward. Imagine what our health service would be like if everyone didn't smoke, drank alcohol only in moderation, got a bit of regular exercise in and informed themselves on healthy eating.

So really what I'm saying is its not ok to be fat (as common sense will tell you that if your fat your probably unhealthy) because by not taking responsibility for your health you are having a negative impact not just on yourself but on society at large.

Excellent post, and a very good point there in bold.

A lot of people who are overweight or obese make excuses rather than action about their weight, and that is not the way forward, both for their own well-being and society too.

whatsthedeal wrote: »

First off do not tell me what to do "right now"!!! and secondly are you too stuck up your own back side to actually read what is been said, I have never said that obesity does not increase health risks.

And yes I am saying that it is not the cause of these health conditions, because there are many factors that need to be taking into consideration when finding the cause of someones health condition and weight is just one of many.

It is not just simply 'one of many.' It is the main cause in the vast majority of these cases.

If you don't feel the desire to link to medical journals, then it tells me a lot about your argument, to be honest. The fact is, you wouldn't be able to find anything to support your notion that being overweight is healthy and the same with obesity.

You didn't have the decency to even respond to my long post outlining the many conditions caused by being overweight or obese.

Your argument is simply wrong, I'm afraid.

You cannot be overweight or obese and healthy.