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Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

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  • #4172
    Leiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    Aquilani was excellent during our pre-season tour .

    I remember him coming on and changing a couple of games


  • #4173
    El Inho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,655 ✭✭✭El Inho


    Leiva wrote: »
    Aquilani was excellent during our pre-season tour .

    I remember him coming on and changing a couple of games

    one game he rattled the crossbar twice and one of the resulting corners agger got a goal from...

    the important thing here is the crossbar twice...thats what we are lacking :P


  • #4174
    amiable
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭amiable


    eldwaro wrote: »
    one game he rattled the crossbar twice and one of the resulting corners agger got a goal from...

    the important thing here is the crossbar twice...thats what we are lacking :P

    Rattled the crossbar twice? He'd fit in perfectly so :D


  • #4175
    Kess73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    Andy Carroll wrote: »
    I was thinking about this last night and I just can't get my head around it.
    I really don't recall what the guy was like when he played for us...

    What the **** is the deal? We can't even give the guy away at this stage, is he terrible? If he isn't, why can't we give him away? And if he is decent, why don't we just bring him back.

    I can't make head or tail of it.

    Even if we massively overpaid for him at the time, we are trying to give him away for about 25% of that now and failing? Is it a case that teams aren't willing to pay for something that you have been willing to give them free even if the player has a value? In which case, perhaps it's a bad idea to send people on loan unless you fully intend to take them back and use them in the future.


    When he actually got run outs during competive games, he looked quite a good player. Good passer, seemed to make time and space for himself, mobile, and willing to put in a shift. Had lovely ball control and did not need to take a few touches in order to stop the ball before moving it onto another player. Not a physically strong player but I would go as far as to say that he was much more willing to get stuck in that Meireles was, and he was certainly a better tackler than Meireles. Had a good number of assists to his name as well, especially when the amount of time he had on the pitch was taken into account. We defo could have used him this season and methinks he would have worked very well with Suarez.


  • #4176
    El Inho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,655 ✭✭✭El Inho


    Kess73 wrote: »
    When he actually got run outs during competive games, he looked quite a good player. Good passer, seemed to make time and space for himself, mobile, and willing to put in a shift. Had lovely ball control and did not need to take a few touches in order to stop the ball before moving it onto another player. Not a physically strong player but I would go as far as to say that he was much more willing to get stuck in that Meireles was, and he was certainly a better tackler than Meireles. Had a good number of assists to his name as well, especially when the amount of time he had on the pitch was taken into account. We defo could have used him this season and methinks he would have worked very well with Suarez.

    love to have him back, would be a great asset...a real game changer, and could sit nicely in front of lucas and another holding midfielder...

    id love to get a partnership like masch and alonson going again with lucas and even as a push spearing...


    how would people feel about

    johnson---skrtel---agger/new---enrique
    lucas
    henderson
    aquilani/gerrard
    suarez
    carroll/new
    NEW/Downing

    new at CB just cos we know agger wont be fit all season.

    when you look at it like this, what the hell is wrong this year! is really the only true problem we have clinical finishing.

    NB. Meant to add about Aquilani..would love to have him back, but does anyone really think after all thats happened he would be interested?


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  • #4177
    redzerdrog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,776 ✭✭✭redzerdrog


    Is it bad that it irritates the hell out of me when people put Agger as the right CB and Skrtel as the left CB :o


  • #4178
    G.K.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭G.K.


    Coates...


  • #4179
    argosy2006
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,210 ✭✭✭argosy2006


    Aqua was crap more often that good,
    Needs all the room in the world,He is to easily got at in the premier league,
    Any good display was against weaker teams,

    Squad player, We really need to buy some starters this summer,
    Someone to replace Kuyt and Carroll and Adam,, Making them the bench warmers, And playing them in Europa league and when we are 3-0 up at home,

    We need some class to move up the league though,


  • #4180
    El Inho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,655 ✭✭✭El Inho


    redzerdrog wrote: »
    Is it bad that it irritates the hell out of me when people put Agger as the right CB and Skrtel as the left CB :o

    what you on about :P
    G.K. wrote: »
    Coates...

    i like the guy...but are we at the stage of trusting him as cover for a season when he cant get a game now?


  • #4181
    Kess73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    argosy2006 wrote: »
    Aqua was crap more often that good,
    Needs all the room in the world,He is to easily got at in the premier league,
    Any good display was against weaker teams,

    Squad player, We really need to buy some starters this summer,
    Someone to replace Kuyt and Carroll and Adam,, Making them the bench warmers, And playing them in Europa league and when we are 3-0 up at home,

    We need some class to move up the league though,


    Whereas what we have now have been beating those so called weaker teams.......


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  • #4182
    5starpool
    Subscribers Posts: 32,868 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    Kess73 wrote: »
    Whereas what we have now have been beating those so called weaker teams.......

    Change your sig pic Kess. It wasn't in vain.


  • #4183
    argosy2006
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,210 ✭✭✭argosy2006


    Kess73 wrote: »
    Whereas what we have now have been beating those so called weaker teams.......

    We beat them into submission on every stat but the one that counts,
    Henderson in middle with Lucas i feel could be strong, To often henderson never gets that midfield role, To often out wide


  • #4184
    D'Agger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,385 ✭✭✭✭D'Agger


    eldwaro wrote: »

    i like the guy...but are we at the stage of trusting him as cover for a season when he cant get a game now?


    I'd give him a shot - worst case would be that Agger gets injured early and be out for a long time.

    That said, from what I've seen of Coates he seems solid enough and has adapted well enough to the English game.


  • #4185
    El Inho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,655 ✭✭✭El Inho


    5starpool wrote: »
    Change your sig pic Kess. It wasn't in vain.

    if this is a spoiler ill be angry!

    Im only going to start watching the entire thing during the summer!
    PaulieC wrote: »
    I'd give him a shot - worst case would be that Agger gets injured early and be out for a long time.

    That said, from what I've seen of Coates he seems solid enough and has adapted well enough to the English game.

    personally would love to see him get game time...i think he has what it takes. young player of the tournament in the copa america is pretty high honours!


  • #4186
    Kess73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    argosy2006 wrote: »
    We beat them into submission on every stat but the one that counts,
    Henderson in middle with Lucas i feel could be strong, To often henderson never gets that midfield role, To often out wide



    Well Aquilani was our top assist getter during Rafa's last season. So he was able to do against those weaker teams what our current lot could not, and that was to help in the scoring of goals.

    The fact that Aquilani got those assists despite not having a lot of gametime showed that he was effective.

    Henderson is far weaker in the tackle than Aquilani was in England, and Aquilani is far superior in terms of technique, passing, control, positioning, and attacking play. Henderson might become a decent player in the future, but right now Aquilani is a far more rounded CM than Henderson and the better player by some distance.


  • #4187
    MonkeyTennis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭MonkeyTennis


    any combination looks better when you have Leiva smack in the middle. How I miss his wee brazilian head


  • #4188
    Kess73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    eldwaro wrote: »
    if this is a spoiler ill be angry!

    Im only going to start watching the entire thing during the summer!



    The same sig has been used by a lot of people on Boards for a couple of months now as well as a number of other GOT sigs. I have had it up for quite some time so every post I have made during that time in here and elsewhere on Boards has had it on it.

    Won't change your enjoyment of season one though. A brilliant show with a heck of a lot of different plotlines to follow.

    Would recommend the books as well.


  • #4189
    Kess73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    MonkeyTennis wrote: »
    any combination looks better when you have Leiva smack in the middle. How I miss his wee brazilian head


    Well with Lucas we have one quality CM plus another player when we play. But without Lucas we have no quality at all for CM in the squad. This season has just hammered home how poor we are in terms of CMs.


  • #4190
    El Inho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,655 ✭✭✭El Inho


    Kess73 wrote: »
    The same sig has been used by a lot of people on Boards for a couple of months now as well as a number of other GOT sigs. I have had it up for quite some time so every post I have made during that time in here and elsewhere on Boards has had it on it.

    Won't change your enjoyment of season one though. A brilliant show with a heck of a lot of different plotlines to follow.

    Would recommend the books as well.

    but i never looked at it until attention was drawn to it :P

    ah no im looking forward to getting stuck in as soon as exams are over...have a few shows lined up!


  • #4191
    Kess73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    eldwaro wrote: »
    but i never looked at it until attention was drawn to it :P

    ah no im looking forward to getting stuck in as soon as exams are over...have a few shows lined up!

    If you are buying the boxset, get it on blu ray as it looks amazing.

    Sons Of Anarchy is another good show to catch up on if you have not watched it yet. Is into it's fourth season now.


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  • #4192
    El Inho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,655 ✭✭✭El Inho


    Kess73 wrote: »
    If you are buying the boxset, get it on blu ray as it looks amazing.

    Sons Of Anarchy is another good show to catch up on if you have not watched it yet. Is into it's fourth season now.

    i tend to 'buy' my shows just like I 'pay' to watch the LFC games...

    but ill keep it in mind! would love to go out and get blu ray, but the aul laptop to tv connection is all i can muster!


  • #4193
    PFL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 392 ✭✭PFL


    Leiva wrote: »
    Aquilani was excellent during our pre-season tour .

    I remember him coming on and changing a couple of games

    I also thought this, Aquaman was making a big difference to unlocking defences (something we're clearly lacking now) The whole debacle has been a head scratch.

    John W Henry tweeted his approval of Aqua in pre-season, Kenny came out loads of times saying how fortunate LFC were to have Aqua back in the squad and then there was that video in Oslo of Aqua and Comolli having a 'row' of sorts about transfer / loan deal.

    Now we can't give him away for a box of tic tacs. It's like history repeating itself and we'll now be subject to daily updates by Aqua's agent of him staying, going or coming back to ____________ (insert clubs name here)


  • #4194
    El Inho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,655 ✭✭✭El Inho


    PFL wrote: »
    I also thought this, Aquaman was making a big difference to unlocking defences (something we're clearly lacking now) The whole debacle has been a head scratch.

    John W Henry tweeted his approval of Aqua in pre-season, Kenny came out loads of times saying how fortunate LFC were to have Aqua back in the squad and then there was that video in Oslo of Aqua and Comolli having a 'row' of sorts about transfer / loan deal.

    Now we can't give him away for a box of tic tacs. It's like history repeating itself and we'll now be subject to daily updates by Aqua's agent of him staying, going or coming back to ____________ (insert clubs name here)

    thinking back, I was convinced Aqua just wasnt interested in a stay at LFC...

    to some degree this time, he does seem to resisting the burning of bridges..but only time will tell on this one.


  • #4195
    opr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,267 ✭✭✭opr


    No points for Aqua today.

    Opr


  • #4196
    joe123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭joe123


    eldwaro wrote: »
    TL;DR - LFC aren't in as bad a place as we all think. We are where we deserve to be, but it is seasons like this one that will get us to where we want to be.

    I disagree. I think we are in a very bad place at the minute. Mainly down to our own fault, partly because Manchester City,Spurs and Newcastle have all improved hugely over the last 1,2,3 seasons.

    We have fallen further behind. We have a very average team full of simply not good enough players.

    Henderson,Carroll,Adam,Downing,Kuyt,Maxi,Carragher,Spearing. None of them would get a sniff in the teams I mentioned above.

    What are we going to do in the summer? Another year without Champions league football. Another year and Gerrard gets older. We need a top goal scorer which I cant see us getting, hell we need about 3 top quality players to improve the squad. The likes of Reina and Suarez wont stick around forever either.

    We are a long way behind and I honestly cant see us getting 4th spot for a couple of years now.


  • #4197
    mormank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭mormank


    Morzadec wrote: »
    Good post and I agree with what you say for the most part, but just on the above point - it's not Kenny's failure to get fourth that has some fans calling for his head, and others (like me) who are seriously questioning his position.

    It's the lack of even a challenge. I knew that it was likely we would not get 4th this year, and I wasn't necessarily going to see it as black and white as 'no 4th = failure'. It's the fact we are SO far behind, especially in a year where some of the expected shoe-ins for 4th have struggled, and that the challenge ended in February, that is so disappointing, and, let's face it, unacceptable.

    I'm of the generation you talk of - those who have never seen a League won - and I agree that we shouldn't be expectant just because of our history. I was against Rafa's sacking. When we were hovering 4 or 5 point behind the CL places I felt that should we fail (and the inevitable criticisms come in seeing as 4th was the target), Kenny should get another season, because there was so many matches where the margins were incredibly fine and it looked like we were playing well and making progress overall.

    It's the margin of the deficit to the top of the table that is hard to accept, even for the less-spoiled, more realistic Liverpool supporter. We have the same amount of points as Fulham. It is not spoiled to suggest that we should be at least 10 to 15 points clear of mid-table sides at this stage of the season given our resources and the quality of the playing squad.

    I see where you are coming from. It is probably true to suggest that due to the playing staff available to us we should be doing better in the league. However one season is imo too small a sample size to judge a manager, especially a manager with the task Kenny had on his hands 18 months ago. In lots of ways he is a victim of his own success due to the way he had the team playing at the end of last season. I know that got my hopes up and I'm sure it had that effect on alot of people. This makes the crushing failure to mount a challenge for anything league'wise so much harder to stomach.

    However I still do not think we should be looking to get rid of a manager just for the sake of it, just hoping that a new manager will inject something into the playing squad. I really don't think this is the road we should be going down as a football club. Alot of questions have been asked recently about what 'The Liverpool way' really is. Well I would suggest that part of it would have been giving the manager the support and tools he needs to succeed rather than just moving onto the next one, hoping that this move in itself will be successful.


  • #4198
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Since Sami took over at Bayer they haven't lost a game (the last match saw them defeat Markus Babbels Hoffenheim) be interesting to see if they keep it up, should get the job full time if they do.


  • #4199
    mormank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭mormank


    Leiva wrote: »
    I am no expert or demographer but I think its kinda a new phenomenon that's occurred in recent years .

    We have Liverpool fans (35+) who are in the majority, and we have the younger generation who have no allegiance to legend or the old times who just want league success, which in their lifetime (25 - ) it has never been known or seen .

    So we kinda have a split of fans who are more patient and less quick to call for a managers head, and another side that justifiably haven't seen things ever change for the good of a league title .

    But Mormank has hit the mail on the head "you never know what you have til you loose it" (Rafa) .

    by the way I am in the 35+ brigade

    I just wanna clarify at this point that although I would be part of the younger generation you refer to, I am in no way impatient or want managers out as a rule. I was merely putting forth my reasoning for wanting Champion's league spot over domestic titles, with my personal desire being for us to win the title more than anything else right now. I know it's a long long way in the future, but I just believe that every year we are out of the champion's league probably equates to at least one more year of us being without a title win. I don't even wanna think about the exponential effects of each year out of it.. :eek:


  • #4200
    mormank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭mormank


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Nice post. However I think you're viewing it through very tinted kenny Dalglish style glasses tbh. Because we are Liverpool Football club we have a massive advantage over most clubs in England, and Europe in some cases. Excellent reputation, very large support base, solid money making potential, some excellent players etc etc. Due to all of these reasons I think being in 8th 16 points off 4th is extremely unacceptable.

    We've had it tough with owners, but so have Newcastle. They were even in the Championship two season ago and look where they are now. Blaming the current horrible form on the last few years is a cop out tbh. Despite going through all of that there is no way we should be level on points with Fulham in 8th place and closer to relegation than 4th.

    I'm glad you brought up Roy, I find it strange that you mention him and then proceed to talk about not giving managers enough time. Even if Roy "got" this club and said all the right things but still found himself continuously losing games(especially at home), was about to finish the season with the 2nd worst record ever in the league there would be no one on hear asking for him to be given time. I'm going to view Kenny the same way as I'd view anyone, him being a legend should not get him any extra rope, same as it shouldn't give Carragher or Gerrard extra games/contracts/season/playing time.


    You're point about fans wanting the league and 4th and everything else not being good enough is pure hyperbole bollox tbh. I've never seen anyone say 4th or nothing else, and I certainly haven't seen anyone expecting a title challenge. However I also don't remember anyone predicting an 8th placed finish or worse, or being this far off 4th before the season started either. Pretty sure if anyone said in August they would have been ridiculed and called a "hater" or some such nonsense. Now it's happened under Kenny then it's time to paper over-the-cracks. If finishing behind Everton, battling it out with Fulham, WBA, Sunderland, Swansea for a top half finish is now our reality then fair enough, however I don't think you or anyone else actually thinks this club isn't far far better then that.


    In the first paragraph you talking about how we fell behind in the 90s because our owner was out of his depth and in the last paragraph you fondly talk what attracted you to this club - basically our owners being completely out of his depth. You can't have it both ways. In these times sticking with a manager who is out of his depth for 3-4 seasons will kill a team. 3-4 years of great players leaving while being replaced by the likes of henderson, Carroll, Downing etc will just make the job for the next manager(who'll be of a lesser pedigree) probably finally make mid-table battles with WBA and company a reality.

    I don't believe I said fans wanted the league over everything else, that was my personal point of view and I explained in brackets next to that comment that I was purposely using hyperbole to help get my point across. :rolleyes: I guess people will just find things to argue about if they wanna find something to argue about....

    And as for the comment about the owners being out of their depth. Being out of your depth as an owner doesn't just extend to sacking managers now does it?? In fact, being competent as an owner doesn't mean weilding the axe every season either now does it?? So yes sir, I can have it both ways.


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  • #4201
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    mormank wrote: »
    I don't believe I said fans wanted the league over everything else, that was my personal point of view and I explained in brackets next to that comment that I was purposely using hyperbole to help get my point across. :rolleyes: I guess people will just find things to argue about if they wanna find something to argue about....

    And as for the comment about the owners being out of their depth. Being out of your depth as an owner doesn't just extend to sacking managers now does it?? In fact, being competent as an owner doesn't mean weilding the axe every season either now does it?? So yes sir, I can have it both ways.

    Fair enough, when you ask these type of question it seems you think fans expect us to challenge for titles and get 4th, if you don't why did you ask those questions? I honestly can't see where you pointed that out brackets.
    We havent won the league in 20 years. We have a whole generation of fans that have never experienced the glory of winning the league. Do people honestly believe that another manager can just arrive and win us the league, or guarantee us 4th? Do people honestly think that's all it takes? That we are that close to really challenging?


    As for owners - giving a manager 3-4 years before sacking him doesn't make you a great owner either. You can be a great owner and sack someone after a season, can also be a great one and keep someone on for 4+ years. Whatever FSG do with Kenny won't make them good or bad.


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