Pregnant women smoking and drinking

Oh yeah, shud have said..

I only did midwifery for a year..

I only know what the lecturer told us that day..

Maybe she's wrong. I don't know

Abi wrote: »

In which case she can't stop me from hurling abuse at her.


I'm sure boards users that have smoked during pregnancy see me as an interfering wench, but I feel strongly about this as I was directly effected by it. For mothers that smoked during pregnancy years ago they could plead ignorance and lack of information, fine, but nowadays the information is there and doctors encourage the mothers to consider the child and give up.

The smoking ban was set in place so the public that do not smoke weren't forced to inhale it. Pity an unborn baby couldn't voice their own objections, isn't it?

I'm not arguing with you, you can of course hurl abuse at her if you want to.

But then aren’t you stopping to her level?

Let’s not forget that smoking is an addiction and for some people it’s a stronger addiction than for others.

I’m just trying to bring cold logic to the table here. There is no way to prevent woman who want to smoke during pregnancy from smoking during pregnancy. I’m not arguing rights and wrongs because they don’t exist.

Stupify wrote: »

I’m not arguing rights and wrongs because they don’t exist.

Sigh. Supreme fence sitter.

prinz wrote: »

Sigh. Supreme fence sitter.

But they dont. And if they did who decides whats right and wrong?

Is it the majority?

Abi wrote: »

Stooping to her level? How can you compare words with poisoning a baby?

I agree you cant prevent a woman smoking. With this cold logic you speak of, she can have her cigarette but I reserve the right to look at her like something nasty I just stood on.

Perhaps stooping to her level was a poor choice of words.

And you can of course look at her with disgust and shout at her. It might even work on some women. But I don’t think it solves the problem with all of them.

Stupify wrote: »

Opinion on rights and wrongs exist but they are opinions and not absolutes. I think it is wrong but thats just my opinion, my morals don't count as law.

There is no opinion involved in Foetal Alcohol Syndrome and the likes.

eviltwin wrote: »

One or two drinks every now and then is not going to cause this. Don't confuse the odd drink every now and then with an ongoing habit.

I'm not. Plus if you go back the Independent article I linked to previously showing the study on some of the maternity hospitals you'll see three cases of FAS were identified, one from a case involving IIRC 0-5 units of alcohol per week, that could be two glasses of wine a week.

Regardless, there is a right and wrong with this. Again it doesn't have to involve something as serious as FAS. There is far too much of this 'there's no right or wrong' bollixology floating about on boards' IMO.

newport2 wrote: »

Can you envisage the reaction if they did?

I think most people would remain in denial regardless and still wouldn't change their diet but we have to start somewhere because as a nation it's getting worse. I spent a lot of time in hospital during my second pregnancy due to unexplained bleeding and so I met a lot of ladies who were overweight and in there due to high blood pressure, which may have been linked to their weight in the first place and a lot of them would be giving out about the smokers too, they were all high and mighty thinking they were better than them. Of course there was also some pregnant overweight smokers too, one in particular stood out, she was extremely obese and could barely breathe, she had an oxegen mask most of the time but she still made her way out for cigarettes and her visitors used to bring her in loads of crappy food and smokes

Julia London wrote: »

Does anybody think there could be a link to ashtma and smoking while pregnant or being subjected to second hand smoke? Or perhaps a non smoking mother whos parent smoked when pregnant..

Yes the studies all suggest that all those things are a risk, there is also a link between asthma and the pregnant women being obese or overweight.

Stupify wrote: »

That is your opinion..

It's my opinion that Foetal Alcohol Syndrome exists, and is caused by the mother ingesting alcohol while pregnant?

eviltwin wrote: »

..... all the things pregnant women are told not too etc.

..and why are they told not to? Could it be...............there is actually a right and wrong? :eek:

Mindkiller wrote: »

Yeah, but the reason I mentioned iron content is because the idea of pregnant women drinking Guinness seems to have always been grounded on this belief that it is a good source of iron. While in reality it only accounts for a really minute amount of a person's RDA.

Maybe there are other benefits I haven't heard of

Guinness is a decent source of anti-oxidants, as is red wine. That's where the reasoning that it is good for you comes from. Of course lots of things that pose no risk at all to the foetus are also good sources of anti-oxidants like certain fruits and vegetables. As long as you give them a good wash before eating them they'll be nothing but good for both parties. Eating a handful of dried berries/figs will give you all of the goodness you will get from drinking wine/Guinness with none of the harmfulness of the alcohol and with extra vitamins and aid your bowel movements (something critical in most pregnancies as constipation is common for pregnant women).

But the reason it is unlikely this can ever really be legislated for is because where does it stop? There are lots of potentially harmful foods that you should avoid completely in pregnancy, like uncooked meats, paté, raw eggs, mouldy cheeses, etc. Do you ban those too? What about things that are ok in moderation but harmful if too much is taken, like coffee, tea, cola, fish, herbal teas? How do you police that? Give women weekly ration cards? What about the fact that different countries have different guidelines, for example the UK limit on caffeine is about half that recommended in the US? What about general diet? If a woman is going to do the very, very, very best for the foetus, Ideally she should be eating only an organic, non-processed, fruit and veg filled diet, including fish, of limited variety and amount but definitely including it. But what if she has a generally healthy diet but indulges in a bag of chips, a fizzy drink or a chocolate bar on occasion? Does that make her a terrible mother? Some people would think so, so where do you draw the line?

Stark wrote: »

The theory that anti-oxidants are beneficial to health is largely disproven I believe. (Not that it stops health "gurus" pawning them off on people).

They are good for helping reverse sperm dna fragmentation, that's all I know for sure.

All a woman can do is make an informed choice. I dont think a woman's rights should be taken away from her purely because she is pregnant.
Maybe I'm biased, but since there are such conflicting opinions in the medical profession alone with some doctors saying a small glass here and there is no harm and others believing strongly that even the smallest drop of alcohol could cause harm.

To give another example, in preventing SIDS, in the seventies, babies were supposed to lie on their tummy, in the early eighties new mammies were told to lie them on their side, then in the early naughties, they were told to swaddle them and have them on their back, now I'm being told not to swaddle, and to lie baby on their back.

We are being told that cot bumpers and pillows are dangerous for a baby who rolls into them and cannot roll back can suffocate. And to use a cellular blanket instead of a duvet for baby. So because they are potentially dangerous to the health of the baby, we are told by our health service not to use them. Yet all the baby shops show cutsey matching bumpers, pillows, and duvet sets for cots that are unsafe according to the HSE.

I quit smoking several years before I became pregnant. I did so, because like Iguana has posted, I knew smoking can affect not only my overall health, but also my fertility. I always drank moderatly so dont feel as if I am missing out massively by not having an alcoholic drink for a short time out of my life.

I personally dont understand the women who choose to drink or smoke through pregnancy, but judging them? I wouldnt. Instead they deserve all and any support systems in place to ensure that they make the better choice for them and baby. To me, this should include all aspects of the health of the mother and baby, including obesity as Tayla has pointed out - some do use their pregnancy to over-indulge, saying they are eating for two. If a newborn baby's tummy is the size of a large marble, how much "eating for two" is actually used by baby?

I have avoided bagged salad, unwashed raw produce, alcohol, anything with raw eggs - mayonnaise based things like coleslaw, tiramsu, carbonara, dessert mousses, cheesecakes, cured meats and fish, all shellfish, all unpasteruised cheeses and dairy products, general junk food and drink, smoky or crowded venues, animals that I was told to avoid, since August. Yet it seems no matter what I do or do not do, someone will judge me - I had someone eyeball me at christmas because I had a can of coke, (which a midwife and a GP and a nutritionist had told me was perfectly acceptable.) That person would sooner eat cheese that possibly contains listeria, which can cause foetal death, yet me making the baby a bit giddy for 30 mins was me being deemed a terrible person.