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Is sex with a Prostitute Rape?

2

Comments

  • #32
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,194 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    Sauve wrote: »
    Who does this? ^^

    If it's a young girl that's been trafficked and forced into prostitution, then yes, she is a victim, plain and simple.

    Prostitution, as it is intended, is not rape. It is consensual, a business transaction. Trafficking is a whole 'nother issue imo.

    They arrested 21 men in an article above, nothing do with trafficking or forced prostitution. They were arrested and charged for ''soliciting prostitution services''.

    Why have no women been charged in the above investigation? And yes, I've seen some slags offering themselves on the street. I've seen some lads tell them to piss off and the women start playing the victim card.


  • #33
    Sauve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,646 ✭✭✭✭Sauve


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    Why have no women been charged in the above investigation?


    "Judge Eamon O'Brien ordered all 21 to pay €470 to Doras Luimni, a support organisation for migrants, asylum seekers and refugees, as well as those who are victims of human trafficking or the sex industry."

    There must be some reason for him to have done this - there's possibly an investigation on the girls in questions' backgrounds?


  • #34
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    It should be legal. I don't think its rape if the woman is doing it herself out of free will. Even if that free will is driven by addiction. Obviously trafficking is a whole different story. Some men are well aware that the women are not doing it out of free will but don't care. They are as guilty as the traffickers and should be held accountable.


  • #35
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    tfitzgerald wrote: »
    Sex with a prostitute is rape if you don't pay
    Joking...?

    MrP


  • #36
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,194 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    Sauve wrote: »
    "Judge Eamon O'Brien ordered all 21 to pay €470 to Doras Luimni, a support organisation for migrants, asylum seekers and refugees, as well as those who are victims of human trafficking or the sex industry."

    There must be some reason for him to have done this - there's possibly an investigation on the girls in questions' backgrounds?

    I don't know what happened, but if these men had sex with women involved in trafficking or having sex with women who were there against their will they would gotten more than fine though.

    No doubt in my mind if a prostitute gets caught they'll say not guilty and come up with some sob story. Wasting police and court time. Making it all the harder to find real traffickers.


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  • #37
    Sauve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,646 ✭✭✭✭Sauve


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    I don't know what happened, but if these men had sex with women involved in trafficking or having sex with women who were there against their will they would gotten more than fine though.

    Possibly. Hopefully tbh.
    I don't have a problem with prostitution per se, but it is the responsibility of the client to ensure that the service he is seeking (in this case a girl), is there of her own free will.
    It's bad enough that it has to be done illegally no matter what the circumstances, but a basic level of humanity and morailty should be employed by the guys visiting them.


  • #38
    Robdude
    Closed Accounts Posts: 709 ✭✭✭Robdude


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    They arrested 21 men in an article above, nothing do with trafficking or forced prostitution. They were arrested and charged for ''soliciting prostitution services''.

    Why have no women been charged in the above investigation? And yes, I've seen some slags offering themselves on the street. I've seen some lads tell them to piss off and the women start playing the victim card.

    If I'm understanding the article correctly; there were no women involved.
    the men approached two plain clothes detectives and offered to pay for a sexual act.


  • #39
    juan.kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭juan.kerr


    Robdude wrote: »
    If I'm understanding the article correctly; there were no women involved.

    Was Stagg involved?


  • #40
    Battered Mars Bar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Battered Mars Bar


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    I don't know what happened, but if these men had sex with women involved in trafficking or having sex with women who were there against their will they would gotten more than fine though.

    The investigation was a sting operation, the gardai guised as prositutes so no sexual act took place.


  • #41
    Sauve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,646 ✭✭✭✭Sauve


    Robdude wrote: »
    If I'm understanding the article correctly; there were no women involved.

    Ehhh, ladies can be detectives??


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  • #42
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    Was Stagg involved?

    I don't believe so:D
    Sauve wrote: »
    Ehhh, ladies can be detectives??

    Yep, most costume shops have the uniforms;);):D


  • #43
    Robdude
    Closed Accounts Posts: 709 ✭✭✭Robdude


    Sauve wrote: »
    Ehhh, ladies can be detectives??

    Yes - but being a detective is not a crime.

    From the article - 21 men were arrested for 'soliciting prostitution services'. There were no women involved in the crime of soliciting prostitution services. Hence, none were charged.


  • #44
    howamidifferent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭howamidifferent


    Not unless she forces you against your will...


  • #45
    Spunge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Spunge


    tfitzgerald wrote: »
    Sex with a prostitute is rape if you don't pay

    nah, that's theft.


  • #46
    true
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭true


    howamidifferent wrote: »
    Not unless she forces you against your will...

    wonder if the OP was raped by a prostitute or what the problem is;)

    or maybe just the wallet was raped.:D


  • #47
    enda1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,165 ✭✭✭enda1


    Prostitution is not illegal in Ireland by the way for all the above posters who seem to think it is.


  • #48
    Sauve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,646 ✭✭✭✭Sauve


    enda1 wrote: »
    Prostitution is not illegal in Ireland by the way for all the above posters who seem to think it is.

    That's right, there's some loophole or other isn't there?


  • #49
    enda1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,165 ✭✭✭enda1


    Sauve wrote: »
    That's right, there's some loophole or other isn't there?

    No. Well it's not a loophole really. Propositioning, street walking etc. are illegal, but paying for sex or being paid for sex is not.


  • #50
    44leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    enda1 wrote: »
    Prostitution is not illegal in Ireland by the way for all the above posters who seem to think it is.

    Yes it is and brothels are illegal, but you can be an escort and come to an arrangement as consenting adults.


  • #51
    Sauve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,646 ✭✭✭✭Sauve


    enda1 wrote: »
    No. Well it's not a loophole really. Propositioning, street walking etc. are illegal, but paying for sex or being paid for sex is not.
    44leto wrote: »
    Yes it is and brothels are illegal, but you can be an escort and come to an arrangement as consenting adults.

    Yep, had heard this before alright.
    Doesn't make sense really, as if you can't proposition someone, then how do you come to an arrangement?!
    Pull someone, then hope they pay you? :p


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  • #52
    44leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    Sauve wrote: »
    Yep, had heard this before alright.
    Doesn't make sense really, as if you can't proposition someone, then how do you come to an arrangement?!
    Pull someone, then hope they pay you? :p

    Not really, you are paying for their company, and as some people do in each others company, they have sex.


  • #53
    enda1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,165 ✭✭✭enda1


    44leto wrote: »
    Not really, you are paying for their company, and as some people do in each others company, they have sex.

    Nah, ye pay for a condom and they just show you how to use it :P


  • #54
    Milk & Honey
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭Milk & Honey


    tfitzgerald wrote: »
    Sex with a prostitute is rape if you don't pay

    No it isn't. She agreed to the sex.

    In R v Linekar (1995) QB 250, a prostitute stated the fact that she would not have consented to sexual intercourse if she had known that her client was not intending to pay, but there was no fraud-induced consent as to the nature of the activity, nor was the identity of the client relevant.


  • #55
    Sauve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,646 ✭✭✭✭Sauve


    44leto wrote: »
    Not really, you are paying for their company, and as some people do in each others company, they have sex.

    Oh yeah, sure escorts are legal....
    Duh. (slow day for me)


  • #56
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 18,841 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    Milk & Honey wrote: »
    No it isn't. She agreed to the sex.

    In R v Linekar (1995) QB 250, a prostitute stated the fact that she would not have consented to sexual intercourse if she had known that her client was not intending to pay, but there was no fraud-induced consent as to the nature of the activity, nor was the identity of the client relevant.
    First year law student?


  • #57
    mariano rivera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 264 ✭✭mariano rivera


    DarkJager wrote: »
    No. That's like saying buying a pair of runners which were created in a sweatshop makes you guilty of supporting the practice. You're paying for something, it's not your responsibility to know where it came from.

    Interesting thought process!

    Say a House party is going on.

    Girl asleep intoxicated in a room upstairs.
    A man comes into a room.

    In a similar situation with a prostitute who has been forced/ coerced into prostitution, she does not want to have sex with this man.

    He has sex with her. However, this guy leaves the girl money after he is finished

    He has paid for IT.

    Not his responsibility where IT came from

    Right?


  • #58
    LittleBook
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭LittleBook


    tfitzgerald wrote: »
    Sex with a prostitute is rape if you don't pay

    Not according to US Judge Teresa Carr Deni ... it's "theft of services". :mad:
    A 2007 case before Deni involved a 20 year-old prostitute who alleged that she was sexually assaulted by Dominique Gindraw and at least 4 other men. She claimed that she agreed to have protected sex with Gindraw for $150 after contacting him through Craigslist.

    Upon meeting him, she alleged that he asked her to also have protected sex with his friend for an additional $100. She reported that when the other man arrived, he threatened her with a gun and demanded that she have unprotected sex with at least 3 additional men.

    After filing a police report, four men were arrested and charged with rape and assault. Deni dismissed all of the sex and assault charges and instead charged them with armed robbery and theft of services. She justified her decision by stating:

    "She consented and she didn't get paid . . . I thought it was a robbery." And that a case like this "minimizes true rape cases and demeans women who are really raped."

    The same defendant was charged with a similar crime 4 days later. However, assistant district attorney Rich DeSipio refused to present the case before Judge Deni owing to her earlier ruling, arguing that "I wouldn't demean her [the victim] that way." Judge Deni threw out the second case for failure to prosecute.


  • #59
    Seachmall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Sauve wrote: »
    Yep, had heard this before alright.
    Doesn't make sense really, as if you can't proposition someone, then how do you come to an arrangement?!
    Pull someone, then hope they pay you? :p

    You can proposition them online, over the phone or in person (just not in a public space).

    It's not a loophole as the restrictions are explicitly stated, if they meant to outlaw it they would've just outlawed it.


  • #60
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Calliope Long Urinal wrote: »
    I don't think its a grey area if she was trafficed then she has no free will she is a slave . She has no consent to give unless she wants a beating . So In essence it is rape IMO

    Who are you going to want to see persecuted for it?

    The person who trafficed her and forced her into the sex industry?
    The person who paid for her time, under the impression she was not forced into it?

    To me this is clear on the first person. But the second, not so much.
    Casillas wrote: »
    Either way it's illegal;

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1206/limerick.html

    As mentioend by someone else, take note of the charge. The men were charged with soliciting someone. If the act of prostituition was illegal, the prostitute would be the one being charged there.
    Seachmall wrote: »
    You can proposition them online, over the phone or in person (just not in a public space).

    It's not a loophole as the restrictions are explicitly stated, if they meant to outlaw it they would've just outlawed it.

    The online thing is a bit odd as well. Which you'll notice by the most predominant websites not being registered in Ireland even though they are entirely for listing Irish Prostitutes.


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  • #61
    Seachmall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Which you'll notice by the most predominant websites not being registered in Ireland even though they are entirely for listing Irish Prostitutes.

    I wouldn't know.

    <.<

    >.>


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