Real or Fake? P-40 found in the Sahara

Nforce · 20-04-2012 11:28PM #1

This one is causing a stir on the www ...some "pics" have appeared on a Polish modellers forum of a downed P-40 that has been discovered in the Sahara. Have a look at the pics and decide for yourself...

http://www.konradus.com/forum/read.php?f=13&i=7154&t=7154&filtr=0&page=1

Incidentally, the OP of the thread has promised more photos of the aircraft in the coming days.

Delancey · 21-04-2012 01:46AM

Dunno why really but I'd wager the photos are faked.

smellslikeshoes · 21-04-2012 02:51AM

Something does look a little off about them but maybe it's just the colour/picture quality. If it's legit, when it came down I'd guess there was more sand covering the rocks than there is currently, the rocks kind of add to the weirdness.
It all seems like an awful lot of effort to go into just to fake a few pictures.

jimbis · 21-04-2012 03:00AM

It actually looks like it landed on mars!

:P

the_syco · 21-04-2012 03:20AM

Shadows often help show the fakes, and something is annoying me about picture three.

troposphere · 21-04-2012 05:54AM

Delancey wrote: »

Dunno why really but I'd wager the photos are faked.

+1

Dogwatch · 21-04-2012 09:07AM

Why is the engine behind the airframe and facing the other way. The twisting of the blades would indicate the engine is facing the right way.(IMHO)

Blue Punto · 21-04-2012 10:20AM

Dogwatch wrote: »

Why is the engine behind the airframe and facing the other way. The twisting of the blades would indicate the engine is facing the right way.(IMHO)

I would imagine that because the engine has bee torn off more damage to be done to the front of the airframe as the aircraft would have to be moving for this to occur.

With that in mind the engine is far too close to the airframe and the pics dont look right

Its some guy who makes models and has to much time on his hands

Im going for FAKE

stopthepanic · 21-04-2012 10:57AM

It's a tough one to call, bear in mind that the landscape showing in the picture may have had a lot of sand covering it at the time of crash. If those rocks were visible at the time of crash I think the whole airframe would have been ripped to shreds.

Also the aircraft's orientation may also have been adjusted due to high winds over the years.

Maybe the engine was attached or still in front when the crash finished.

I think it's fake though.

xflyer · 21-04-2012 11:00AM

Nicely done fake. Clearly a model or in fact a couple of models. The close up of the hatch being another. Lots of attention to detail. Obvious giveaways though are a lack of squadron codes and a serial. Dead giveaway that. Impressive though.

The engine is not depicted with the prop given that P40 is an inline water cooled engine. It's still in the cowling. I don't think that's a mistake though. I imagine the modeller used crash pictures as a basis.

Tenger · 21-04-2012 12:14PM

I would be suspicious as it did appear on a modelling site.

I guess the markings could have been sand blasted off over the years.
And I would expect a bit of sand to have piled up on one side due to years of wind.

Delancey · 21-04-2012 12:48PM

I'd bet some of the guys on the Photography forum could pull these pictures to pieces.

sparrowcar · 21-04-2012 01:06PM

Fake,

But can you imagine it was real and just stumbling upon it.

Nforce · 21-04-2012 01:43PM

Delancey wrote: »

I'd bet some of the guys on the Photography forum could pull these pictures to pieces.

The images contain no embedded exif data, but this may have occurred during post processing or deliberately to conceal the aircraft's location. Someone has taken the original shots and enhanced them with Photoshop...this is the result...

It looks waaaaay too detailed to be a model, CGI perhaps, or maybe it's the real deal!

Delancey · 21-04-2012 01:55PM

sparrowcar wrote: »

Fake,

But can you imagine it was real and just stumbling upon it.

+ 1

I think every aviation enthusiasts ' wet dream ' is finding an aircraft like the ' Lady Be Good '

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Be_Good_(aircraft)

BostonB · 22-04-2012 12:39PM

First glance it looks obviously CGI.

If its real they've done something weird to the photos. It has that filter look they do when trying to make screengrabs look real on flight sim forums.

Nforce · 22-04-2012 01:40PM

Someone has adjusted the levels in the cockpit shot...

It's looking like these images are of the real deal...though whether they were taken in the 1950/60's or much more recently is open to debate.

Klunk001 · 22-04-2012 03:58PM

Just watched video footage of this aircraft on another military forum, looks real and being claimed as RAF.

Heres a link.

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/483378-desert-gives-up-one-rafs-finest.html

Soon to be minus her .50 cals.

RadioRetro · 22-04-2012 04:20PM

Well, the roundel in one of the photos certainly shows it to be RAF. And I lived in desert as a young fella and there were only sand-drifts up against the house after a haboob (sandstorm) and they were usually blown away by gentler breezes afterwards so the lack of such here isn't unusual. It's only in deep sand where you get drifting.

Nforce · 22-04-2012 05:02PM

Klunk001 wrote: »

Just watched video footage of this aircraft on another military forum, looks real and being claimed as RAF.

Heres a link.

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/483378-desert-gives-up-one-rafs-finest.html

Soon to be minus her .50 cals.

Well that settles that! What an amazing discovery. Hopefully it can be brought back to the UK and displayed "as is" rather than rebuilt. On a more sombre note...I wonder what was the fate of the P40's pilot?

EchoIndia · 22-04-2012 05:41PM

Nforce wrote: »

Hopefully it can be brought back to the UK and displayed "as is" rather than rebuilt. On a more sombre note...I wonder what was the fate of the P40's pilot?

I am a bit uneasy at the suggestion (which I have seen elsewhere) that it should be brought back to the UK (where it has probably never been before). There is surely a strong argument for preserving it in the country in which it was found. It is as much a part of their history as of the combatant countries which slugged it out on someone else's territory. I agree that it should not be rebuilt, though. To do that would be essentially to destroy much of the original aircraft shown in the video and photos.

Nforce · 22-04-2012 05:51PM

The reasoning for having it shipped to the UK for preservation are twofold:

1) It was operated by the RAF and is, I believe ,up until this point the only P40 to have been found relatively complete and untouched that has served in the Middle East during WWII.
2) Egypt isn't the most stable country at the moment,unfortunately, and preserving a WWII aircraft may not be high on it's Government's agenda.

lkjhgmnb · 23-04-2012 09:58PM

did the mustange have the merlin engine?

Delancey · 23-04-2012 10:03PM

lkjhgmnb wrote: »

did the mustange have the merlin engine?

Yes , although it was not manufactured by Rolls Royce who were working at full capacity . The Merlin fitted to the P 51 was made under licence by Packard in the USA ( a division of General Motors ) and something Merlin ' fans ' are reluctant to admit - the US built engine was better than that turned out by RR.

Call me a cynical ' glass-half-empty ' type but having seen those videos I remain to be convinced that P 40 find is the real deal.

Snowc · 23-04-2012 10:44PM

xflyer wrote: »

Nicely done fake. Clearly a model or in fact a couple of models. The close up of the hatch being another. Lots of attention to detail. Obvious giveaways though are a lack of squadron codes and a serial. Dead giveaway that. Impressive though.

The engine is not depicted with the prop given that P40 is an inline water cooled engine. It's still in the cowling. I don't think that's a mistake though. I imagine the modeller used crash pictures as a basis.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:

squonk · 24-04-2012 09:46AM

My first thought was what happened the pilot myself! Anyone know if his body was found with the aircraft?

Blue Punto · 24-04-2012 03:24PM

Loads of pics here

https://picasaweb.google.com/114682566226043469349/Zdj_samolot?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKjxkt6rkNTFKg&feat=directlink#

BostonB · 24-04-2012 03:42PM

The pictures of debris and close up smaller bits look real. But the plane itself when seen whole doesn't look real. Maybe its the harsh desert light, or soft filter (why) on the camera. The Panel lines in particular don't seem right.

Nforce · 24-04-2012 03:51PM

BostonB wrote: »

The pictures of debris and close up smaller bits look real. But the plane itself when seen whole doesn't look real. Maybe its the harsh desert light, or soft filter (why) on the camera. The Panel lines in particular don't seem right.

There was a link posted earlier in this thread by Klunk001, to these video's..