Garda with no licience,tax, and bald tyres kills two and gets a fine!

HigginsJ · 19-04-2012 07:56PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Realistically, what's the difference between failing to notice a pair of idiots fighting in the middle of the road, and failing to notice a person walking on a badly lit stretch of narrow road?

Many people have gone to jail or faced far harsher penalties than the guy in this case for failing to notice the latter.

read Kess73's description of the area, very hard for the guy to see the deceased, let alone avoid them

hondasam · 19-04-2012 07:59PM

ResearchWill wrote: »

From 2011

Joseph Doyle of 36 Grangegowan in Tullow has been fined a total of €700 on conviction for motoring offences. The 23 year old had no insurance (€500) and no driving licence (fine €200) at Irish Street in Bunclody on July 6 last year. Garda Inspector Pat Cody reported that Doyle, who was not present at Wednesday's District Court sitting, had not cooperated with the probation service, failing to keep appointments with the probation officer. Judge John Coughlan was assured that the defendant had already been disqualified from driving for a year.

From here http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/lifestyle/court-report-2975980.html

The disqualification was for previous offenses, do with previous motor of fences he got €700 for no licence and no insurance.

I found this one
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=court%20fines%20man%20no%20insurance&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEoQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.advertiser.ie%2Fmayo%2Farticle%2F15329&ei=4V-QT9C9GsPPhAeqvrmbBA&usg=AFQjCNEpMHXfooCls2FBBiQi-b0bcHZ8rQ

HigginsJ · 19-04-2012 08:00PM

ResearchWill wrote: »

From 2011

Joseph Doyle of 36 Grangegowan in Tullow has been fined a total of €700 on conviction for motoring offences. The 23 year old had no insurance (€500) and no driving licence (fine €200) at Irish Street in Bunclody on July 6 last year. Garda Inspector Pat Cody reported that Doyle, who was not present at Wednesday's District Court sitting, had not cooperated with the probation service, failing to keep appointments with the probation officer. Judge John Coughlan was assured that the defendant had already been disqualified from driving for a year.

From here http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/lifestyle/court-report-2975980.html

The disqualification was for previous offenses, do with previous motor of fences he got €700 for no licence and no insurance.

I think this kinda puts to bed the theory that the garda involved in this incident got off lightly.

The fine for no insurane, no licence are a joke,

leeroybrown · 19-04-2012 08:00PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Realistically, what's the difference between failing to notice a pair of idiots fighting in the middle of the road, and failing to notice a person walking on a badly lit stretch of narrow road?

Many people have gone to jail or faced far harsher penalties than the guy in this case for failing to notice the latter.

This happened on a motorway not a tiny bohreen. Motorway designated roads are supposed to be designed to allow drivers achieve the designated speed limit day or night without the risks associated with blind junctions, roadside obstructions, pedestrians, cyclists, agricultural vehicles, etc.

lividduck wrote: »

It routinely happens, banned from driving does not require you to have a liciense but it prevents you from obtaining one.

Technically the ban is applied from when you next receive a license. At that point it's endorsed and you lose it for the period of the ban.

hondasam · 19-04-2012 08:01PM

mathepac wrote: »

How do you know that? Are you privy to information the rest us don't have. Is there information you have that is not in the public domain? If you do, please post it so we can all work off the same data.

What a stupid thing to say.

What happened on the night is what happened, I can't change that, my point was if he had d/lic tax and no bald tyres it would still be the same outcome.

yer man! · 19-04-2012 08:04PM

This news story seems to be a bit ambiguous, Could he have had a learning permit? could his tax been out by only a few days? I know he shouldn't have been driving on a motorway with such a permit but I can guarantee you people drive on such roads with said qualification (no excuse but still). How many people on this very forum have had valid tax all their driving life? never ever having to pay arrears ever? how many people go around with illegal thread depth? many more than you'd think, how many people actually check their tyre depth on a regular basis? I know people who don't even know what car they drive and barely know that it takes petrol or diesel!!
From what I can see this collision was unavoidable and an accident.

Canis Lupus · 19-04-2012 08:06PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Realistically, what's the difference between failing to notice a pair of idiots fighting in the middle of the road, and failing to notice a person walking on a badly lit stretch of narrow road?

Many people have gone to jail or faced far harsher penalties than the guy in this case for failing to notice the latter.

Normally people out for a walk stay on the sides and don't start a wrestling match in the middle.

HigginsJ · 19-04-2012 08:06PM

yer man! wrote: »

This news story seems to be a bit ambiguous, Could he have had a learning permit? could his tax been out by only a few days? I know he shouldn't have been driving on a motorway with such a permit but I can guarantee you people drive on such roads with said qualification (no excuse but still). How many people on this very forum have had valid tax all their driving life? never ever having to pay arrears ever? how many people go around with illegal thread depth? many more than you'd think, how many people actually check their tyre depth on a regular basis? I know people who don't even know what car they drive and barely know that it takes petrol or diesel!!
From what I can see this collision was unavoidable and an accident.

Oh a complete accident.

But as someone said on the forum earlier it involved a Garda so he should have his livelyhood taken away for it.

HigginsJ · 19-04-2012 08:09PM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Normally people out for a walk stay on the sides and don't start a wrestling match in the middle.

And wear some sort of light or reflector.

Mind you not enough people are wearing them still. Its a disgrace to see some people walking late at nights on country roads. Accidents and worse waiting to happen

Jesus Shaves · 19-04-2012 08:10PM

hondasam wrote: »

What a stupid thing to say.

What happened on the night is what happened, I can't change that, my point was if he had d/lic tax and no bald tyres it would still be the same outcome.

You don't know if it would be the same outcome.

Canis Lupus · 19-04-2012 08:11PM

HigginsJ wrote: »

And wear some sort of light or reflector.

Mind you not enough people are wearing them still. Its a disgrace to see some people walking late at nights on country roads. Accidents and worse waiting to happen

Not tht I've done it in years but in the country at night you'll see a car coming miles away, I used to jump well into the ditch out of the way. Most people nowadays least around here in Kerry are pretty good with high vis or a torch.

Canis Lupus · 19-04-2012 08:12PM

darokane wrote: »

You don't know if it would be the same outcome.

And neither do you.

hondasam · 19-04-2012 08:13PM

darokane wrote: »

You don't know if it would be the same outcome.

Having a d/lic and tax would have prevented the accident?

Feisar · 19-04-2012 08:15PM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Haven't read the thread, but I'm confused about how a qualified garda would have no driving license in the first place. Isn't that part of their basic training? They should even have advanced training in place to be honest.

Anyway, no, I can't see a case for unsafe driving here, the culpability lies entirely on the shoulders of the deceased. Tussling on a motorway at night for gods sake. By the time the headlights even touched them round a bend anyone would have maybe a split second to take evasive action.

I doubt the vehicle itself would be responsive enough to avoid them.

Sure there is advanced driving courses but they probably don't check to see if the drivers are road legal, i.e. have a driving licence.

World class rally drivers wouldn't be "qualified" to drive on roads without a drivers licence in the eyes of the law.

HeidiHeidi · 19-04-2012 08:17PM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Not tht I've done it in years but in the country at night you'll see a car coming miles away, I used to jump well into the ditch out of the way. Most people nowadays least around here in Kerry are pretty good with high vis or a torch.

I was driving back up to Dublin from the Carlow/Wicklow border area one night, on an empty, reasonable road so I would've been doing a fair speed (ages ago, so I honestly can't remember, but well within the limit). Next thing out of the L/H ditch :eek: lurches a drunken man, fell out about four feet onto the road. Dressed completely head to toe in dark clothing. Cue mad swerve by me, as he lurched back in again. His pal, who was a tad steadier on his feet, also head to toe in dark clothes, was about 20 feet ahead of him, also on the L/H side of the road.

I sincerely hope that both made it home alive, I checked the headlines the next day for road fatalities. I also hope that I would not have been vilified if I had hit either of them.

HigginsJ · 19-04-2012 08:18PM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Not tht I've done it in years but in the country at night you'll see a car coming miles away, I used to jump well into the ditch out of the way. Most people nowadays least around here in Kerry are pretty good with high vis or a torch.

Shocking amount of young kids that are walking the roads at dark with no hint of light. In the last month or so i came across 3 with no spark of light and this was at 9.30pm on back-roads.

It begs massive questions of their parents but thats prob for another thread

ResearchWill · 19-04-2012 08:20PM

Section 38 (6) of the 1961 Act don't think it has been amended,

38.—(1) A person shall not drive a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place unless he holds a driving licence for the time being having effect and licensing him to drive the vehicle.

(2) (a) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.

(b) In a prosecution for an offence under this subsection, it shall be presumed, until the contrary is shown by the defendant, that he did not, at the time he drove the vehicle, hold a driving licence then having effect and licensing him to drive the vehicle.

(3) The owner of a mechanically propelled vehicle shall not employ a person to drive the vehicle in a public place unless the person holds a driving licence for the time being having effect and licensing him to drive the vehicle.

(4) (a) A person who contravenes subsection (3) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.

(b) In a prosecution for an offence under this subsection, it shall be presumed, until the contrary is shown by the defendant, that the person employed to drive the vehicle did not, at the time he drove the vehicle, hold a driving licence then having effect and licensing him to drive the vehicle.

(5) A person—

(a) who is summarily convicted of the offence of contravening subsection (1) of this section and was at the time he committed the offence—

(i) disqualified for holding a driving licence, or

(ii) a person required to produce a certificate of competency or a certificate of fitness before obtaining a driving licence, or

(b) who is summarily convicted of the offence of contravening subsection (3) of this section in a case in which the person employed to drive the vehicle was at the time he drove the vehicle—

(i) disqualified for holding a driving licence, or

(ii) a person required to produce a certificate of competency or a certificate of fitness before obtaining a driving licence,

shall be liable to the following punishment in lieu of the punishment mentioned in section 102 of this Act, that is to say, to a fine not exceeding one hundred pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months or to both such fine and such imprisonment.

(6) Subsections (1) to (5) of this section shall not apply in relation to a member of the Garda Síochána driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in the course of his duty.

(7) Pedestrian-controlled vehicles which are specified for the purposes of this subsection by the Minister by regulations and which comply with the conditions stated in the regulations are hereby excepted from subsections (1) to (5) of this section and sections 40 and 41 of this Act.

Jesus Shaves · 19-04-2012 08:25PM

hondasam wrote: »

Having a d/lic and tax would have prevented the accident?

Well done for not mentioning the one thing that might have changed the outcome

ROADWORTHY TYRES

TylerIE · 19-04-2012 08:26PM

SunnyDub1 wrote: »

he was driving with no driving license ?

I would like to see anyone else just get a fine for having no licene... If it was anyone else they would get more then a fine

Go into any district court any day of the year when the court is in session. Prepare to be stunned!

Terrontress · 19-04-2012 08:28PM

a Garda is never off-duty, is he?

There was a Garda who unfortunately crashed and died in the past month or so. He was travelling home from work at the time, so you'd presume not on duty, but the Garda Ombudsman are investigating it anyway as they are never off duty.

So maybe no serving Garda needs any license to drive any vehicle.

They should just make it a requirement of becoming a guard. You can't become a guard if you can't speak Irish but they'll let you join with no driving license. Madness.

HigginsJ · 19-04-2012 08:30PM

Terrontress wrote: »

a Garda is never off-duty, is he?

There was a Garda who unfortunately crashed and died in the past month or so. He was travelling home from work at the time, so you'd presume not on duty, but the Garda Ombudsman are investigating it anyway as they are never off duty.

So maybe no serving Garda needs any license to drive any vehicle.

They should just make it a requirement of becoming a guard. You can't become a guard if you can't speak Irish but they'll let you join with no driving license. Madness.

Cant be the case otherwise why was he prosecuted for not having a licence

_feedback_ · 19-04-2012 08:30PM

darokane wrote: »

Well done for not mentioning the one thing that might have changed the outcome

ROADWORTHY TYRES

The stopping distance in the dry on good tyres at 120kph is about 100 metres. That is the length of a football field.

Any driver, regardless of their occupation, would struggle to notice, react and stop/avoid a completely unexpected obstruction which absolutely and totally should not have been there.

It's just lucky no innocent party wasn't killed in this incident...

Kosseegan · 19-04-2012 08:30PM

Funkstard wrote: »

Hang on, he knocked the two people down but they were on the ground having a scuffle in the middle of the motorway at night (as you do) and the car ran over them. If I remember correctly the garda didn't even know what he'd hit as it was so dark - that stretch of the motorway has no lights. He is being fined for driving without a licence or insurance and isn't culpable for anything else that happened.

He was not fined for driving without insurance.

hondasam · 19-04-2012 08:31PM

darokane wrote: »

Well done for not mentioning the one thing that might have changed the outcome

ROADWORTHY TYRES

The tyres might have made a difference but probably not to the outcome considering the men were in the middle of an unlit road.

Kosseegan · 19-04-2012 08:32PM

SunnyDub1 wrote: »

he was driving with no driving license ?

I would like to see anyone else just get a fine for having no licene... If it was anyone else they would get more then a fine

There are people in court every day of the week getting a fine for not having a licence. Sometimes not even a fine. The fines are often lower than he got. people sometimes forget to renew a licence. It is not a hanging offence not to have a licence.

Kosseegan · 19-04-2012 08:33PM

Funkstard wrote: »

If you wouldn't mind reading either my post or the article properly you'll see that he has been prosecuted for driving with bald tyres and without insurance or a licence, but none of these (as per an investigation stated in the article) led to the deaths of the two men. Them having a fight in the middle of the motorway, in the dark, is what led to their death.

There is no mention of insurance in the article.

hondasam · 19-04-2012 08:35PM

Terrontress wrote: »

a Garda is never off-duty, is he?

There was a Garda who unfortunately crashed and died in the past month or so. He was travelling home from work at the time, so you'd presume not on duty, but the Garda Ombudsman are investigating it anyway as they are never off duty.

So maybe no serving Garda needs any license to drive any vehicle.

They should just make it a requirement of becoming a guard. You can't become a guard if you can't speak Irish but they'll let you join with no driving license. Madness.

The Ombudsman investigates any accident involving a member whether on or off duty. Some guards are off duty the minute their shift finishes. It's a job same as every job, they clock off and forget about it.

Kosseegan · 19-04-2012 08:35PM

OldGoat wrote: »

The court appear to have been lienent. They overlooked his not being insured.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Penalty-points/Types-of-offences/
No insurance: 5 penalty points and a fine of up to €2,500 and/or a possible term of imprisonment

He does not seem to have been charged with no insurance.

HigginsJ · 19-04-2012 08:36PM

Kosseegan wrote: »

There are people in court every day of the week getting a fine for not having a licence. Sometimes not even a fine. The fines are often lower than he got. people sometimes forget to renew a licence. It is not a hanging offence not to have a licence.

Yea looking at the couple of examples of cases that the guys put up the fines for no tax/insurance/licence are laughable

mathepac · 19-04-2012 08:36PM

hondasam wrote: »

... my point was if he had d/lic tax and no bald tyres it would still be the same outcome.

How do you know that? What information do you have that the bald tyres did not mean the difference between two people living or dying? Are you a motor engineer or crash investigator? Did you examine the scene or the car? For someone who has apparently no more knowledge that the rest of us, your posts seem to imply differently.

Garda with no licience,tax, and bald tyres kills two and gets a fine!

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