Should horse racing be banned?

KamiKazeKitten · 15-04-2012 07:36PM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

But horses are trained from an early age. Get an animal young enough and you can make it do all sorts of ridiculous things. I appreciate the vast number of races pass without incident but I just don't like the thought of an animal suffering an accident and having to be put down through something that's solely for human entertainment.

Have you ever ridden a horse? If they genuinely do not want to do something they won't, simple as, and you can't make them. No matter how much schooling you do with them.

I used to showjump, there were times that the horse would not go and so we didn't compete. Equally, there are times that the horse balked at something, and still jumped the round. You think I should have just given up on the competition then and there?
They spook at anything! And this was no highly strung racehorse I was riding.

Oscars Well. · 15-04-2012 07:36PM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

The Grand National is a bit of a disgrace nowadays I think. It's four miles long for christ sake with 30 jumps. They should at least half the race. Nobody really enjoys the long draw out part of it anyway.

It's 4 and a half miles

The Grand National is meant to be the ultimate stamina test for a horse. Reducing it's length would completely take away the meaning of the race.

Oscars Well. · 15-04-2012 07:40PM

mystika121 wrote: »

Put 'Jockey headbutts horse' into YouTube to get an idea of what can happen to a horse when there is trouble at the start of a race!

You can't tar the whole industry with one brush because some idiot does that. The jockey was banned by the Horse Racing Authority, which is correct as there is no place for such idiotic actions in racing.

TeddyTedson · 15-04-2012 07:41PM

KamiKazeKitten wrote: »

Have you ever ridden a horse? If they genuinely do not want to do something they won't, simple as, and you can't make them. No matter how much schooling you do with them.

I used to showjump, there were times that the horse would not go and so we didn't compete. Equally, there are times that the horse balked at something, and still jumped the round. You think I should have just given up on the competition then and there?
They spook at anything! And this was no highly strung racehorse I was riding.

Some horse just can't be broken in all right.
Also even the most quiet horses can surprise you.
I was throw off a very quiet horse and kicked by another.
You see it at the horse show every year, a horse just won't go for them on the day.

TeddyTedson · 15-04-2012 07:44PM

Oscars Well. wrote: »

It's 4 and a half miles The Grand National is meant to be the ultimate stamina test for a horse. Reducing it's length would completely take away the meaning of the race.

Oh four and a half is it.
Still though, I just can't approve the idea behind this race. Do you think it's cruel yourself?

15-04-2012 07:45PM

I'm no racing fan (if it was up to me it'd be banned) but really its up to the punters, there is a big demand for racing among the public so it'll continue. Its like Boxing some will say it should be banned but there's an audience for it so it will continue.

However, I do believe there should be some laws brought forward from within the racing industy to stop greedy owners/trainers etc. from allowing a horse who won/ran in the Cheltenham Gold Cup (or similar race) run in the Grand National a matter of weeks later. I felt that way before the race and wasn't surprised at the fate that befell that wonderful horse who despite giving his owner/trainer some big paydays was ultimately let down by these same people.

The majority of trainers are responsible and know that as the pinnacle of the year, the horses training should be geared towards Cheltenham and then give the horse time to recover before using a few races to lead into Cheltenham again the following year.

awec · 15-04-2012 07:48PM

Discodog wrote: »

So a Horse that refuses to race & therefore doesn't get a history of wins gets sold off when there is such an oversupply of horses or put to stud :rolleyes:

As opposed to what?

Oscars Well. · 15-04-2012 07:48PM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Oh four and a half is it.
Still though, I just can't approve the idea behind this race. Do you think it's cruel yourself?

As pointed out earlier, horses aren't just told to jump these fences when they turn up, they've had endless hours schooling over them. The two deaths this year were very unfortunate. Synchronised was injured as a result of running loose, AccordingToPete was brought down by a horse falling in front of him. I don't think it's cruel, but I do agree that reducing the number of runners may minimise the risk of falling/sustaining injuries.

KamiKazeKitten · 15-04-2012 07:50PM

awec wrote: »

As opposed to what?

The slaughterhouse is where most end up I'd guess.
If the horse has no track record, why would anyone want him at stud?

From experience with them, racehorses are not usually cut out to be family pets.

And in a recession, not that many people want to take on a horse! They are expensive pets.

Cheeky_gal · 15-04-2012 07:50PM

Hilarious thread.

People who have no idea about horse racing hear of two horses having to be destroyed and they log onto boards and talk about how cruel it is and suggest horse racing be banned :rolleyes:

I wonder if these people were sitting at home crying all day about Synchronised and According to Pete? Doubtful

Oscars Well. · 15-04-2012 07:51PM

[QUOTE=Borders no.2;78145618
However, I do believe there should be some laws brought forward from within the racing industy to stop greedy owners/trainers etc. from allowing a horse who won/ran in the Cheltenham Gold Cup (or similar race) run in the Grand National a matter of weeks later.
[/QUOTE]

There is no way JP McManus or John Joe O'Neill would have let Synchronised run if he wasn't 100%. SunnyHillBoy also ran at Cheltenham and finished second, beaten by a shorthead.

mystika121 · 15-04-2012 07:51PM

Oscars Well. wrote: »

You can't tar the whole industry with one brush because some idiot does that. The jockey was banned by the Horse Racing Authority, which is correct as there is no place for such idiotic actions in racing.

He was only banned for one day by the Horse Racing Authority- that's a mere wrist slap!

In another disclipinary hearing around the same time a jockey was banned for 10 days for being rude to a racing steward.

Just goes to show where the priorities of the Horse Racing Authoity lie . . .

KamiKazeKitten · 15-04-2012 07:55PM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Some horse just can't be broken in all right.
Also even the most quiet horses can surprise you.
I was throw off a very quiet horse and kicked by another.
You see it at the horse show every year, a horse just won't go for them on the day.

Exactly, one of the worst falls I've ever had was from a sweet little pony who was normally good as gold. They can be moody creatures. I've been bitten, kicked, stood on, you name it...if a horse does not want to do what is being asked they won't.

Oscars Well. · 15-04-2012 07:57PM

mystika121 wrote: »

He was only banned for one day by the Horse Racing Authority- that's a mere wrist slap!

In another disclipinary hearing around the same time a jockey was banned for 10 days for being rude to a racing steward.

Just goes to show where the priorities of the Horse Racing Authoity lie . . .

I completely agree it was disgraceful he was only banned for a day, there is no room in the industry for such behaviour. However, 99% of those involved in racing wouldn't dream of intentionally harming a horse.

awec · 15-04-2012 08:03PM

Oscars Well. wrote: »

As pointed out earlier, horses aren't just told to jump these fences when they turn up, they've had endless hours schooling over them. The two deaths this year were very unfortunate. Synchronised was injured as a result of running loose, AccordingToPete was brought down by a horse falling in front of him. I don't think it's cruel, but I do agree that reducing the number of runners may minimise the risk of falling/sustaining injuries.

Exactly.

To be honest, I don't see the need to have 40 runners. Even half that would be plenty.

xzanti · 15-04-2012 08:04PM

Cheeky_gal wrote: »

Hilarious thread.

People who have no idea about horse racing hear of two horses having to be destroyed and they log onto boards and talk about how cruel it is and suggest horse racing be banned :rolleyes:

Yeah, next they'll be calling for breastfeeding in public to be banned.. hilarious indeed.

byhookorbycrook · 15-04-2012 08:04PM

awec wrote: »

Become a stud most likely. Or sold off.

Provided he is still entire and not gelded.

15-04-2012 08:06PM

awec wrote: »

Oscars Well. wrote: »

As pointed out earlier, horses aren't just told to jump these fences when they turn up, they've had endless hours schooling over them. The two deaths this year were very unfortunate. Synchronised was injured as a result of running loose, AccordingToPete was brought down by a horse falling in front of him. I don't think it's cruel, but I do agree that reducing the number of runners may minimise the risk of falling/sustaining injuries.

Exactly.

To be honest, I don't see the need to have 40 runners. Even half that would be plenty.

Come on! The bookies need the 40 horses in one race so they can maximize profits.

Cheeky_gal · 15-04-2012 08:06PM

xzanti wrote: »

Yeah, next they'll be calling for breastfeeding in public to be banned.. hilarious indeed.

Fingers crossed on that one

15-04-2012 08:15PM

Oscars Well. wrote: »

There is no way JP McManus or John Joe O'Neill would have let Synchronised run if he wasn't 100%. SunnyHillBoy also ran at Cheltenham and finished second, beaten by a shorthead.

By no coincidence with the same owner and trainer. How well the horse did is irrelevant. I'm sure Synchronised would have done ok if he'd stayed standing but at 9 years old the trainer and owner need to be picking their races. Could you have seen Best Mate being run in this race when he was after winning his 3rd gold cup at 9 years of age?

Also I believe there is a big bonus on offer for winning the two races? (not sure on that). JP is a business man first and foremost.

Ultimately its a ruthless business with little sentiment buth there are much greater issues facing animal welfare.

Ultimately while I'm no fan, its up to spectators, if they keep turning up then the industry will prosper and its good for the economy I suppose, even today it seems like there was a linkup with China and Coolmore which will be hugely beneficial.

mr.jingle · 15-04-2012 08:16PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Come on! The bookies need the 40 horses in one race so they can maximize profits.

The bookies will have no input whatsoever there still going to get the same amount of business no matter how many are in the race. Most people will always back in the National, ALWAYS! By this time next year when the Natioanls about to be run again i can nearly guarantee that most of the people asking for it to be banned over the next few days will have a small flutter on the race and watch it like they do every other year.

Nulty · 15-04-2012 08:18PM

Borders no.2 wrote: »

By no coincidence with the same owner and trainer. How well the horse did is irrelevant. I'm sure Synchronised would have done ok if he'd stayed standing but at 9 years old the trainer and owner need to be picking their races. Could you have seen Best Mate being run in this race when he was after winning his 3rd gold cup at 9 years of age?

Also I believe there is a big bonus on offer for winning the two races? (not sure on that). JP is a business man first and foremost.

Ultimately its a ruthless business with little sentiment buth there are much greater issues facing animal welfare.

Ultimately while I'm no fan, its up to spectators, if they keep turning up then the industry will prosper and its good for the economy I suppose, even today it seems like there was a linkup with China and Coolmore which will be hugely beneficial.

Seriously, you have no idea what your talking about. (Except for the last paragraph.)

awec · 15-04-2012 08:20PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Come on! The bookies need the 40 horses in one race so they can maximize profits.

Less horses doesn't mean less profits at the bookies. People will still bet, they'll just have less horses to choose from.

If anything it'll make it more enticing, trying to wrap your head around 40 runners is a big ask.

15-04-2012 08:20PM

Nulty wrote: »

Seriously, you have no idea what your talking about. (Except for the last paragraph.)

Could you please inform me so, I'd love to be enlightened.

mr.jingle · 15-04-2012 08:21PM

Borders no.2 wrote: »

By no coincidence with the same owner and trainer. How well the horse did is irrelevant. I'm sure Synchronised would have done ok if he'd stayed standing but at 9 years old the trainer and owner need to be picking their races. Could you have seen Best Mate being run in this race when he was after winning his 3rd gold cup at 9 years of age?

Comparing the two of them horses is like chalk and cheese. One was purposely wrapped in wool by his trainer and was set out for specific races through the season. Synchronized was very much a winner unexpectedly of a Grade 1 in Ireland before winning the Gold Cup with the Grand National his intended target before both those wins in Ireland and at Cheltenham. Two completely different animals in different era's that are not comparable.

He was very much improved a horse this season so the chance of winning a National was there for all to see they may have never got another chance of winning the National with even if he stayed alive

Nulty · 15-04-2012 08:25PM

Best Mate didn't run in the National because he wasn't a national horse. He was handicapped to his best form and he was never entered in the race because he was always aimed at the Gold Cup and only the Gold Cup.

JP McManus doesn't need the money and spends more money on buying bad horses, running bad horses and keeping bad horses than makes fiscal sense. Its a hobby of his.

Horse racing is a business yes. There are people whos income relies on the industry but it is ultimately an entertainment industry. Anyone buying racehorses knows there is a slim chance of making money from it. People do it cause they love racing and love horses.

Nulty · 15-04-2012 08:26PM

Was anyone watching Keenland just there on ATR?

Flat race horse just jumped over the inside rail.

Horses can be insane.

15-04-2012 08:28PM

mr.jingle wrote: »

Comparing the two of them horses is like chalk and cheese. One was purposely wrapped in wool by his trainer and was set out for specific races through the season. Synchronized was very much a winner unexpectedly of a Grade 1 in Ireland before winning the Gold Cup with the Grand National his intended target before both those wins in Ireland and at Cheltenham. Two completely different animals in different era's that are not comparable.

Thanks for that. Fair enough, just have to agree to disagree with ye I suppose ye are obviously racing fans. Its an internal issue for the people in the industry including spectators to shape the sport the want.

UrbanSea · 15-04-2012 08:53PM

Borders no.2 wrote: »

By no coincidence with the same owner and trainer. How well the horse did is irrelevant. I'm sure Synchronised would have done ok if he'd stayed standing but at 9 years old the trainer and owner need to be picking their races. Could you have seen Best Mate being run in this race when he was after winning his 3rd gold cup at 9 years of age?

Also I believe there is a big bonus on offer for winning the two races? (not sure on that). JP is a business man first and foremost.

Ultimately its a ruthless business with little sentiment buth there are much greater issues facing animal welfare.

Ultimately while I'm no fan, its up to spectators, if they keep turning up then the industry will prosper and its good for the economy I suppose, even today it seems like there was a linkup with China and Coolmore which will be hugely beneficial.

That part is totally untrue. JP owns hundreds of racehorses, he loses an absolute fortune in racing, but he is in it for the love of the game. If he wanted to make money from racing he'd be buying sons of Galileo and opening a stud, not gelded handicap hurdlers with a rating of 90.

Discodog · 15-04-2012 09:40PM

A friend of mine breaks & trains horses. She jokes that she could go to the Cliffs of Moher, get on the horse & get it to jump over the edge. That is the trust that a good rider builds in their horse.

The horses have no idea what fate or risk awaits them. They rely on humans & they often get let down.

Again all these comparisons between farm animals & racehorses. One is food production & business, the other is entertainment & business. Whatever your dietary desires the cow dies to feed people whereas the race horse dies to provide fun & betting/prize income.

Should horse racing be banned?

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