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Should horse racing be banned?

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Comments

  • #482
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    robbie1977 wrote: »
    Do people who want horse racing banned think all the horses would
    live in fields and have a better life than racing each other.

    The reality is without horse racing these horses would'nt of been breed
    so they would never of existed.

    What is better for them being born as a racehorse or never be born.

    That a serious argument?

    Yes, horses would become extinct.


  • #483
    Oscars Well.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭Oscars Well.


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    Yes, horses would become extinct.
    He means thoroughbreds...


  • #484
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Oscars Well. wrote: »
    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    Yes, horses would become extinct.
    He means thoroughbreds...

    Thoroughbreds definitely.


  • #485
    Mr.Biscuits
    Closed Accounts Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Mr.Biscuits


    A lot of nonsense posted from people who no doubt tuck into rashers and sausages that come from animals forced to live in atrocious conditions. Ditto for the vast majority of chicken consumed in this country and throughout Europe. Give me the life of a racehorse in the UK any-day over the "life" that they have to endure.

    As for whether or not it should be banned: if it was banned, what would become of all the national hunt racehorses in training? Would they still be housed in such luxurious stables and getting the best veterinarian care that money can buy if they weren't paying their way (with prize money)? Not a chance would they - it would be off to the glue factory with the vast majority of them.

    In short: save your pity for animals that really could do with it. Where it could make a difference and maybe when they're dealt with, then you can start to worry about racehorses that are living the life, albeit on rare occasions, an idyllic life cut somewhat short.


  • #486
    Del2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,162 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    robbie1977 wrote: »
    Its not an arguement what Im saying is people seem to think these horses
    would have a better life if they did'nt have to race and what Im saying is they would'nt because there would'nt be any of them.

    True there are already too many (race) horses which people can't afford to keep and train. If they ban jump racing then there would be no need for them and the best result for the horse is the knackers yard.

    Horse racing is a business, in all businesses non performing assets are disposed of at least costs to the business.


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  • #487
    calfmuscle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    Del2005 wrote: »
    True there are already too many (race) horses which people can't afford to keep and train. If they ban jump racing then there would be no need for them and the best result for the horse is the knackers yard.

    Horse racing is a business, in all businesses non performing assets are disposed of at least costs to the business.

    This is true in some cases, but the majority of owners and trainers either let the horse retire to stud, be kept as a lead horse, companion horse or go on to be used in eventing, showjumping or pleasure riding etc.
    I know a good few people who have given their ex race horses to polo and polo cross yards.

    Its really not just "shot gun and cheque book".

    I've worked in a lot of yards and can say I have only seen an owner send horses to the factory once and that was in New Zealand.


  • #488
    sunnyjo41
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12 ✭sunnyjo41


    my opinion - no should not be banned it what they trained to do - reduction in the amount of entrants for grand national should be reduced as jockies have no room to move


  • #489
    smokedeels
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,883 ✭✭✭smokedeels


    zerks wrote: »
    Lets ban all sports on health & safety grounds:rolleyes:.I hate to be callous but they are only horses.When an animal dies we get all the animal rights loons coming out of the woodwork.

    A footballer in Italy died today from a heart attack while playing for Livorno,should we ban football?

    The horses don't have a choice in the matter


  • #490
    Oscars Well.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭Oscars Well.


    smokedeels wrote: »
    The horses don't have a choice in the matter

    You can't force a horse to race. If they didn't want to race they'd stand still at the start or refuse to jump a fence/hurdle.


  • #491
    smokedeels
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,883 ✭✭✭smokedeels


    Oscars Well. wrote: »
    You can't force a horse to race. If they didn't want to race they'd stand still at the start or refuse to jump a fence/hurdle.

    What happens to a horse that refuses to race?


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  • #492
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    smokedeels wrote: »
    What happens to a horse that refuses to race?
    It gets a verbal warning, if it refuses again it gets a written warning:D


  • #493
    Oscars Well.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭Oscars Well.


    smokedeels wrote: »
    What happens to a horse that refuses to race?

    Nothing... He refuses to race, is brought back to the stables and they'll try again the next time he runs


  • #494
    smokedeels
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,883 ✭✭✭smokedeels


    Oscars Well. wrote: »
    Nothing... He refuses to race, is brought back to the stables and they'll try again the next time he runs

    Is there a point when the owner considers them a lost cause and what would happen to such a horse?


  • #495
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 56,574 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    smokedeels wrote: »
    Is there a point when the owner considers them a lost cause and what would happen to such a horse?
    Become a stud most likely. Or sold off.


  • #496
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,134 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    UrbanSea wrote: »
    This is another ignorant argument.

    If a horse does not want to run, it will not run. Look at King John's Castle in the National. Sariska used to stand in the stalls. Look up a filly named Memory. The list is endless.

    The Jockey is able to weigh up & assess the risk whereas the Horse isn't. It is trained to follow it's riders directions so it depends on the rider to keep it safe.

    The one good thing about these threads is that, when friends ask about the attitude of Ireland towards animal welfare, I can link to threads like this.


  • #497
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,134 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    awec wrote: »
    Become a stud most likely. Or sold off.

    So a Horse that refuses to race & therefore doesn't get a history of wins gets sold off when there is such an oversupply of horses or put to stud :rolleyes:


  • #498
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Oscars Well. wrote: »
    You can't force a horse to race. If they didn't want to race they'd stand still at the start or refuse to jump a fence/hurdle.

    But horses aren't tremendously bright. They don't stand at the start of a race weighing up the likelihood of whether they'll have a fall and break a leg, nor are they aware that if that happens it won't be a happy ending for them. They're animals trained by humans to race. We, as the thinking party should ask ourselves are we willing to put an animal at risk purely for entertainment.


  • #499
    Oscars Well.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭Oscars Well.


    smokedeels wrote: »
    Is there a point when the owner considers them a lost cause and what would happen to such a horse?

    Yes, happened to a pretty high profile horse a few years ago called Sariska. She was a multiple group 1 winner and refused to race a few times and was retired. This was on the flat, not National Hunt btw. The same would apply in NH, but NH horses are gelded so couldn't be used in breeding, apart from the mares who can become broodmares.


  • #500
    Nulty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,843 ✭✭✭Nulty


    Discodog wrote: »
    So a Horse that refuses to race & therefore doesn't get a history of wins gets sold off when there is such an oversupply of horses or put to stud :rolleyes:

    You not talking just about horse racing then. All livestock based industry destroys animals that are not profitable. Whether you think its right or not that is what happens with all animals in livestock industries.


  • #501
    mr.jingle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭mr.jingle


    Discodog wrote: »
    So a Horse that refuses to race & therefore doesn't get a history of wins gets sold off when there is such an oversupply of horses or put to stud :rolleyes:

    So what do you suggest? Slaughter the horse? Sure that's better than cancelling the National:rolleyes:


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  • #502
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Discodog wrote: »
    UrbanSea wrote: »
    This is another ignorant argument.

    If a horse does not want to run, it will not run. Look at King John's Castle in the National. Sariska used to stand in the stalls. Look up a filly named Memory. The list is endless.

    The Jockey is able to weigh up & assess the risk whereas the Horse isn't. It is trained to follow it's riders directions so it depends on the rider to keep it safe.

    The one good thing about these threads is that, when friends ask about the attitude of Ireland towards animal welfare, I can link to threads like this.

    The Grand National is English. You antis have no case. The fact that without horse racing horses would become extinct, or very nearly, is presented time and time again and you refuse to engage. You accuse people who work with horses of being animal haters without cause.


    Its all moot.

    An industry where Ireland is a world leader is not going to change because of a few keyboard warrior vegans


  • #503
    Oscars Well.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭Oscars Well.


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    But horses aren't tremendously bright. They don't stand at the start of a race weighing up the likelihood of whether they'll have a fall and break a leg, nor are they aware that if that happens it won't be a happy ending for them. They're animals trained by humans to race. We, as the thinking party should ask ourselves are we willing to put an animal at risk purely for entertainment.

    No matter how smart an animal is or isn't, they will refuse to do something they don't want to do. A horse will recognise they are on a racetrack and know what they are about to do. Again, we can come back to the argument that thousands of horses run races annually and only a minimal amount sustain fatal injuries, or just injuries for that matter.


  • #504
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    Oscars Well. wrote: »
    You can't force a horse to race. If they didn't want to race they'd stand still at the start or refuse to jump a fence/hurdle.

    But horses aren't tremendously bright. They don't stand at the start of a race weighing up the likelihood of whether they'll have a fall and break a leg, nor are they aware that if that happens it won't be a happy ending for them. They're animals trained by humans to race. We, as the thinking party should ask ourselves are we willing to put an animal at risk purely for entertainment.

    Oh FFS. you the "thinking party" of mediocre smug vegans wouldn't know one end of a horse from another.


  • #505
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    Oh FFS. you the "thinking party" of mediocre smug vegans wouldn't know one end of a horse from another.

    Throwing insults doesn't do much to persuade me to your side of the argument.


  • #506
    smokedeels
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,883 ✭✭✭smokedeels


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    The Grand National is English. You antis have no case. The fact that without horse racing horses would become extinct, or very nearly, is presented time and time again and you refuse to engage. You accuse people who work with horses of being animal haters without cause.


    Its all moot.

    An industry where Ireland is a world leader is not going to change because of a few keyboard warrior vegans

    I don't see what diet has to do with it, personally I don't eat meat but I don't argue for animal slaughter to end - only a fantasist would bother to - I just don't avail of it.

    I guess I have the same stance in regardless to sports that use animals, but I would hope that the industry operates with the animals best interests in mind, which is far from moot, it's a worthwhile conversation.


  • #507
    mongoman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 669 ✭✭✭mongoman


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Should horse racing be banned?

    Yes.


  • #508
    TeddyTedson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭TeddyTedson


    The Grand National is a bit of a disgrace nowadays I think. It's four miles long for christ sake with 30 jumps. They should at least half the race. Nobody really enjoys the long draw out part of it anyway.
    Watching it yesterday I was almost squeamish at every jump.
    I've really gone off it. I don't thinking anyone can really argue that it's not cruel.
    To stress before someone slate me I'm not for banning it completely, but changes could and should be made.


  • #509
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Oscars Well. wrote: »
    No matter how smart an animal is or isn't, they will refuse to do something they don't want to do. A horse will recognise they are on a racetrack and know what they are about to do. Again, we can come back to the argument that thousands of horses run races annually and only a minimal amount sustain fatal injuries, or just injuries for that matter.

    But horses are trained from an early age. Get an animal young enough and you can make it do all sorts of ridiculous things. I appreciate the vast number of races pass without incident but I just don't like the thought of an animal suffering an accident and having to be put down through something that's solely for human entertainment.


  • #510
    mr.jingle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭mr.jingle


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    An industry where Ireland is a world leader is not going to change because of a few keyboard warrior vegans

    Most of them are more than likely not even vegans tucking into there nice Sunday roast FFS, a joke thread made by people who don't have a clue what goes on in horse racing and make there mind up because they lost €2 on one Saturday of the year.

    Yes two horses died in what was actually accidental circumstances one was brought down the other injured itself after falling and running off loose. Yes the National brings the added danger but the horses are trained accordingly the don't just turn up and be told to jump them fences they are specifically trained over fences such as the ones they jumped on Saturday. They have tried to make it safer and as has been said there the have dropped the fatality rate in the 2000's. Horses die day in day out just like people do thats life so to speak so get over it!


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  • #511
    mystika121
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 180 ✭✭mystika121


    Oscars Well. wrote: »
    Nothing... He refuses to race, is brought back to the stables and they'll try again the next time he runs

    Put 'Jockey headbutts horse' into YouTube to get an idea of what can happen to a horse when there is trouble at the start of a race!


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