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Should horse racing be banned?

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Comments

  • #452
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,561 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    xzanti wrote: »
    I didn't watch the race, I don't watch racing at all but I've heard it brought up in conversations (was at a 30th last night and it was a popular topic) that the horse looked nervous and agitated at the beginning of the race..
    Ok, back to the little fat cob again.You should see him dance and shy when he is out waiting to start at a cross country competition.I'm sure to a person who knows nothing about horses that he looks "nervous and agitated". Yes, he is agitated, raring to go, not because he doesn't want to, so much so that he hardly waits his turn.If I wanted to ascribe a feeeling to him it would be "yipeeee" but I can't honestly say it's what he's thinking. I think people are applying too many of their imagined human feelings to a horse.


  • #453
    mystika121
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 180 ✭✭mystika121


    I have to say I totally disagree that a horse cannot be forced to do something that he does not want to do.

    It's a daily occurrence for most people who work with horses to have to find a way to encourage a horse to do something that he doesn't want to do.

    Most horses try their best for an owner/rider and their schooling has ensured that they often have to trust their rider over their own instincts.


  • #454
    kfallon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,775 ✭✭✭✭kfallon


    xzanti wrote: »
    Humans

    So? Do you think none of them should have played because of nerves? Athletes, whether human or equine, get nerves before a big event, it's not uncommon. You often see horses sweat before big races but still run their race.


  • #455
    xzanti
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 10,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭xzanti


    kfallon wrote: »
    Got stats to back that up?

    A quick Google search as yielded this..
    The deaths of According To Pete and Synchronised bring the number of horses killed at the Grand National in the past 50 years to 36. Including Saturday’s deaths, 41 horses have been killed on UK racecourses this year.

    41 in 50 years, while not astronomical, in my eyes is a significant loss of life for the sake of entertainment.


  • #456
    Seamus145
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 ✭Seamus145


    No


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  • #457
    kfallon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,775 ✭✭✭✭kfallon


    mystika121 wrote: »
    I have to say I totally disagree that a horse cannot be forced to do something that he does not want to do.

    look at the GN start in 2010 and King John's Castle.

    Watch Sariska in the Yorkshire Oaks 2010


  • #458
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,598 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    xzanti wrote: »
    A quick Google search as yielded this..



    41 in 50 years, while not astronomical, in my eyes is a significant loss of life for the sake of entertainment.

    41 on UK tracks this year. Not 50 years.


  • #459
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    xzanti wrote: »
    A quick Google search as yielded this..



    41 in 50 years, while not astronomical, in my eyes is a significant loss of life for the sake of entertainment.

    36 have died in 50 years of the National. 36 out of 2000+ runners is not a huge number


  • #460
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,320 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    xzanti wrote: »
    No, I am a meat eater.. but I don't watch cows being slaughtered for entertainment on a Sunday afternoon.. I know that animals die every day on farms and in abattoirs.. but they are killed for food, not for sport..

    I think there is a difference..

    Again, let me reiterate, I know they don't ALL die on the track.. but it seems to be quite common.



    They are killed for your enjoyment. You don't eat them simply because they are food, you eat because you enjoy the taste. You could easily survive without meat, but you don't want to. 6 horses die per 1,000 horses in steeple-chase racing, I don't think that alot. Not to menion how many horses would be killed if they did ban horse racing? People simply wouldn't be able to keep them.


  • #461
    mystika121
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 180 ✭✭mystika121


    There is a huge difference between a little cob about to tackle a cross country course and a tb about to race. If the little cob suffered a very bad experience on a cross country course and was then asked to repeat the experience again then the 'yippee' feeling might be somewhat diminished.


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  • #462
    kfallon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,775 ✭✭✭✭kfallon


    xzanti wrote: »
    41 in 50 years, while not astronomical, in my eyes is a significant loss of life for the sake of entertainment.

    It's 36 in 50 years, that's 36 from around 2,000 runners. I agree it's 36 too many and as I said I'm not a fan of the GN.

    It's 41 in UK racecourses this year, how many runners have there been in that period?


  • #463
    xzanti
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 10,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭xzanti


    Deleted User wrote: »
    41 on UK tracks this year. Not 50 years.

    Mea culpa, I read it wrong..

    Even worse.


  • #464
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    xzanti wrote: »
    Mea culpa, I read it wrong..

    Even worse.

    Yet still a ridiculously small percentage to runners.


  • #465
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,561 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    mystika121 wrote: »
    There is a huge difference between a little cob about to tackle a cross country course and a tb about to race. If the little cob suffered a very bad experience on a cross country course and was then asked to repeat the experience again then the 'yippee' feeling might be somewhat diminished.
    Apart from breeding and a bigger girth, no, not really.:D
    I know he isn't in fear from a bad experience as I know his history from the day he foaled. He adores being out at cross country, once there are no sheep too close at hand.And no matter what I try, he just will not hack out past a field of sheep,so I can encourage him to do things like go on the bit, but no amount of encouragement will make him pass the sheep. anyway, not really meaning to get into his foibles, but my point stands,a horse will not do things unless he wants to-whether as you think-to please the rider or otherwise.


  • #466
    Nulty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,843 ✭✭✭Nulty


    From Paul Bittar - Chief Executive of the British Horseracing Authority
    It is important these matters be judged over a period of time. The decade since 2000 was the safest on record for the Grand National with a fatality rate of 1.5 per cent compared to 3.3 per cent at the start of the 1990s.

    The stats say the race is safer than it used to be and horseracing as an industry is trying to make it safer. It will never be sterile. Nothing is without risk. "Theres no such thing as a certainty in horseracing" - or any thing else for that matter.


  • #467
    mystika121
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 180 ✭✭mystika121


    That's sweet about the cob - he sounds like a great chap.

    My point about racehorses though is that frequently in both flat and races over fences you see a horse that won't enter the starting stalls or won't approach the tape. I have only once seen a horse scratched from the race because of this.

    The normal proceedure is for the horse to be blindfolded and led into the stalls or in the case of the steeplechase/hurdle race I have seen on telly a group of course officials chase the horse through the start!

    Now if that's not forcing a horse to do something that he doesn't want to do then I don't know what that could be called.


  • #468
    mystika121
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 180 ✭✭mystika121


    I don't think that the race will ever be banned and I think only token efforts are made each year to improve safety.

    When Best Mate died (Best Mate collapsed and died of a suspected heart attack after being pulled up by jockey Paul Carberry whilst competing in the William Hill Haldon Gold Cup at Exeter Racecourse on November 1, 2005.) I always remember his trainer Henrietta Knight, who I had huge respect for saying that where there is livestock there is deadstock. I was shocked at the time but I feel that it sums up how the racing world feels about horses.

    There will always be injuries and fatalities in racing and I believe that the racing world accepts that. It is only when people within the racing world complains that any lasting changes will be made.


  • #469
    kfallon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,775 ✭✭✭✭kfallon


    mystika121 wrote: »
    I don't think that the race will ever be banned and I think only token efforts are made each year to improve safety.

    When Best Mate died I always remember his trainer Henrietta Knight, who I had huge respect for saying that where there is livestock there is deadstock. I was shocked at the time but I feel that it sums up how the racing world feels about horses.

    There will always be injuries and fatalities in racing and I believe that the racing world accepts that. It is only when people within the racing world complains that any lasting changes will be made.

    Just to clarify, Best Mate died from a heart attack and not from running/jumping in The Grand National


  • #470
    calfmuscle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    Seomra Mushie wrote: »
    I find this thread interesting because it's amazing how defensive some defenders of horse-racing are, to the point of getting stroppy and insulting people. Why so defensive? If you are assured in your position, why?

    People in racing get defensive because they love their animals, they love their jobs and they love racing. Yet people ignorant (Lacking knowledge, information or awareness about something in particular:) of racing come out every so often and accuse them of being cruel, heartless and motivated by money alone. You have to make sacrifices to work in racing and its hard graft day in day out. The wages are s**t* in fact a lot of the work involves s**t* but you get up every morning and do your work because of the love of horses. So its pretty annoying to listen to people who dont have a clue accuse you of being rich toff or a cruel jockey!
    Huntley wrote: »
    Makes for interesting reading from somebody who describes horse racing as "seeing animals forced to run and whipped for people's entertainment".

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=71230251

    That is hilarious! I remember being so annoyed when reading those comments!


  • #471
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,658 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    calfmuscle wrote: »
    People in racing get defensive because they love their animals, they love their jobs and they love racing. Yet people ignorant (Lacking knowledge, information or awareness about something in particular:) of racing come out every so often and accuse them of being cruel, heartless and motivated by money alone...its pretty annoying to listen to people who dont have a clue accuse you of being rich toff or a cruel jockey!

    It's arrogant to assume people who don't share or opinions are ignorant or don't know what they're talking about.


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  • #472
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,561 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Everyone is entitled to an opinion, however ill-informed it is, however,people pontificating on the self same subject,whilst knowing nothing about it are likely to be challenged.


  • #473
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,658 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion, however ill-informed it is, however,people pontificating on the self same subject,whilst knwoing nothing about it are likely to be challenged.

    which could be said for either side of the debate


  • #474
    calfmuscle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    It's arrogant to assume people who don't share or opinions are ignorant or don't know what they're talking about.

    Its not arrogant its fact, If I tell you 2 + 2 = 4 and you argue its 5, then you are ignorant of basic summation.


  • #475
    losthorizon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭losthorizon


    Da Shins Kelly wrote: »
    This comes up every year after the Grand National. I don't think racing in general should be banned, but I wouldn't miss the Grand National if it was gone. I like a bet from time to time, but there's too many horses in the field and the fences are just ridiculously big. I know it's meant to be the ultimate test, but it just ends up as complete carnage with horses dying almost every year.

    Synchronized won the Gold Cup at Cheltenham last month, and had to be destroyed today which is gutting and such a waste of a promising horse (eerily, the horse threw off Tony McCoy before the race, and seemed very stressed beforehand). Then According To Pete, who was jumping beautifully throughout didn't even fall, but was brought down by another horse. This is a horse bred and raised by a man at his home in Yorkshire. The same man said that he didn't expect the horse to win, but to just put in a good show and come home safely. It's a terribly sad story.

    Over 20 horses have died in the Grand National since 2000. If they scrapped the thing after this, I wouldn't object.


    One of the most intelligent posts Ive read. Nothing against Horse racing or over Hurdles or Jumps but I think that the Grand National is too much.

    WE are an Intelligent species - we don't need this. I used to enjoy watching it. Now it just disgusts me.


    Surely Trainers and Jockeys must think the same? They work with these gifted animals all the time.


  • #476
    slowmoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 561 ✭✭✭slowmoe


    If you lower the jumps you make the race faster, speed is just as dangerous as height in a horse race. I wish there were fewer horses in the race, so sad when one takes another out. I'm amazed that the jockeys aren't getting killed


  • #477
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    I don't understand why I can't have an opinion on horse racing because I don't watch it..

    Personally I don't understand why people endanger an animal for entertainment.


  • #478
    Oscars Well.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭Oscars Well.


    Banning it would be ridiculous. Only a very small percentage of horses sustain injuries on the track. Do you really think people that watch one ten minute race a year know or care more about horses than those that look after them 365 days a year? :rolleyes:


  • #479
    Juwwi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,266 ✭✭✭Juwwi


    Do people who want horse racing banned think all the horses would
    live in fields and have a better life than racing each other.

    The reality is without horse racing these horses would'nt of been breed
    so they would never of existed.

    What is better for them being born as a racehorse or never be born.


  • #480
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    robbie1977 wrote: »
    Do people who want horse racing banned think all the horses would
    live in fields and have a better life than racing each other.

    The reality is without horse racing these horses would'nt of been breed
    so they would never of existed.

    What is better for them being born as a racehorse or never be born.

    That a serious argument?


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  • #481
    Juwwi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,266 ✭✭✭Juwwi


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    That a serious argument?


    Its not an arguement what Im saying is people seem to think these horses
    would have a better life if they did'nt have to race and what Im saying is they would'nt because there would'nt be any of them.


This discussion has been closed.
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