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Beginner running question - tight muscles, no energy

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭Promac


    YFlyer wrote: »
    The few days off had a bearing on your body. You probably became more flat.

    Train most days to get your body accustomed to running. Active recovery such as an easy few Km be better then complete rest.

    You need 'miles in your legs'. Build up slowly though.

    Today is Monday, I last ran on Friday. I don't understand the term "more flat" so I've no idea if you're right nor not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭Promac


    People are saying I have a bad attitude but as far as I can tell I'm just asking for advice, beyond the idea that I "just had a bad day". However I'm quite autistic so I can't say if I'm not doing smiley faces and all that usual guff that people seem to need. I thought my request was fairly straightforward.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭az2wp0sye65487


    Promac wrote: »
    I'm not an experienced athlete. I do run. I like training, I like entering races, and I like talking about it. Boards is a great place to swap ideas, stories etc. with others who are of a similar mindset.

    I don't personally know any other posters here, so I can't vouch for anyone. What I can say is that having gotten advice here in the past, it's usually sound.

    Being aggressive, sarcastic and dismissive towards people who aren't giving you the answer you're looking for isn't really going to get you anywhere though, is it?

    Having said all that what exactly were you expecting me to say to "Maybe it was something to do with your bad attitude"?

    I wasn't expecting much tbh. And look what I got!

    I said that to highlight the issue.

    Anyway, back on topic. You won't get the correct answer (or the answer you're looking for) here as we don't have much information about you, your fitness levels, bodily functions, diet, age, athletic capabilities, history etc etc etc. even if we had all the relevant data - I doubt there are many people here who could or would be willing to make a diagnosis.

    You're looking for a scientific explanation. Go to a professional who can run tests and give you an answer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Promac wrote: »
    Today is Monday, I last ran on Friday. I don't understand the term "more flat" so I've no idea if you're right nor not.

    Lower in energy.

    You need to run more regularly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭AntiVirus


    Promac wrote: »
    Yeah, I do about 5 minutes of warm-ups before heading out - light burpees and the like to warm up muscles. I don't think stretching before a run is good for you so I don't do it.

    Yes, I should have said some light stretching.

    It's very hard to pin point exactly what caused your bad run. We've all been there and while I don't agree with the term "just a bad run", there's always a reason.

    It can be as simple as being in the right mood or motivation while running, its very easy to feel something is wrong when in fact nothing is wrong. Your mind can play all kinds of tricks to get you to stop. Or even an on coming cold, flu etc.. or a restless night sleep, even though you've thought you had a good nights sleep. Even something a simple a weather conditions/temperature/wind could affect your run today. Maybe even a lack of fuel before your run?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭Promac


    YFlyer wrote: »
    Lower in energy.

    You need to run more regularly.

    More regularly than twice in 3 days? So... every day?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭Promac


    I wasn't expecting much tbh. And look what I got!

    I said that to highlight the issue.

    Anyway, back on topic. You won't get the correct answer (or the answer you're looking for) here as we don't have much information about you, your fitness levels, bodily functions, diet, age, athletic capabilities, history etc etc etc. even if we had all the relevant data - I doubt there are many people here who could or would be willing to make a diagnosis.

    You're looking for a scientific explanation. Go to a professional who can run tests and give you an answer.

    The issue is me having a bad run - unless you think the issue is my response to your post? That's extremely self-centered.

    If you'd like more information just ask. I started the thread - I'm hardly going to hold back on information. I'm not going to a professional - If that was a viable option I wouldn't have posted on a forum like this would I? Isn't that completely obvious??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭Promac


    AntiVirus wrote: »
    Yes, I should have said some light stretching.

    It's very hard to pin point exactly what caused your bad run. We've all been there and while I don't agree with the term "just a bad run", there's always a reason.

    That's exactly what I'm talking about - why is that so hard for other people here? I only posted the thread in the first place because I thought someone here might have an idea what the reason is for "just a bad run".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭az2wp0sye65487


    Promac wrote: »

    The issue is me having a bad run - unless you think the issue is my response to your post? That's extremely self-centered.

    If you'd like more information just ask. I started the thread - I'm hardly going to hold back on information. I'm not going to a professional - If that was a viable option I wouldn't have posted on a forum like this would I? Isn't that completely obvious??

    There's no point in asking for more info as I explained above. The question you're asking is one that can't really be answered here. It would be like going to the 'motors' forum and saying "my car cut out this morning... Any ideas why??" you would be told to take it to a mechanic to diagnose the problem.

    The best advice you'll get here is (bearing in mind you are looking for a scientific answer) that if you step back and look at it coldly.... Your body is like a finely tuned machine... It requires various things in order to perform at the most efficient levels. The correct fuel (food and water), maintenance, repairs etc. but keep in mind that external factors can impact performance too...

    Did you run a new route with more hills? Were you wearing different shoes? Did you have a drink over the weekend? Did your Wendy's burger upset your stomach? Are you sure you were properly hydrated? Did you sleep well? Are you coming down with a cold? Any underlying medical issues? .....

    The list goes on.

    I'm not looking for an argument. Just trying to make you realise that people here will be more willing to help if you are civil.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Promac wrote: »
    More regularly than twice in 3 days? So... every day?

    Six days a week. Have easy days after harder days. Built up to it slowly over a few weeks.

    Running with get easier then.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭Promac


    By your own admission you're not an experienced athlete and you pitch in with this kind of statement:
    Maybe it was something to do with your bad attitude

    Again - what exactly do you expect me to say to you? You call that "civil"?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭az2wp0sye65487


    Promac wrote: »
    By your own admission you're not an experienced athlete and you pitch in with this kind of statement:
    Maybe it was something to do with your bad attitude

    Again - what exactly do you expect me to say to you? You call that "civil"?

    Best of luck with your running in the future


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭Promac


    Best of luck with your running in the future

    Awesome - thanks for your "contributions".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,932 ✭✭✭huskerdu


    Promac wrote: »
    You call that helpful in the face of what I've already said?

    Some people are more scientific than that. I've tried to demonstrate that I'm one of them. "Get over it".

    If you genuinely want to think scientifically about it, you need to accept one of the first rules of science - you have to reproduce the problem. You don't learn what caused something by observing the problem only once.

    I have tried to guess that the reason why you felt flat was that you ate too much fatty heavy food the night before and I also said that you might never know why it happened.

    Keep running, if you are regularly feeling flat, look for a pattern.
    If it seems to be random, accept that some very experienced runners here have told you that you cant always find the answer and move on.

    I hope this helps. I doubt that you will get any more answers with the rude tone of your last few posts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,410 ✭✭✭ger664


    There are just too many variables that can cause a bad flat run. We all get them from time to time. It can be lack of sleep, bad hydration, too many beers the weekend, wife/kids/husband/boss (delete appropriate) giving you a hard time. The list is endless.

    When it happens for a couple of runs on the trot then get worried and seek professional advice. Most people here are and I include myself are not really qualified to definitely say what the problem was, and have just given our own experiences on it which was answered on the first reply to this thread.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,454 ✭✭✭Clearlier


    Unbelievable that this one trundles on.

    OP - From the information given the burger the night before is the culprit. It takes time and energy to digest that kind of food and for my own body if I eat that kind of food I know that it's going to have an impact. If that's your typical diet and you rarely eat carbohydrates then there's an outside chance you might be running short on glycogen. Given that you're running up to 6k at 6:30mins/km pace though I seriously, seriously doubt it.

    There are a multitude of other potential reasons but realistically if you want to get serious about running you need to move on from this and seriously up your training levels. Not in one day or one week but over an extended period of time focus on the frequency of your runs and their duration. Do some faster stuff once a week - whatever you feel like - just get your legs to turn over a bit faster. Add in some cross training too - if you used to box then you should have a multitude of core sessions that you can pick and choose from.

    P.S. However much you may dislike it the attitude that people are referring too is shouting out from most of your posts. Rugby rather than running is where I originally come from. In my experience the best players were generally the humblest - I'm seeing the same in running too. It's probably just your writing style but it puts people's backs up and it reduces your chances of getting a positive response.

    Good luck with the running!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭BrokenMan


    One of those days is the correct answer here,and if you don't like that well that's fair enough, however your dismissive answers to people genuinely trying to help you has led to some of the later replies.

    No one can give you an answer as to why you had this bad run, we are all an experiment of one.

    You say that you dont accept it being one of those days and that your sceintific mind demands an answer, well it just so happens that I have a bit of a scientific mind as well. Now no one would ever attempt to make a scientific conclusion based on a single observations, would they?

    So what you need to do is keep a very detailed log of everything you do, food you eat, amount of sleep you get, resting HR every morning, bowel movements, urine couour (to determine hydration levels), what stress and pressure you are under in every aspect of your day. Then log the time/duration and speed of every run you do. Running by feel isn't good enough here you will need exact data, get a garmin and HRM.
    Now record after every run rate on a scale of 1-10 your percieved effort for the run and any other data relevant (wind speed and direction, gradient, temperature, etc)
    After a couple of months you may have had one or two more bad runs in there, now you have somethign to look back over, are there any commonalities in the days leading up to these? Similar temperature, HR, wind speeds, alignment of planets?

    Keep gathering this information for 12 months and then do a full statistical analysis on the results. You might, just might be able to see a pattern emerging.

    Alternatively you could just take on the advice you already got and put it down to one of those days, as we all do, and go out tomorrow and have a great stress free run. Seriously one bad run every so often isn't worth getting worried about it could be a combination of a dozen tiny things, repeated bad runs would need looking into.

    Personally I know which one I'll be doing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,563 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    You say you are not a beginner athlete yet you think a Wendy burger meal counts as 'fuel'. That strikes me as strange. Then again, I've only been involved in athletics for 12 years representing my country along the way.

    I tend to agree with most of you guys saying it's just an off day. But, the wendy's buger thing. Why can't that be fuel?

    I have been on runs where some days after a mile I am fit to be put down, and other days after a mile I am only warming up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,563 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    OP, I am a fairly precise kind of guy and attentive to detail, but your query I would put down to a one off. Maybe sore/tired legs, maybe slept a bit funny, dodgy burger the night before etc etc. Even magically if you could look inside your body on that day, inside every muscles etc, you may not find anything out of the ordinary.

    You could have come down with a very slight bug that didn't even present any symptons that day, yet it was enough to trigger a response to your running. I assume your warm up on this "bad" day was as it usually is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭Promac


    I do a lot of photography in my spare time. Used to do it professionally too. If someone came back from a shoot with a photo that was really off and they didn't know why (due to lack of experience) I'd be able to look at it and tell them what happened and what they needed to do to fix the problem. If I didn't know I wouldn't say "it's just a bad day, no reason for it" because I know that's not true - not knowing the answer and saying the answer is unknowable are two completely different things. I wouldn't expect to be able to formulate a hypothesis and develop it into a theory after only 1 photograph but I would assume that someone with more experience than me would already have encountered and figured out the problem so I'd go and ask people with more experience. Photography isn't as black-box as the human body but it's a complicated system that takes a long time to master so the comparison is valid.

    When it comes to running problems like this I assumed that, since people have been running since legs were invented, someone would have experience of the problem I had and would have an explanation for it.

    I wasn't trying to insult or dismiss anyone, I'm just not going to gush with thanks for someone telling me to just forget about it. The whole concept of "ah sure who knows, don't think about it" is completely against any kind of scientific thinking and if we all took that approach we'd still be swinging from trees.

    If you're so precious that you can't handle someone disagreeing with you or being a bit sarcastic then you should probably avoid the internet (or people in general). You really shouldn't start having a go at someone on a board like this because they probably won't respond well to it - just like I did with myflipflops and his "don't you know who I am" approach. Or steviecakes with his comment "Maybe it was something to do with your bad attitude". That's pure irony from steviecakes.

    If you don't like anything I say then you're more than welcome to ignore me. I won't mind. In fact, I'll most likely be grateful if you did.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭PaulieC


    To be fair, photography is 100s, if not 1000s of times less complex than the human body. And science isn't even evolved enough to know what causes a stitch, so while you weren't happy with the 'bad day' answers, they are probably as good as it gets.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    Promac wrote: »
    If you're so precious that you can't handle someone disagreeing with you or being a bit sarcastic then you should probably avoid the internet (or people in general).

    Is this part directed at yourself or at others? Because from where I'm sitting, you're the only one with your knickers in a twist.

    One question; are your normal attempts at trolling better than this one?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭spurscormac


    I've tried not to respond to this one, but with the latest comparison to photography, I just can't leave it go.

    Promac, no offence, I'm far from a good photographer, but you can't possibly compare troubleshooting a bad photo with the complexity of why your body didn't perform to your expected levels on one specific morning.
    Firstly, take a photograph, you have physical evidence that can help you diagnose what was wrong, such as slight blurs, sections out of focus, colour levels etc, and in the case of digital photos you have tons of extra info such as shutter speed, aperture, ISO, zoom info, etc etc, which all contribute to determining what might have been wrong with that articular photo.

    Now look again at your off day - do you have any snapshot of your heart rate, blood pressure, sugar levels to help you?
    Have you got a detailed record of all the bugs and viruses that may have been in your body at the time and possibly contributing to a below par run?
    Did you notice the colour of your urine before you went for your run to assess how hydrated you were?

    All these points have been mentioned, and more, so unless you start to record as much info as possible about every run, then start to see a trend in a specific area when you have a bad day, there's no way to determine why one random day was bad.

    Having said all that, there have been days I've gone for a run, felt crap for a mile, considered calling it quits but carried on. Sometimes after another mile I feel much better and finish with having a good overall run.
    Other times I still feel crap that mile further, call it quits & just say I'll go out again when I feel better.

    Some of the soundest advice you'll get is to listen to your body - if you're not feeling 100% - it's telling you that it doesn't have the ability to be pushed at that particular time.

    I know of people who felt crap, but continued to train cos they were committed to a particular training plan, or refused to pull out of a race they started, and ended up injuring themselves & being out of action for months when they should have just packed up and gone home.

    I think from whats been discussed on this thread you have two options...

    1. Get extremely scientific about recording as much info as possible & map your performance to these attributes to determine causes of bad performance.

    or

    2. Begin to learn to listen to your body.

    Take your pick.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭Promac


    I've tried not to respond to this one, but with the latest comparison to photography, I just can't leave it go.

    Promac, no offence, I'm far from a good photographer, but you can't possibly compare troubleshooting a bad photo with the complexity of why your body didn't perform to your expected levels on one specific morning.

    You're right. I'm not comparing those things at all. I was comparing the ability of someone experienced to point out a mistake to a beginner based on experience of the same mistake. It's why people with little experience go to people with lots of experience to ask for advice about specific problems. Is it not obvious that's what I was doing? Why would I compare running to photography? Makes no sense.

    Edit:
    Just in case you need an example to understand what I'm talking about. Let's say someone starts running barefoot (or in minimalist shoes). They start running on the balls of their feet instead of heel-striking and they end up with sore calf muscles and achilles tendons. Noob mistake, easily fixed - bend your knees more and relax your calf muscles. Nothing massively complicated here to try to understand. Simple cause and effect.


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